Back, and Questions

[lurrp]

First of all, to any and all who care, I'm back. About a month ago I totally lost interest in WWII, switching to my other interest, Napoleonic Wars. Having picked up some Osprey WWII titles, my interest is renewed, and I am back. Now to the questions. I am planning a scenario, inspired by JonS' guide, and plan to have an ad hoc German Kampfgruppe. I know Kampfgruppes (Kampfgruppen?) tended to be rather improvised formations, but any ideas for a company (+) sized formation, primarily infantry with some armor? Also, did Luftwaffe field divisions fight much in Normandy? If so, how would they best be represented in BfN, and would there be some of these troops in a Kampfgruppe? Thanks.

[db_zero]

IIRC back in the day when I had SPIs monster game Atlantic Wall you had many Luftwaffe ground units to use as cannon fodder. I think a division was moved down from another sector of the AW and got pretty beat up.

[Rokko]

I believe there was only the 16th LW Division in Normandy fighting in the Caen area around Carpiquet airfield but they were pretty much overrun I believe. There were at least two other LW divisions further to the East in the Pas-de-Calais area, not sure if they marched down to Normandy or stayed in place.

[BLSTK]

Luftwaffe field divisions arose in the latter stages of the war as The Axis went on the defensive. As airfield personnel became redundant, they formed the last line of defense for the Third Reich.

[lurrp]

Thanks. The scenario I was planning is fictional, and loosely based around Operation Cobra, more specifically around a fictional village originally held by the Germans but taken by American troops. The player commands a ragged assortment of German troops thrown together to retake the village. Would Luftwaffe troops, perhaps "borrowed" from a nearby airfield, seem out of place?

[db_zero]

Wouldn't be out of place at all. During the Battle of the Buldge cooks and band members were given rifles and sent to the front lines where they were slaughtered, but they served their purpose at the time.

I'm also pretty sure that when the vital port of Cherbourg was under siege many 'non combat' German trops were given weapons and manned defensive positions, so no Luftwaffe troops fighting would not be of of place, but their experience and motivation levels should reflect the fact they are not front line troops and their leaders too should be sub par.

[poesel]

I know Kampfgruppes (Kampfgruppen?)

Singular: Kampfgruppe

Plural: Kampfgruppen

[BLSTK]

We also wouldn't be surprised to see remnants of the once-powerful Kriegsmarine fighting on the ground as the German naval presence declined.

[db_zero]

Another SPI monster game Highway to the Reich had Kreigsmarine units and I'm pretty sure they were in Atlantic Wall too.

[mjkerner]

Wait a bit, you'll see Kriegsmarine in MG module.

[db_zero]

Nice. In the meantime I'll have to watch A Bridge Too Far on DVD. Sometimes I wish they would remake some of the classics like ABTF, Bridge at Remagen, Play Dirty, Tobruk and others, but then again when I see how Hollywood has butchered some of the classics they decided to remake, it may be better to leave them alone.

[Michael Emrys]

Thanks. The scenario I was planning is fictional, and loosely based around Operation Cobra, more specifically around a fictional village originally held by the Germans but taken by American troops. The player commands a ragged assortment of German troops thrown together to retake the village. Would Luftwaffe troops, perhaps "borrowed" from a nearby airfield, seem out of place?

The only Luftwaffe troops involved in Cobra SFAIK were Fallschirmjägers. There were no field divisions on that part of the front at that time. There were quite a few Heer divisions that were pretty well beat up though. Perhaps for your purposes you could use troops from one of those. They would be veterans with normal motivation, but somewhat weary and well understrength.

Michael

[JasonC]

lurrp - as others have stated, on the US part of the front the only Luftwaffe forces you would see would be FJ. They were mostly fought out by the time of Cobra, though. They had been a key part of the force holding off the Americans in the St Lo period, the classic month in the hedgerows. But by the end of July that fighting had pretty much ground them to dust.

As for mixing in armor, the only armor you would be likely to see with FJ troops would be made a few StuGs, and those quite rare. Mostly they were a leg infantry force, with mortar and machinegun heavy weapons, and less than the usual amount of artillery. One formation - only regiment size - was vet, the rest were mostly green at the start of the battle, but fought well.

A force that could expect to have armor directly attached, though, would be more likely to be Heer panzer division forces or SS forces. The main Heer panzer division in the US sector was Panzer Lehr, which was a veteran unit (or better), formed from training cadres. (Think the US "Opfor" trainers going to war - these were the teachers of the German panzer force). Again weakened before Cobra and its remaining armor cut in half in the breakthrough airstrikes, which buried the division position under a blanket of 500 and 1000 pound bombs.

After the Cobra breakout, 2nd Panzer and 116th Panzer were also involved. 2nd was a good formation, 116th was green and didn't fight very well.

The other two mobile formations in the US sector were 2nd SS and 17th SS. 17th SS had been in action since a week after D-Day and was ground down quite a bit. 2nd SS was understrength for a different reason - they reached the front piecemeal and were committed as separate kampgruppen here and there. They were short of transport, and those with enough truck "lift" went first etc.

What would a force from any of the above look like, if mostly infantry but with armor attached? Lehr would be exceptional in actually having SPW halftracks for its infantry - most of the infantry in the others would not. The infantry company would be one of the 2 LMGs per squad varieties, except for 17SS which would have the standard 1 per. The company would have a heavy weapons platoon with 4 HMGs and 2 81mm mortars, on top of the line companies. They might also have enhanced infantry AT in the form of extra Panzerschreck teams, if expecting enemy armor.

For tanks they would have a single platoon, one type only, 4 vehicles would be typical, but it could be 3 to reflect losses etc. The type would be either Panthers or Panzer IVs, but not mixed. A slight chance they might instead have 3 Jagdpanzer IVs or 3 StuGs, but the turreted tanks would be more common in the mobile divisions - 17th SS again excepted, it only had StuGs.

Those would be the main forces, the manuever or line guys. Then there might be odds and ends attachments - a pioneer platoon with flamethrowers, or a section of 2 SPW 251/9s with 75mm guns, or a "Grille" self propelled 150mm sIG. Or one platoon in SPWs - perhaps the smaller 250/1 variety - from the recon battalion. Not all of those, just pick one. Towed gun attachments, PAK or FLAK, you'd see on defense but less so for an counterattack.

Their main artillery support would generally take the form of a single FO with a 105mm battery on call. It might instead be an 81mm mortar battery, or more rarely the big 150mm, but most of the missions for most of the infantry part of the force would be 105mm.

If it were FJ, though, they'd be "poorer" all around. A similar infantry company, no transport vehicles for them (not even trucks), maybe 1-2 StuGs if they are very lucky. 81mm mortar support most likely, an outside chance of 120mm mortar support instead. Maybe a pair of light AA guns, 1-2 75mm PAK if they have no StuGs (one or the other though, not both). No other extras likely.

[BLSTK]

Jason, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I love reading your posts. The moment I see the sender I tell myself: "better grab a second cup of coffee and settle in for a good read."

[LongLeftFlank]

You want a real education, follow Jason's comments on SeekingAlpha. It's about the best investment and economics blog out there.