kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Just saw in the mods forum, LT Smash's WW2 style icons. They will be usable or I can try and make something look handwritten. I mean how did they do it for real back in the day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I mean how did they do it for real back in the day? http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/maps/wwii/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl If i click on that link i get an error message. <title>CGI Program - Unexpected Error</title> <h1>Server Error</h1> <hr>MrSID image_width = for /gmd/g3974/g3974a/pm000010.sid</hr> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 yeah, the memory.loc.gov site is infuriating to navigate around, but the daily situation maps are gold when you finally figure it out. Try the updated link. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Sertorius Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I am using paint.NET and am learning to manipulate layers as we speak.I like paint.NET, but I like the GIMP even better, FWIW. http://www.gimp.org/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I love the idea of this map! If I may suggest something, though, I think it looks anachronistically clean and clear. It looks like something you just downloaded and produced with a laser printer rather than something worked up at headquarters and then folded into your dirty pocket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 JonS! JonS! Come on man, you are about to hit your 10,00th post. Post something, anything! This reminds of me watching the odometer roll over before digital odomters... No, it is not what I wanted, thanks but maybe I tend to play down at the granular level. These nice clean maps look to be what the staff officers keep looking awesome for the Regimental CO or Division or Cripes sake way up at Corps HQ. I guess I think of the pointy end of the spear and the freaking town is right there and you didn't have a week to prepare a sand table representation. The platoon leader and Compnay CO apparently only had these 1:25,000 scale maps. The website had 1:500,000 scale. I remember from navigation class during my long ago military training, small scale, large area and large scale , small area. 1 cm of those tactical maps is 250m. That is my entire map for this particular scenario! Ambush of a patrol... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 @ martyr, yes, I am working on a coffee stain and some smudges and maybe a fold. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Quintus Sortortius, I will take a look at GIMP, thanks. I dl'd paint.NET hoping to learn how to mod CMFI Italian gray uniforms to something like Africa tan. Sheesh. When you waste a few hours going in circles, you really respect the dudes who post such awesome mods on the repository. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 ok, a 1st attempt at some distressing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 compare to this ebay ww2 map for Operation Dragoon. Found in a WW2 vets stuff. see the folds and I guess I could have gone darker with the smudges. aw shucks, that is after I started cutting and pasting...hold on, I will get the original up ASAP. But still you can see something distressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 No, it is not what I wanted, thanks but maybe I tend to play down at the granular level. These nice clean maps look to be what the staff officers keep looking awesome for the Regimental CO or Division or Cripes sake way up at Corps HQ. I guess I think of the pointy end of the spear and the freaking town is right there and you didn't have a week to prepare a sand table representation. The platoon leader and Compnay CO apparently only had these 1:25,000 scale maps. The website had 1:500,000 scale. I remember from navigation class during my long ago military training, small scale, large area and large scale , small area. 1 cm of those tactical maps is 250m. That is my entire map for this particular scenario! Ambush of a patrol... Oh, well, of course the maps used at army group level are different to the maps used at platoon level. But those are indisputably 'real' 1944/45 maps, so the format and style of the markings is relevant to what you're doing, even if the exact content isn't. Real 1940's era 1:50k maps aren't *that* hard to find. If you're making a fictional battle you could find a spot on a map that looks roughly like what you've made (or, vice versa, find a likely spot and edit your map). There's also all the US Official histories (and monographs like "Small Unit Actions") which all have excellent maps. You could mine those for style and content. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger73 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Thanks for the encouraging words fellas. <snipped> @badger 73. You are right. How do I show the objectives or other player expected items? Maybe I need to create some new icons or better yet utilize existing army symbology or WW2 versions. I think it is solvable. I'd solve it with standard WW2 period icons; the rectangles using unit type symbols and size indicators, (see http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/11-4/symbols.htm). Draw arrow for route of advance towards circle shaped named objectives. Avoid low level clutter. Keep it simple and specific to the briefing's operation order(s). Nice work! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 here it is, and note it is only 1:25,000 and contour intervals are 10 meters. Not much examining the micro terrain for places to take cover. I think we are clearly spoiled kids with our intel as CM players. It is just a game so the point is to have fun and enjoy it so maybe these old WW2 style tac maps can be for the player who wants to try less intel for the on the fly type of hasty attack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 While the staining and whatnot looks very cool, it's also anachronistic. The staining at the creases, for example, that we commmonly associate with old maps is in most cases due to 40-50 years of storage in sub-optimal conditions. It's not the kind of thing you'd typically see on an in-use map. (And, at least in the case of Normandy, the British were re-issuing maps with updated defence over-prints every 2-3 days. Maps being used by platoon and company commanders would seldom be anything except brand-spanking new). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 JonS, 10,001 posts, aw shucks, you were turning into a Stuckey's gas station looking for 58 cents a gallon gas on I-95 south headed to Florida and and missed the odometer rolling over! I appreciate your suggestions and happen to love mining for map jpegs. Thanks. badger, thanks for the symbols. I guess the 90 day wonders were taught these. Did the NCO's know this stuff? It seems from my readings a leg infantry private made corporal if he survived and then could become a sgt and squad leader fairly quickly based on casualties. All the airborne troops had much more intensive training and probably were taught this and as a matter of pride knew the symbols. Maybe a handwritten tac map would tend to simply say MG for machinegun? Does anyone have any of these old tac maps? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I guess the 90 day wonders were taught these. Did the NCO's know this stuff? It seems from my readings a leg infantry private made corporal if he survived and then could become a sgt and squad leader fairly quickly based on casualties. All the airborne troops had much more intensive training and probably were taught this and as a matter of pride knew the symbols. Maybe a handwritten tac map would tend to simply say MG for machinegun? Does anyone have any of these old tac maps? You appear to be ignoring the results of your own survey. Make your map authentic-ish, by all means, but respondents seem to be saying to make it legible and clear above all. Disappearing up your own fundamental oriffice in an illusionary search for some imaginary ultimate authenticity is a fools errand. Covering your map in chicken scratchings and crayon drawings might be authentic, but it won't be clear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 JonS, it is no biggie. A happy medium of staining and artisitic BS. If I can make a reasonably decent looking standard format and then update only a specific map's topo layer, I am a happy camper. I would share it on the repository for anyone who cares to have it. Maybe someone could improve upon it and we'd see if it is a plus to options for the scenario writers out there. 950 x 352 aint that big a tac map image. I guess I gotta look at some of these huge maps and how they portray things. I tend to fight the small size battles.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Also while the map looking authentic is cool, it helps the briefing much more if the suspected enemy line of defense, and other information is clear to see and legible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 950 x 352 is very challenging to fit all this eyecandy and a clear see-able description of objectives, etc. And my map is so on the tiny scale. Imagine the monster maps! This is a good learning experience and my very first use of photobucket by the way but I am not sure how popular it would be... But those poor sods back in dark 44 only had chicken scratch.... Thanks for all your inputs and comments. I will still use this in my upcoming campaign for CMBN Sauvignon Sahara coming soon to a repository near you! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 What is the pale blue/green 'Y' shaped line depicting? If that is your briefing tacMap, how much of what is shown there is actually present in the CM scenario - or is your CM map really 5km wide by 2km tall? 950x352 is kind of an odd aspect ratio, and there must be very few maps that neatly fit that. Take a look at the disk scenarios for CMBN-CW and CMFI. The use of the right hand quarter of the picture space in the Op- and Tac-Maps to list reinforcements, fire support and objectives is, I think, a good way to utilise the space. For your authentic-ish map style you could replicate that approach by including the same type of information, but 'typed' on a piece of yellowed or tan paper, as if you were showing the player a piece of an OpOrd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Sir, that is supposed to be a river! I guess I could have said some river name along it. Haven't figured that out yet. You are correct my in game map is only a portion of the above. I am wrestling with how to do this. speak of the devil, right now I am going through some stock scenarios and seeing what is what. I do see the metal rivet border and kind of breaking down things in that image as sub images, maybe I can as you mentioned squeeze this in to the left in a smaller format. A possible good thing about my original style might be that for a campaign it is a foreshadowing of terrain you might see in the next battle. If it indeed happened that close to the first skirmish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 JonS, oh no no no... it is late.... now I understand your suggestion, I didn't understand it at first. Great idea, thanks! I tuck mine to the left and create a new yellowy typed op order sheet with the objectives and points value over to the right. That could look nice. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 OK, it is the weekend again and I will add the JonS suggestion to the right side of the tac map. A typed font yellowish paper with objectives and points values and I was thinking a color coding to correlate with the topo map. I also experimented for the first time with the overlay feature in the map editor. I guess I had somehow a long while back misunderstood and thought it processed the elevations for you. Now I see it is simply a way to trace your manual entered elevations values and of course building locations, roads etc on to the CM2 maps. Standby later tonight I will post up a new version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 All this labor of love and taking suggestions and all...when you release it in all it's glory, you'll be lucky to get 2 thank you's. So I'll thank you in advance for all this, kohlenklau! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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