Buddy Aid and Spotter?

[weapon2010]

My 3 man spotter team took a near hit and my radio man was killed.Eventhough he was dead I was still allowed to call in air airstrike.Is this simulating one of the other two men left in the spotting team grabbing the operable radio and using it?

I noticed one of the men performing buddy aid, will he aquire the radio?

Does the game simulate randomness in wether or not the radio gets destroyed?

[Oddball_E8]

I think the game simply assigns the "radio" ability to the unit and not an individual soldier.

So even tho the guy with the radio on him is killed, the unit still has the radio ability.

[Michael Emrys]

My 3 man spotter team took a near hit and my radio man was killed.Eventhough he was dead I was still allowed to call in air airstrike.Is this simulating one of the other two men left in the spotting team grabbing the operable radio and using it?

Probably. Though unless I am mistaken, if the leader of the team gets nailed that's all she wrote: they're out of business.

Michael

[Baneman]

Probably. Though unless I am mistaken, if the leader of the team gets nailed that's all she wrote: they're out of business.

Michael

The same applies to HQ's and C2 - if the "commander" dies, that's it for C2 for that platoon.

Which puzzles me, isn't there supposed to be at least some sort of 2IC ? Chain of command ?

[Michael Emrys]

The same applies to HQ's and C2 - if the "commander" dies, that's it for C2 for that platoon.

Which puzzles me, isn't there supposed to be at least some sort of 2IC ? Chain of command ?

Yes. Normally the platoon sergeant would take over until a replacement officer could arrive.

Michael

[YankeeDog]

Which puzzles me, isn't there supposed to be at least some sort of 2IC ? Chain of command ?

Sure. In most formations, the XO takes over when the CO is hors de combat for whatever reason. One of the reasons for the existence of the XO in the command structure is to provide command redundancy.

But a unit wouldn't be able to just instantly shift to command of the 2IC without some loss of combat effectiveness. Units that lose their CO in CMx2 aren't useless, they're just less effective, which is a pretty good abstraction of this.

Also note that in some cases, CMx2 directly models the shift of command to the 2IC -- for example, in most Company formations, if you lose the Company CO, the XO will immediately take on command responsibilities, and be reflected as such in the game's C2 structure.

[A Canadian Cat]

My 3 man spotter team took a near hit and my radio man was killed.Eventhough he was dead I was still allowed to call in air airstrike.Is this simulating one of the other two men left in the spotting team grabbing the operable radio and using it?

I noticed one of the men performing buddy aid, will he aquire the radio?

Does the game simulate randomness in wether or not the radio gets destroyed?

I have had this happen before. Two things if they stay in the same location they can continue to use the radio - assuming because it is sitting there on the ground so to speak.

Yes buddy aiding can recover the radio - I am pretty sure I have seen this.

The other thing you can do if you find your FO team is radio less is get them another one. By that I mean find a radio equipped jeep or HT and they can use that. I do this often with unhorsed tank HQ units. They can take command of the rest of the platoon if they get to a radio some where. Works for the FO team as well.

[A Canadian Cat]

Probably. Though unless I am mistaken, if the leader of the team gets nailed that's all she wrote: they're out of business.

Michael

Yes, a radio less FO team is not very useful but you can get them access to another radio but if the guy that knows how to correct fire goes down then you are SOL.

I wonder if one FO team that has lost the observer but still has its radio and another FO team that still has its observer but lost its radio would get to get together and get the job done.

[Baneman]

...

Also note that in some cases, CMx2 directly models the shift of command to the 2IC -- for example, in most Company formations, if you lose the Company CO, the XO will immediately take on command responsibilities, and be reflected as such in the game's C2 structure.

Yeah, it's just that it matters most in a platoon situation. Company ... not so much.

I wouldn't object to a time delay, but it would be nice if someone could take over.

I don't know ( since I'm far from a grog ), though, whether the platoon sergeant ( as M Emrys says ) would be part of a squad or the HQ squad ie. if the entire HQ squad is killed, would there still be someone to take over ?

I know that in CM1 where you continued to get C2 from the HQ until everyone was dead was a necessary abstraction, but it CM2, it's completely reversed - everything resides in the noggin of that one guy.

I know, I know, you're going to say "keep him out of trouble", but I do !

My #1 cause of HQ commander deaths is ricocheting AP round burster charges - those things are deadly ! I don't know what they put in them, but I wonder why they don't put that in all other HE munitions.

I've lost guys to those little bangs from 20-40m away, yet an 81mm mortar round lands in the same AS and doesn't even generate a "yellow" wound

Back on topic - I recall a thread from a long way back that also said something along the lines of "everyone in an FO team was trained to the task" - implying that if the FO gets hit, someone else in the team should be able to take over. That would also be useful.

[YankeeDog]

Yeah, it's just that it matters most in a platoon situation. Company ... not so much.

I wouldn't object to a time delay, but it would be nice if someone could take over.

I don't know ( since I'm far from a grog ), though, whether the platoon sergeant ( as M Emrys says ) would be part of a squad or the HQ squad ie. if the entire HQ squad is killed, would there still be someone to take over ?

I know that in CM1 where you continued to get C2 from the HQ until everyone was dead was a necessary abstraction, but it CM2, it's completely reversed - everything resides in the noggin of that one guy.

Actually, many Plt. HQs do have command redundancy in CMBN, but it's modeled a little differently at the Platoon level than it is at Company and higher. Company and higher, you usually have a separate "XO Team" or "HQ Support Team" unit, which contains the XO and will automatically transform into the formation HQ if the Commander gets taken out. This means that if you want to be cautious, you can keep your XO unit well out of harm's way, so that if the Company HQ gets wiped out the XO is safe and ready to take command.

At the platoon level, the redundancy is internal to the HQ unit. Note, for example that most U.S. rifle Platoon HQs (at full strength) incorporate both a "Commander" and an "Executive Officer" in CM. The "Executive Officer" is the "Platoon Sargent" Emrys mentions above. You have to lose both the CO and the XO for the Plt HQ to lose its command functionality -- the XO will take over Commander responsibilities automatically if the CO is lost; it's only if you're down to just the radioman that the Plt. HQ ceases to function as an HQ.

But not all Plt HQs of all nationalities have an XO. For example, in CMBN at least, most German Plt HQs have no XO and therefore no command redundancy. I assume this design decision derives from the fact that by 1944, Germany had eliminated their equivalent of the "Platoon Sargent" from most platoon TOEs -- they simply didn't have enough Junior Officers and senior NCOs to go around so platoons generally got just one junior officer or senior NCO as leader, and no asst. leader.

So this design decision does have some justification. It certainly does make German Platoon C2 structure more brittle, though, and I think you can make an argument that the game punishes the German formations a bit too severely in this specific area.

[akd]

Yes, a radio less FO team is not very useful but you can get them access to another radio but if the guy that knows how to correct fire goes down then you are SOL.

I wonder if one FO team that has lost the observer but still has its radio and another FO team that still has its observer but lost its radio would get to get together and get the job done.

Doesn't matter because loss of radio does prevent an FO from calling for fire.

[Erwin]

So, in the game, does the XO or 2IC take over and provide command benefit when a platoon HQ or Co HQ is KIA?

In all the years I have played CM2, I can't recall ever seeing this happen.

[Baneman]

So, in the game, does the XO or 2IC take over and provide command benefit when a platoon HQ or Co HQ is KIA?

In all the years I have played CM2, I can't recall ever seeing this happen.

From what YD said on the previous page, this should happen for full-strength US platoons - I've never seen it, but have played US only about 20% of my CM2 gaming. Also, being used to it not happening in German formations, I may easily have missed it if/when it did happen in US ones.

I feel a test coming on, but it's not going to be easy to get just the commander shot.

Many pixels will die fruitlessly I fear

[YankeeDog]

So, in the game, does the XO or 2IC take over and provide command benefit when a platoon HQ or Co HQ is KIA?

In all the years I have played CM2, I can't recall ever seeing this happen.

Just tested to double-confirm. Yes; the Platoon Sergeant aka Executive Officer will take over the Command role if the CO is taken out, at least with U.S. Plt. HQs.

Fairly easy to test. Just create a set up where you can have a US Plt. HQ team Hunt around a blind corner of e.g. a high wall, with an enemy MG able to fire on them at fairly close range as soon as they round the corner.

First guy around the corner will get nailed every quickly, usually before the rest of the team is exposed, and as soon as the first guy is hit, the rest of the team will stop, out of the LOF, so they will be safe. Quite often, the CO will be the one in the lead, so it doesn't take many runs of the test to nail the "right guy". I got the result I was looking for on the first try.

Then just observe the changes in C2 (or lack thereof). In my tests, there was no change in the ability of the Plt HQ unit to perform its C2 functions, when the CO was a casualty, but the XO was still alive and well.

Feel free to verify if you'd like.

[akd]

Doesn't matter because loss of radio does prevent an FO from calling for fire.

Lol, that should read "does not."

[Erwin]

Re XO's and 2IC's taking over, only US squads function like that, not other Allied or Axis? Any reason for that?

Also, has anyone experienced a Company CO taking over a leaderless platoon (in terms of the little green lights)?

[akd]

Re XO's and 2IC's taking over, only US squads function like that, not other Allied or Axis? Any reason for that?

Why do you think they don't?

Also, has anyone experienced a Company CO taking over a leaderless platoon (in terms of the little green lights)?

The little green lights always show the status of the normal chain of command sequentially up the chain. If you have a squad selected and see a red X for the platoon HQ, but green light for the company HQ, that means the squad is out of C2 with its platoon HQ, but that platoon HQ is still in C2 with the company HQ. They do no show if a unit is under temporary local command of a higher HQ. You can tell if a squad is under temporary command if the squad shows a broken link to its platoon HQ (i.e. red X), but the squad still has a C2 icon (voice, visual).

[womble]

Doesn't matter because loss of radio does prevent an FO from calling for fire.

No it doesn't. The "support call" privilege remains even with HQs that never had a radioman in the first place. Unless the "Leader" gets geeked.

[Erwin]

"Re XO's and 2IC's taking over, only US squads function like that, not other Allied or Axis? Any reason for that?

Why do you think they don't?"

I don't know... that's why I am asking, akd. If you can't help, why bother posting?

I play a lot of CMSF as well as CMBN and CMFI and IIRC have never seen a Brit 2IC (or US XO) take over when the CO is KIA.

[akd]

No it doesn't. The "support call" privilege remains even with HQs that never had a radioman in the first place. Unless the "Leader" gets geeked.

See my later reply to myself. I left out an essential "not".

[womble]

See my later reply to myself. I left out an essential "not".

So you did. Missed that.