Vehicle Encycloepdia

[YankeeDog]

The data is in the game, of course, but it is in a form that "as is" couldn't be of use to anybody.

See... told you so.

It seems to me that some enterprising soul could look up the actual specs for each vehicle and get the armor thickness and slope/gun velocity/etc data off the intraweb.

Actually, there is a resource very much like this available: Chris Hare's CM Charts. All of the data from the CM unit info windows, in easy-to-reference, printable table form.

As I have noted, there are some fundamental differences in the way CMx1 and CMx2 model things like vehicle armor. All these game code differences aside, the CMx1 games were made by the same guys, and the data from the first generation games remains a very useful at-a-glance summary of a vehicle's armor protection and other attributes. Similarly, the CMx1 gun data is still useful to get a rough idea of what a given projectile can do at a certain range.

I've been playing CM for long enough that I rarely refer to these charts anymore, but for beginning players without a good base knowledge of WWII AFV capabilities, I'd suggest just printing up a copy and keeping them handy.

There are other, more in-depth resources out there. For U.S. vehicles., the AFV Database is fairly good. There are others; Google is your friend.

[Tarquelne]

There are other, more in-depth resources out there. For U.S. vehicles., the AFV Database is fairly good. There are others; Google is your friend.

That's what I did, but recently the ALT and TAB keys on my keyboard were destroyed in a boating accident. So now I think the data should be presented in-game... functionality to be added by a free patch that also includes the correct Bren gun tripods!

[Vanir Ausf B]

See... told you so.

Actually, what you said was that CMx1 was a "totally different system" that used a "hit matrix", which is not the same thing as what Steve said. And I never said the data could be used "as is". Was the data in CMx1 used "as is"?

But in the spirit of giving I will conceed the argument, even though you can't point to anything I said that was incorrect. Merry Christmas.

[Vanir Ausf B]

It seems to me that some enterprising soul could look up the actual specs for each vehicle and get the armor thickness and slope/gun velocity/etc data off the intraweb. Then arrange it on a spreadsheet and upload it to the repository.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=98847

EDITED to add: The fact that someone already made out spreadsheets containing most of the relevant info proves my point about how not-prohibitively difficult an encyclopedia would be. The idea that the data would need to be extracted as is from the game is a canard. An in-game encyclopedia could be just a pretty spreadsheet you can call up at the push of a button. If Steve thinks there is not enough benefit to make it worth their time that's fine, but getting the relevant penetration data is not hard at all.

[sfhand]

I'd suggest taking a look at Marco Bergman's excellent UI mods, they provide a lot of information about units relative strengths and weaknesses as well as a spreadsheet for out of game comparisons. You can pick them up at the Repository or GAJ's place.

[Battlefront.com]

Actually, what you said was that CMx1 was a "totally different system" that used a "hit matrix", which is not the same thing as what Steve said.

Yeah, but he was pretty much right about that too At least insofar as the CMx1 and CMx2 systems are vastly different from each other, though neither one uses a "hit matrix" system. CMx1 pretty much did use the data that was presented within the game's detail window, so it wasn't too hard to get at. With CMx2 it's a ton of data welded to specific planes on a 3D model. Not very easy to display that information in useful way even after mining it out of the game guts.

But I think it seems you guys agree that the primary objective of an "Encyclopedia" is to have something that is relevant to gameplay. A tool to aid in determining outcome before you find out the hard way. And I agree it's something we need to get into the game at some point.

For me, I've always been the "gut" based type. I know that a Sherman has a pretty good chance of knocking out anything if it can get close enough or hit at the right angle. I know if I have a King Tiger my advantage is stand off range from my frontal arc. Etc. I use this sort of broad understanding to shape my tactics. Even after 13 years of playing CM games I neither know nor care about the numbers that are used. I only care that they work correctly.

Steve

[MikeyD]

It seems a proportion of support for an encyclopedia reference is more about nostalgia than anything else. Back in the good-old-days when the glossary in the back of the manual was your only source of info. Now I'm forever bailing out of the game, Googling a weapon or a unit or a particular battle - sometimes even roaming the actual location in Google earth streetview - then dropping back into the game again. More infomation at my fingertips than any mere game reference could possibly hope to provide. Technology has overtaken the encyclopedia. Even Encyclopedia Britannica is feeling the effects.

[Vanir Ausf B]

With CMx2 it's a ton of data welded to specific planes on a 3D model. Not very easy to display that information in useful way even after mining it out of the game guts.

Marco Bergman already did it and he doesn't even have access to the game guts (I presume).

But I think it seems you guys agree that the primary objective of an "Encyclopedia" is to have something that is relevant to gameplay. A tool to aid in determining outcome before you find out the hard way. And I agree it's something we need to get into the game at some point.

Agreed. Although some people do seem to appreciate the hard numbers for educational purposes.

[agusto]

YankeeDog, Vanir Ausf B, sfhand

Thank you for the hints where to find useful information.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=98847

all.

Marco Bergmans mod looks great, i must try that!

A tool to aid in determining outcome before you find out the hard way.

Steve

Exactly that is the point. Probably a full scale encyclopedia was the wrong thing to ask for.

[agusto]

But I think it seems you guys agree that the primary objective of an "Encyclopedia" is to have something that is relevant to gameplay. A tool to aid in determining outcome before you find out the hard way. And I agree it's something we need to get into the game at some point.

Steve

I tried Marco Bergmans excellent UI mod in the past days.

http://i52.tinypic.com/1yux5i.png

That is exactly that kind of info/tool (the silhouetts with the numbers) i meant when i asked for the encyclopedia. To all of those who said that these numbers do not represent the actual penetration/armor values in every situation that might occur in the game: i know that, but still these numbers give you a quite good idea of what your vehicle is capable of and what not.