Deploying HMG's behind walls/bocage

[_Itchy]

I seem to recall reading in a post somewhere that when you deploy heavy weapons under certain circumstances e.g. behind a low wall they will never get line of sight over the wall but if left un-deployed they can be fired effectively from this kind of position. However I have been unable to relocate that thread.

I have certainly experienced problems with LOS from .50's etc once or twice playing versus the AI but never really understood the intricacies of the problem.

I am just about to start my first PBEM game with CMBN in a scenario filled with bocage and walls and I would hate for my M1917A1's to find themselves deployed in circumstances where they can take fire but not return the favour.

Could one of you kind fellows please explain the dos and don'ts of setting up heavy weapons effectively from cover? Thanks in advance.

[Erwin]

You stated it yourself quite well. Unless there are height issues, usually you can fire an MG via BIPOD over a wall, but on a deployed TRIPOD it may be too low.

[_Itchy]

Thanks Erwin,

So that suggests firing through bocage won't be a problem, but tripods inside houses or behind walls are unlikely to be effective locations for HMGs?

[Boche]

Inside houses its no problem.

[_Itchy]

Thanks gents.

[womble]

I'm pretty sure they fixed the wall problem in one of the patches.

[speedkills]

Hey guys, did a search but didn't come across any specific details of this so will drop the question here without starting a new thread.

Just started a scenario PBEM and was able to deploy the U.S. 57mm ATG in to a house with good LOS, happened by accident but I was also able to move and deploy it also on the second floor of the house. First time I've seen this and wondering if this is a legitimate tactic in the game?

[eltorrente]

Hey guys, did a search but didn't come across any specific details of this so will drop the question here without starting a new thread.

Just started a scenario PBEM and was able to deploy the U.S. 57mm ATG in to a house with good LOS, happened by accident but I was also able to move and deploy it also on the second floor of the house. First time I've seen this and wondering if this is a legitimate tactic in the game?

No. Not on the second floor - that sounds silly.

The first floor is believable, but I'd be pissed if my opponent had AT guns upstairs..

[speedkills]

Yea I'd pretty buggered if I saw an ATG set up on a second floor, the reason I opted against setting it up in building at all, not sure if it was designed that way or just the scenario.

On that note though It wouldn't be too surprising to see a 37mm U.S. or a 3.7cm pak 36 setup maybe on the second floor. Would seem pretty risky doing that in reality but the risks may of paid off.

[YankeeDog]

On that note though It wouldn't be too surprising to see a 37mm U.S. or a 3.7cm pak 36 setup maybe on the second floor. Would seem pretty risky doing that in reality but the risks may of paid off.

Eh? Have you ever seen one of these guns up close, in person? I have (U.S. version), at a small private museum where the owner actually let me handle it and roll it around a bit. While a heck of a lot smaller than higher-caliber AT guns, a 37mm ATG is still way too large and heavy to manhandle up a residential flight of stairs without a substantial amount of effort and probably some equipment like a block and tackle. And unless the staircase were quite wide and straight, you'd probably have to partially disassemble the gun to do this. The barrel is also at the wrong height to fire through your typical residential building window -- it's quite low-slung. So you'd either have to build some sort of platform to elevate the gun in order to fire through a window, or knock a pretty good-sized loophole through the exterior wall.

And especially in your typical European house with fairly small rooms, interior walls are going to limit your deployment options for the gun on the 2nd floor, unless you take the time to knock some of them down, too. Once you take into account the length of the rails, it's pretty long from the tip of the barrel to the end of the rails.

And after all this effort, in exchange for perhaps a modest increase in field of fire, you now have a a gun that can't be moved without reversing the whole process, and that's now easier to knock out with direct fire because the enemy can simply shoot the building out from under it.

Possible? Probably, with a considerable amount of effort. Advisable or Likely? No way. Maybe in a large, open industrial building like a 2-story warehouse with a heavy-duty lift. Otherwise, I just don't see it.

[Peregrine]

Can't specifically speak for Normandy but walking up internal flight of stairs with a medium suitcase is often awkward in the type of French buildings you see portrayed in CMBN. More so the second to third story but I have seen enough tight ones from ground to one.

Deploying a gun on floor 2 would be great for LOLs if your opponent has a sense of humour.

[Vanir Ausf B]

Thanks Erwin,

So that suggests firing through bocage won't be a problem, but tripods inside houses or behind walls are unlikely to be effective locations for HMGs?

[Peregrine]

I have certainly experienced problems with LOS from .50's etc once or twice playing versus the AI but never really understood the intricacies of the problem.

I have played heaps and unless you find the thread that explains it explicitly I would just deploy in what you think is the best position and accept that in rare situations you may have to move.

From memory you can't actually precheck the LOS prior to deploying so I think the risk needs to be accepted. I rarely leave stuff not deployed and don't do anything special to avoid it so hopefully you will find it as a rare LOS glitch that shouldn't spoil anything overly.

The above pic is one for conspiracy theorists. The second gunman was behind the wall.

[eltorrente]

I use heavy MGs in most of my games, and I honestly don't remember having any issues with LOS with them. If a spot seems like it'd be good to put an MG, then I just send them there and it seems to work every time.

[Baneman]

I use heavy MGs in most of my games, and I honestly don't remember having any issues with LOS with them. If a spot seems like it'd be good to put an MG, then I just send them there and it seems to work every time.

Agree.

I think there's a "fudge-factor" for low walls - the MG is assumed to be setup to see over the wall, but there is no change to the graphically depicted tripod height.

I've certainly had no problem seeing and shooting over low walls with HMG's as per Vanir's picture.

[Erwin]

I recall a lot of discussion in CMBN about this problem and I was advised as above. Perhaps the problem has been alleviated in CMFI and patches (and I simply never noticed)?