Schwimmwagen

[Seedorf81]

In the 70's my first Tamiya modelkit was a Schwimmwagen. I really loved it.

Are we gonna see it in Market Garden or Battle of the Bulge, perhaps??

And does anyone know how widely spread they (the schwimmwagens) were through the German Army/SS?

[Baneman]

Were they ever even used in anger ?

I don't recall reading about any battles in which they partook, but my reading list is inferior to many here.

[Sergei]

Were they ever even used in anger ?

You might ask were Kübelwagens ever used in anger? The answer depends on road conditions... Schwimmwagen was not an assaultcraft, for sure. Then again, there are more than combat vehicles present in Combat Mission. But presently there are no amphibious vehicles so no Schwimmwagens or anything of that kind.

[Fenris]

Immediately thought of this pic. Dunno how widespread they were. Water crossing ability would have been handy in a recce vehicle I imagine.

-F

[Michael Emrys]

And does anyone know how widely spread they (the schwimmwagens) were through the German Army/SS?

I've seen plenty of pics of them, either in use by the Germans or beat up/shot up in captured vehicle parks. I don't imagine that you'd find them in the front lines (in a CM battle) very often at all, but in a highly fluid situation they might find themselves where the action is.

Michael

[JonS]

I wonder how robust the hulls were. I would think that after a week or two on campaign the hull would be so dinged and beat up that it'd hold water abut as well as a sieve.

(Consider, for example, the mudguards on all tanks of the era, and the side skirts on German tanks)

[John Kettler]

JonS,

And how does that differ from one of these? I've never read an account of a Schwimmwagen's foundering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GPA

Regards,

John Kettler

[JonS]

How does it differ? Well, one is American, made in the US by Ford. The other is German, made in Germany by Volkswagen. They had different controls, different paintjobs, and the Jeep is 300kg heavier.

Did you read the article you googled and blindly linked to? It's full of phrases like "the seep was not a successful design", "the Seep couldn't handle more than a light chop", "couldn't handle much cargo", "The Seep's intended objective ... was not met", and "many of the Jeeps that were used in battle sank".

What point were you trying to make?

[John Kettler]

JonS,

Clearly the Ford GPA is bigger, but that wasn't my point. My point was that you were asserting normal land operations would compromise the hull, rendering it useless for flotation. For river crossings, where there generally isn't chop, let alone real waves, the vehicle worked fine. If you'll watch minutes 7-9 here in this BoB doc, you'll not only see the rather full GPAs crossing the Oder no sweat as far as flotation, but hard proof the Russian had bazookas in combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-K7b8sAH1w&mode=related&search=

Regards,

John Kettler

[JonS]

Gotcha. No point, with a bit of random misdirection thrown in for good measure. Business as usual, then.

[winkelried]

And does anyone know how widely spread they (the schwimmwagens) were through the German Army/SS?

The most common type of the Schwimmwagen (some 15'000+ produced), the Type 166, were used mainly in the motorcycle (recon) units of SS and Wehrmacht to replace the motorcycles with sidecar. So we would find the Schwimmwagen in the Panzer-Aufklärungskompanie (VW) as le Pkw schwf side by side with Type 82 Kübelwagen. I think they were rarely used as amphibious vehicles, but their cross-country ability was amongst the best for German wheeled vehicles in WW2.

In contrast to the Kübelwagen (Type 82 - 50'000+ produced) the Type 166 was a true 4x4 (the Type 82 had only the rear wheels driven) in first and rear-gear with a self locking-differential (Type 82 had this too) and a good ground clearance.

BTW - the type 166 seems to have been cheaper to produce than the motorcycles with sidecar - i read something about 50% of the cost.

[Seedorf81]

The most common type of the Schwimmwagen (some 15'000+ produced), the Type 166, were used mainly in the motorcycle (recon) units of SS and Wehrmacht to replace the motorcycles with sidecar. So we would find the Schwimmwagen in the Panzer-Aufklärungskompanie (VW) as le Pkw schwf side by side with Type 82 Kübelwagen. I think they were rarely used as amphibious vehicles, but their cross-country ability was amongst the best for German wheeled vehicles in WW2.

In contrast to the Kübelwagen (Type 82 - 50'000+ produced) the Type 166 was a true 4x4 (the Type 82 had only the rear wheels driven) in first and rear-gear with a self locking-differential (Type 82 had this too) and a good ground clearance.

BTW - the type 166 seems to have been cheaper to produce than the motorcycles with sidecar - i read something about 50% of the cost.

Thanks Winkelried, this is -instead of the almost inevitable, and sometimes nearly childish, squabbling amongst some of the forummembers - a clear and usefull reaction on a forumquestion. I like that.

And I still would like to see a Schwimmwagen in the game, doesn't need to be amphibious, I just like the looks. (Instead of those of that f#%k-ugly kubelwagen.)

And while I'm at it, I wouldn't mind to see the Beep too sometime.

[sburke]

Thanks Winkelried, this is -instead of the almost inevitable, and sometimes nearly childish, squabbling amongst some of the forummembers - a clear and usefull reaction on a forumquestion. I like that.

And I still would like to see a Schwimmwagen in the game, doesn't need to be amphibious, I just like the looks. (Instead of those of that f#%k-ugly kubelwagen.)

And while I'm at it, I wouldn't mind to see the Beep too sometime.

But then it wouldn't be the internet. And that isn't a kubelwagen, it is the volkswagen "thing"

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=volkswagen+thing&qpvt=volkswagen+thing&FORM=IGRE

Me I don't need a justification to see something, hell I'd like motorcycles with side cars!