akd Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Precision is not the same as accuracy. AFAIK, based on hours of testing, artillery is 100% accurate unless: 1. "emergency" is selected as the mission type. 2. The FO is not able to properly observe fall of spotting rounds and after a certain number of spotting rounds the firing unit "gives up" and goes to FFE on the location of the last spotting round. This can lead to various degrees of inaccuracy depending on whether the FO was ever able to observe fall of rounds (e.g. the FO team was moved after the initial request) or was interrupted sometime during the process of adjustment (e.g. the FO team was suppressed/moved after making initial adjustments but before spotting rounds were completed). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It didn't. No bugs carried over because no code was reused. They started from the ground up with CMx2. Whatever. You're the expert I guess. Then they did new code that also has the same problem with spotting rounds falling out of LOS, causing the code to go down the path that was intended for deliberate out-of-LOS fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 So: you think that an FO calling for another spotting shot when they can't see the splash of a previous one is consistent with the FFE being out of sight of the FO? "A little less precise" does not tranlate to "an order of magnitude less precise". Add the fact that this is a relatively rare occurrence, and that most fire missions land within an effective radius of their target (eventually, barring spotting FUBARs tending the arrival delay to "indefinite"). It looks and smells like a bug to me, and since BFC have intented to fix it, I'm going to cleave to that opinion. If it was an intentional change, they'd've said so and not fixed it. Obviously, the precision is not the issue that Sublime is seeing. I just copy/pasted the patch artillery related notes. Quite possibly, he is seeing the artillery go off target because the spotting rounds are not being spotted. The TRP issue that he claims happened is either extremely rare or possibly his mistake. It's obviously not a recurring problem otherwise we'd see a lot of posts about this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 No its not my mistake. I've heard other people mention it. It's rare but not insanely rare. Just like the ATG (or now MG) member detaching himself from the crewed weapon to wanderabout. It doesnt happen every battle, however it has happened to me several times. First of all I've seen spotted rounds go into FFE when they.re way off. Without a trp. Happens, however not always. And the TRP is the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I don't know if this is an example of the behavior mentioned in this thread, but I do have an example of indirect mortar fire on a TRP landing off target. I have 3 60mm mortar crews firing on a TRP, point target maximum/short. The fire has been called in by an FO. All units are Elite/+2. The rounds land off target more often than not. Interestingly they seem to land off target by the same distance, 120-130 meters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 that is very odd.. thanks for the test. I dont get the same results as often. like I said its infrequent but not SUPER SUPER rare where I can write it off in my head as a vagary of war, or that I dont notice. Also the fact that theyre consistently falling off target at the same distance really makes me think its some bug.. a wrong number value somewhere or something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Another odd thing I noticed in my test is that the mortars would sometimes seem to walk the rounds in towards the TRP. You can see this if you have a mortar selected as the line will show where they are currently firing. This is odd. Neither the mortar crews nor the FO have LOS to the TRP. They are just firing at a coordinate on a map so they would not know if they were on target and would have no means of adjusting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 I wonder if you move the FO to the hedge so he can see the TRPs if any changes in behavior would be noticed? Good work, because this means somethings almost certainly wrong.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Vanir, is this the same test scenario you previously sent to me? If so, please give instructions on how to reproduce the behavior you are seeing. If not, please send the scenario to my e-mail with same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It's the exact same except for a few modifications. 1) There is a TRP. 2) The FO is off the bocage so he doesn't have LOS to the target. 3) The fire missions are point targets instead of area targets. 4) The test is run in Iron mode instead of Scenario Author Test. This is actually a earlier version of the same test I sent you. When I began that testing I noticed that the fire was coming in off target so often that getting good results would be difficult. So I removed the TRP, moved the FO up to the bocage and saw accuracy improve immensely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I wonder if you move the FO to the hedge so he can see the TRPs if any changes in behavior would be noticed? I'm going to move him up so he has LOS and retest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Interesting test. I wonder if this is an issue squarely with on board mortars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Well this is exactly what I was describing. And when it happened in my experience it happened with off board artillery as well. I very rarely use on board assets indirectly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I moved the FO up so he had LOS. All 3 mortars came in off target again so it seems to be the TRP. I have sent the files to a beta tester. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I moved the FO up so he had LOS. All 3 mortars came in off target again so it seems to be the TRP. I have sent the files to a beta tester. Thanks Vanir. I had already replicated the problem with the previous scenario you sent to me. As far as I can tell, this specific issue is confined to the first set of rounds in the first mission fired by on-map indirect assets on a TRP during the scenario (rather than during setup phase). I have reported this problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Thanks Vanir. I had already replicated the problem with the previous scenario you sent to me. As far as I can tell, this specific issue is confined to the first set of rounds in the first mission fired by on-map indirect assets on a TRP during the scenario (rather than during setup phase). I have reported this problem. It being the first mission rings true with what I've seen, though I can't for the life of me remember whether the two times I've seen it, it was onmap assets or not. I do know that subsequent missions from the same asset were bang on target. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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