Allied AAR: A Route to Ribera or "A Bridge Too Far" (CMPzC)

[noob]

@noob: thanks for posting that. I will reply in you rules thread.

Ok, looking forward to discussing it. Also, I think i'm warming to the idea of going back to using PzC morale as a soft factor, simply because it gives Isolation more impact, and, given that PzC morale drops automatically one level when units become Isolated, it shows that morale is not only affected by PzC fatigue levels.

[noob]

Yes it does. I have been over this a few times now. The player that does conduct buddy aid will get a 25% higher yield on average compared to his opponent who doesn't conduct buddy aid - as the latter´s red based soldiers stand a chance to become KIA at end screen. How does that not encourage a player to conduct buddy aid if he wants to keep his casualties as low as possible?

Telling players exactly how CM applies buddy aid usage to the WIA readout after a battle "might" encourage them to use it, but the 25% WIA recovery that you manually subtract from the WIA number does not encourage buddy aid, as that is given to players irrespective of whether they use buddy aid or not.

The only way the manual 25% WIA recovery could encourage buddy aid, would be if one could know if a player used it or not. Then, you could say that if you use it you get a reward, if you do not, you don't. Even better would be to know how many times a player uses it, then you could give a reward for every time it is used, i.e. 5% WIA back for one use of buddy aid. However, because the AAR screen does not indicate anything about buddy aid usage, one would have to rely on the honesty of the players when they claim their buddy aid bonuses. Of course, these rewards would all be on top of what CM gives you back for using buddy aid.

[Fizou]

Telling players exactly how CM applies buddy aid usage to the WIA readout after a battle "might" encourage them to use it, but the 25% WIA recovery that you manually subtract from the WIA number does not encourage buddy aid, as that is given to players irrespective of whether they use buddy aid or not.

The only way the manual 25% WIA recovery could encourage buddy aid, would be if one could know if a player used it or not. Then, you could say that if you use it you get a reward, if you do not, you don't. Even better would be to know how many times a player uses it, then you could give a reward for every time it is used, i.e. 5% WIA back for one use of buddy aid. However, because the AAR screen does not indicate anything about buddy aid usage, one would have to rely on the honesty of the players when they claim their buddy aid bonuses. Of course, these rewards would all be on top of what CM gives you back for using buddy aid.

Understanding basic math is all they need. Using buddy aid as opposed to not doing so will give you results, on average 25% better based on the game mechanics. The artificial 25% return is needed as CM doesn't reward you in any way other than to get equipment and ammo when playing the way we do in CMPzC (lots of single battles that don't track objectives other than "exit"). I'm not sure if you misunderstand that there are two "25%" at work here.

Artificial 25% "return" to both players of their WIA - red based soldiers. Applied by the players.

Mechanical 25% better yield for using buddy aid. Applied by CM itself.

Tracking if a player conduct buddy aid is not a good idea IMO. It brings in a whole new level of administration that is not needed. The AAR screen tells you all you need to know and its not possible to cheat (regarding cheating, however, I believe that playing campaigns in this manner needs trust and players that are not only in it to win).

[noob]

Artificial 25% "return" to both players of their WIA - red based soldiers. Applied by the players.

Mechanical 25% better yield for using buddy aid. Applied by CM itself.

If a player can claim the artificial return, even if buddy aid is not used, then the artificial return cannot encourage the use of buddy aid, as it is not necessary to have used it to claim the artificial return.

The mechanical return is the only thing that could possibly encourage buddy aid, as the mechanical return is only available to players that actually use buddy aid.

That was my point all along. The problem was that you claimed that the artificial return encouraged buddy aid, when it did not.

[Fizou]

If a player can claim the artificial return, even if he did not use buddy aid, then the artificial return cannot encourage the use of buddy aid, as it is not necessary to have used it to claim the artificial return.

The mechanical return is the only thing that could possibly encourage buddy aid, as that mechanical return is only available to players that actually use buddy aid.

That was my point all along. The problem was that you claimed that the artificial return encouraged buddy aid, when it does not.

Yes it does because the artificial return is 25% bigger for the player that uses buddy aid by fact of the mechanical return forced by CM itself. Thats the incentive to use buddy aid. What I have been saying all along. I dont understand what you are missing in the equation. You need the artifical return to create the incentive in the first place. Both players get it but it will be higher for the players that in fact conduct buddy aid.

[noob]

Yes it does because the artificial return is 25% bigger for the player that uses buddy aid by fact of the mechanical return forced by CM itself. Thats the incentive to use buddy aid. What I have been saying all along. I dont understand what you are missing in the equation. You need the artifical return to create the incentive in the first place. Both players get it but it will be higher for the players that in fact conduct buddy aid.

I have it now. Given that in a CM operation, if "all" the the WIA of a CM battle are considered to be unable to fight again in the operation, and therefore removed from the OOB, then, by creating an artificial WIA return, you are making the WIA number relevant, which means buddy aid becomes relevant simply because buddy aid can increase the WIA number, am I correct ?

[Fizou]

All I'm saying is, if you don't have the artificial return at all, there is still the mechanical return as an incentive for using buddy aid, therefore, you don't "need" the artificial return to encourage using buddy aid.

Yes you do. Without the artifical return there is no benefit for the player (other than collecting weapons and ammo). A casualty whether its a KIA or WIA wont benefit you as they are all casualties. The artifical return creates an incentive other than collecting weapons and ammo to care for fallen soldiers.

[noob]

Yes you do. Without the artifical return there is no benefit for the player (other than collecting weapons and ammo). A casualty whether its a KIA or WIA wont benefit you as they are all casualties. The artifical return creates an incentive other than collecting weapons and ammo to care for fallen soldiers.

That's true, the problem I had was forgetting that "all" WIA are usually regarded as removed from the OOB altogether, which makes buddy aid irrelevant, so, you are correct, the artificial return makes the WIA number relevant, and therefore buddy aid.....phew, that was tough, I'm glad that's out of the way

[DavidFields]

Fizou,

I think your tactics were masterful in this battle.

Only 11 KIA? Against a superior force? I don't want to make too much of it, since I want to see the AAR continue, and no one disheartened.

But...really....

[Fizou]

Fizou,

I think your tactics were masterful in this battle.

Only 11 KIA? Against a superior force? I don't want to make too much of it, since I want to see the AAR continue, and no one disheartened.

But...really....

Thanks Rankorian! Im sorry to say that I don't believe I'm the superior CM player/tactician. I think the enemy commander was totally thrown off and thought my intention was an all out attack to take the hex. When he found out my force wasn't bigger than it actually was and that it was more of a hit and run attack it was to late to counterattack effectively.

I'm sure the Axis team will make us pay during the next operational turn. Anyways.. this one of the elements that make this type of play so exciting.

That's true, the problem I had was forgetting that "all" WIA are usually regarded as removed from the OOB altogether, which makes buddy aid irrelevant, so, you are correct, the artificial return makes the WIA number relevant, and therefore buddy aid.....phew, that was tough, I'm glad that's out of the way

Happy we are on the same page

-----------------------------------------

So after the CM battles have been concluded both sides have updated their OOBs in PzC. After this its time for me to finish my assault phase on the hexes that the axis didn't want to play out in CM, and also the hex where I destroyed the entire enemy force.

Assaulted hex is marked by a small red and white bulls eye.

Assaulting unit is underlined with a white line.

Assaulted unit is underlined with a red line.

Assault 1. Hex 17:14 - A small unit XX strong of Italian Costal defense Infantry are attacked by a big combined US force. The axis team didn't want to fight this battle in CM (which I understand) therefore the Italian unit has its PzC defense value lowered to 4 (from 16).

The allies take the hex, without any casualties, destroying the enemy unit. Enemy unit consisting of 35 men is now removed from play all together.

Assault 2. Hex 19:13 - A Coy sized (XXX men) Italian Costal defense Infantry unit is attacked by a US Battalion over a stream. Im not sure why the Axis team didn't want to fight this battle in CM. Because of that, the Italian unit has its PzC defense value lowered to 4 (from 16.)

The Italians take 5 casualties but holds the hex. My US Bn was in travel formation and attacking over a stream, condition was far from optimal. Their attack was halted and they take 4 casualties in the process. Even worse is the fact that the Bn´s morale is lowered and that its now disrupted. I will have to make smarter decisions when it comes to future assaults. This Italian Coy will continue to be a thorn in my side..

Assault 3. Hex 20:8 - A Italian armored car unit was destroyed during the CM battle fought here. The Italians where attacked by a small unit of Stuart tanks and two units of paratroopers. As the Axis force was totally destroyed during the CM battle, their headcount is reduced to zero as well as their defense value. The US assault to take the hex.

The US units take the hex and the Italian unit is removed from play all together.

Next up is the Axis movement phase...

[Fizou]

The initiative is now in the hands of the Axis.

Their movement phase is followed by my defensive fire phase. After that the axis have their combined offensive fire and assault phase. Then this operational turn is concluded.

Below is an image of the Axis movement this turn. I have tried to indicate their advance/movement with red arrows. I have also assigned letters to the units moving (the once I have observed.)

Down by the coast, unit A. A small costal defense unit, that was engaged earlier this morning is moving away from the front (It tried to hit a glider pack howitzer unit on the move, but was fended of as some airborne infantry was able to join in as reinforcements). Probably to link up with the German units moving down the coast. Possibly hit my Rangers in the flank.

Further up the coast, unit B. A Italian Divisional HQ - 202nd Costal defense (shown by the two XX on its box) is moving down, dangerously close to the front.

Inland, the Germans are moving down more reinforcements towards the VL in the town Ribera. Unit C. What seems to be more motorized PzGrenadiers from the 15th Panzergrenadier division are now in a flanking position just north of my airborne units held up in the northern parts of Ribera. To the Airbornes soutwest there are two Coys of Italian Blackshirts and Engineers. I smell a pending assault here... . The Airborne here have been previously engaged against the Italian units to its Soutwest earlier this morning. They conducted a fighting withdrawal against the superior numbers of the Italians.

Unit D, more Pack 40, 75 mm ATG are moving down from the north.

[Fizou]

The response the the Axis movement, is the Allied defensive fire. This is my chance to hinder the enemy's plans for assaults. Can I cause disruption to his units? Can I disable his artillery? Etc..

My defensive fire actions are shown below.. Only the actions that caused any damage to the enemy though..

I have used white letters to indicate where the different units are located in the images.

The Italian Costal Defense unit that was able to hold of my assault takes 6 casualties. 3 casualties from 105 mm guns firing over long distance, open sights. And 3 casualties inflicted by the US Inf Bn on the other side of the stream

More good news as my paratroopers are able to destroy one enemy gun from a battery that was firing on my Rangers in the battle that was just finished in this AAR. I hope to be able to assault them next turn and finish them off for good.

One less gun to worry about during the next set of CM assaults..

Closer to Ribera, more paratroopers target another battery of Italian guns. They don't take out any of the guns but they are able to disrupt the battery. I think this means they wont be able to put out fire during their offensive fire turn, I will at least not be as effective.

My airborne are ready to assault this battery and silence it, as well as taking the bridge and the important VL that covers the entrance to Ribera.

My Airborne held up in northern Ribera cause 4 casualties to the PzGren as they move up, ready to assault.

Finally my Rangers cause 6 casualties to the PzGren that they where in combat with just recently. We are sure to see a German counterattack here..

Next up.. the Axis offensive fire, before their assault phase..

[noob]

Thanks Rankorian! Im sorry to say that I don't believe I'm the superior CM player/tactician.

What I noticed, while watching the battle via the turns, not the AAR, was the fact that you put the right weapons in the right situations. For example, the units you had in that strip of woods by the beach were predominantly armed with SMG's, and your LMG's occupied the ridge line, with excellent over watch. Therefore, just by putting the right weapons with the right terrain maximised your forces effectiveness. A player that gets those fundamentals right, will always have an advantage, irrespective of other factors.

[noob]

There is a lot of dead ground that you display on your overhead screenshots that is irrelevant to the operation. If you zoom in further, or crop the map to exclude that dead ground, the operational area will be bigger and easier to read.

[Fizou]

What I noticed, while watching the battle via the turns, not the AAR, was the fact that you put the right weapons in the right situations. For example, the units you had in that strip of woods by the beach were predominantly armed with SMG's, and your LMG's occupied the ridge line, with excellent over watch. Therefore, just by putting the right weapons with the right terrain maximised your forces effectiveness. A player that gets those fundamentals right, will always have an advantage, irrespective of other factors.

Yes, I thought long and hard about deployment and the terrain I had in front of me. Its very special to attack down hill and then up hill, and then have to retreat through the same terrain again.

There is a lot of dead ground that you display on your overhead screenshots that is irrelevant to the operation. If you zoom in further, or crop the map to exclude that dead ground, the operational area will be bigger and easier to read.

Thanks for the feedback. I´ll make sure to remember it when I put up more pics

[noob]

I have found an easier way of editing the headcounts of the PzC units. If you open the PzC.oob file with notepad, you see the OOB as a single list of text and numbers. All the foot units are identifiable, as are their headcounts. If you open the edit menu in the notepad tool bar, there is a "Replace" function. This allows any selected part of the OOB data to be swapped with another selection, therefore, one can change the headcount of "all" the PzGD units in one action, as they are the only units with a PzC headcount of 197. It becomes slower when units from different sides share the same PzC headcount, but not the same CM headcount, then, one has to chose the side with more units to change en masse, and rectify the other sides units individually. However, this is still a much quicker way than having access each unit individually. Also by editing the entire PzC OOB to reflect the default headcounts of the equivalent CM foot units, all the pre made scenarios in a PzC title become CM friendly.

[Kuderian]

@Noob - Good method,thanks.

I would add that you can use the 'find' function first to locate the correct formation first in the list

[Fizou]

Axis offensive fire:

I will only show results that had effect.

The PzGren softens up the defending Rangers before their pending assault. 14 casualties are inflicted, whats really bad is the fact that all my British Liaison officers / FO for HMS Ulster are killed. I think this will render HMS Ulster ineffective for the reminder of the operation. A huge setback for the Allies to say the least..

The 14 men/X indicates 14 casualties are sustained as well as that a unit has been destroyed. In this case the British Liaison officers calling in fire from the light cruiser HMS Ulster.

Axis assault phase:

Two assaults are declared. I have opted to fight both of them in CM, even though Im heavily outnumbered.

Assault 1.

The paratroopers held up in northern Ribera are assaulted from the SW by a Coy of Italian blackshirts from the XII Corps. They are also assaulted from the N by a unit of PzGrenadiers from the 15th PzGren Division. I'm not sure how big the German force is. The XXX indicates we have between a Coy and a full Bn in front of us.

Assault 2.

The Rangers are counterattacked after the hit and run they just have conducted against a weekend Bn of PzGren from the 15th PzGren Division. Its the northern hex that is assaulted (83 men from G and H / 3rd Rangers). The adjacent unit I / 3rd Rangers can move in as reinforcements if I choose to deploy them. The unit has to cross a hex (1km) at its units PzC speed. Most infantry have a 4km/H speed. This means it takes them 15 minutes to traverse the ground. However there is a +/- 15 minutes variable to simulate that it takes time to get the message received and get moving. There is also a HQ at the adjacent hex, HQ 3rd Rangers. They cant take part in anything other than fully defensive actions, so the hex they occupy has to be attacked for them to be able to take part in a battle (I've marked them with a red box).

We are now in the process of finding / creating suitable maps for the two battles.

--

[noob]

I do like the 2D Zoom In view, terrain features are clearer, especially rivers and streams. I will start doing all my PzC AAR's like this from now. Those lines you have connecting the unit info boxes to the units are a bit disconcerting, I have to concentrate to make sure I am reading them right. A single black or red arrow will suffice

[Fizou]

My 2IC in this campaign is steeping down due to RL time constrains. Playing as a team makes this whole experience much more fun. If you would like to take part as 2IC in the allied team together with me, please let me know via a PM. 2IC doesn't handle any of the PzC stuff, its all about CM action. Our next set of battles are ready to go.

[Mark Bowman]

I'm enjoying all of the CMPzC AARs. PM sent.

[kohlenklau]

...the runner woke me around midnight. Shortly thereafter, the Task Force Commander was quick to make it all sound simple. "Jump into Ribera to take over 2 companies of airborne troopers sizzling in the frying pan." Or words to that effect.

C-47 rolling down the strip, airborne daddy's gonna take a little trip, stand-up, hook-up, shuffle to the door, jump on out and count to four, if that chute don't open wide, I've got another one by my side, if that one don't open round, I'll be the first one to the ground...

"BEAT YOUR BOOTS YOU DIRTY NASTY LEG!!!"

..."fond" memories of my 3 weeks at Fort Benning, Georgia, the summer of 1985.

[kohlenklau]

I PM'd Fizou. I did turn 1 and entered the password, my h2hh sent back turn 2 to the dropbox. Come on! Lets do this! The "Terror in Ribera" AAR is about to commence. Stay tuned to this channel...

[mjkerner]

Pronounced "Terrah in the Ribera" no doubt.

Phil, who's the fellow in the pic?

[kohlenklau]

I have no idea, googled "airborne soldier smoking cigar" and that was one of the images.

I gotta get into character for my AAR's!!!