Green uber tank crews?

[Lt Bull]

Following on from the well read discussion Uber tank crews? that featured this video....

A number of people questioned whether the video in the initial thread was representative/typical of what to expect from tank crews bailing out in close proximity to enemy infantry:

ie. yeah but don't expect it to happen too often, yeah but that tank crew may have been Elite, yeah but the infantry were outnumbered, yeah but the infantry were green and pinned from the start, yeah but [some other dismissive excuse unbacked by any evidence].

It just happens that a similar, just as telling incident under similar circumstances just happened again during a turn I last played in a second PBEM game I am playing against the same player I was playing against in the first video. He is aware of my original post and may yet add his own perspective on things to both situations.

Here now is CMBN 2.1: Green uber tank crews

Regardless, the incidents I have posted are not "the outliner exceptions" that have occurred during our games when infantry have bailed from tanks close to infantry. Having tanks engaged at such close range by infantry and having them bail out so close to infantry is the exception anyway. We just happened to have had it happen twice in the two concurrent PBEM games we are playing and the uber tank crew behavior seems evident.

These are not the exceptions from dozens of other similar situations I chose not to show. This is all we have seen when crew have bailed so close to infantry.

I may ask my opponent to perhaps have the game reprocess those turns a few times and see what happens. I am sure we can replicate the tanks being attacked and hit by the shape charged AT weapons again quite easily.

Comments?

PS: Has anyone ever seen a tank crew immediately surrender in similar circumstances? As has been suggested, I think this should be what happens in the majority of these circumstances.

[womble]

PS: Has anyone ever seen a tank crew immediately surrender in similar circumstances?

No. Excellent point. If "uber crew" are the outliers in one direction, "sissy crew" who throw up their hands at the moment of bail would seem to be the outlier (at least) in the other direction, so it should be seen at least sometimes, and no one has ever popped up with an anecdote of that occurrence, that I can remember.

I don't think it's going to happen with current morale rules, either, unless the tank's been under fire (from something like a popgun ATG or an AA cannon that can't quite kill it but can really make the turret ring) for several turns. "Most" tank crew will be "OK" or "Cautious" when their ride gets geeked, and won't have been battered enough to get into "Surrender" territory, so will either kill or be killed.

[Freyberg]

In CMFI-GL, I had some engineers kill a StuG in a vinyard. The two remaining crew immediately surrendered. White flag same move.

[Nelson 1812]

Same here...

[Lt Bull]

Same here...

I personally can not recall ever witnessing that before. In fact, I even think tank crew should be able to surrender from within the tank, or at least exit the tank already surrendering ie. not armed, not panicked, not trying to run away.

Given the same situation shown in the video, roughly what % of times would you think the green tank crew would/should be expected to at least ATTEMPT to surrender like that? 10% of the time? 20% 40% 75%?

Do you think it should at least be more frequent than the heroic shoot outs you see in the video?

[Oddball_E8]

I personally can not recall ever witnessing that before. In fact, I even think tank crew should be able to surrender from within the tank, or at least exit the tank already surrendering ie. not armed, not panicked, not trying to run away.

Given the same situation shown in the video, roughly what % of times would you think the green tank crew would/should be expected to at least ATTEMPT to surrender like that? 10% of the time? 20% 40% 75%?

Do you think it should at least be more frequent than the heroic shoot outs you see in the video?

I have seen it plenty of times... well, at least when my infantry doesn't cut down the crew as they exit the tank.

Never had a tank crew pose much of a problem for me tho...

[Redwolf]

I don't mind the tank crews fighting back as such.

But how do fewer men with pistols and no infantry training defeat more soldiers with mixed weapons and infantry training that at least will make them use cover more effectively?

That is why I have pointed people in previous "tank crew problem?" threads to "pistol problem?" threads.

Anybody who has been in the Bundeswehr at least knows that the last shot out of the P8 is the most useful one - the throw.

[Nelson 1812]

I personally can not recall ever witnessing that before. In fact, I even think tank crew should be able to surrender from within the tank, or at least exit the tank already surrendering ie. not armed, not panicked, not trying to run away.

Given the same situation shown in the video, roughly what % of times would you think the green tank crew would/should be expected to at least ATTEMPT to surrender like that? 10% of the time? 20% 40% 75%?

Do you think it should at least be more frequent than the heroic shoot outs you see in the video?

Think it may have been a first for me too!

Cannot comment on this really, have not come across this as a problem, except for the above surrender that surprised me. Although if in close proximity to an infantry unit surrender must be the most likely outcome... except if your on the Russian front.

[poesel]

Anybody who has been in the Bundeswehr at least knows that the last shot out of the P8 is the most useful one - the throw.

Ha! I was instructed to - when the Russians came - I should disassemble it and throw the parts. Thus I could get more than 1 try.

Btw IIRC its the P1 not the P8