dungeontiger Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 This will be the allies side of the epic quick battle I am playing against my long time friend Ian. Read the beginning of his post (same title but with Axis Side) for details of the game. I will not be reading his posts but will be posting all my notes, thoughts and progress here. Obviously, please don't spoil it by adding operational details about his side to this thread! I want it to be a fair fight. Let the games begin.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 HQ has given orders for the my armoured battalion to take and hold three key towns in a large area. The Krauts are expected to be making for the same three positions. It looks like it is going to be a tough fight for the Tommies. HQ intel reports an opposing armoured battalion sized force with the lastest equipment which will include the dreaded King Tiger. I've stomped on them before with my faithful Churchills but it takes 2 or 3 and clever flanking to do it. I've also faced them head on and lost an entire company of Chruchills in minutes. Their armour is likely to be supported by mounted infantry so I will have to watch out for Shreks as well as KTs. Weather is stormy, windy and rainy. We move out at 0630. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is our second epic battle. The first, on the same map with the same sides, was 12,000 points. Normally I would play the axis side since I am so found of German armour, but when Common Wealth was released I wanted desperately to try the Churchill. Things were going well until he found my trap before I could spring it. That's when I lost something like 12 Churchills in 2 minutes. It was insane. I learned a lot from that engagement and I hope to apply that learning here. First, I had engineers expecting they could use demo charges to ambush tanks. That did not end well. I also had a ton of large caliber artillery...even a battleship. It was great for moving dirt and making an impressive mess but did little. The Achilles was a deadly weapon when positioned properly. I did not have nearly enough recon to know what was happening. So, this time, I chose differently. No artillery. The map is too large to know where he is going to be and it takes too long to call in large caliber ordnance. I'll use the points for armour. Knowing my friend, he's going to have a well balanced force which means infantry. This is especially true since last game it was his infantry that spotted my trap, not his tanks. However, I'm not going to take much infantry. I find it tedious on this size map. Instead I will rely on armoured cars to shred his infantry and provide me good recon. In the end, this is my force selection: Tank Battalion (all Churchill VII, Churchill VIII and Stuart VI) - deleted C Squadron Antitank Battery [self-propelled] (all Achilles) - deleted 4 Troop Armoured Car Squadron (all Daimler II) - deleted 5, 6 and 7 Troop 4 x Scout Detachments to round it out to exactly 20,000 points All units are Veteran, High motivation, Fit and +1 leadership. By selecting all the same it made it easy to select the forces. For setup, I just tried to keep all the units together and place them in a way they could move out quickly. I hate convey problems in this game. I intend to rush the closest two objectives with Stuarts and armoured cars these would be "Town" and "Village and Railway Crossing". No way I can get to the other one before him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatmasta Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Sounds like big problems from the beginning without infantry. I doubt the armored cars will do good job providing support. Though I don't know whats the map like, but if it has considerable amount of cover, they will quickly get to the hands of the tank hunters. But the fight is very interesting and will be cool to see how the battle unfolds. I hope I'm totally wrong with my prediction 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Stormy, windy, rainy sounds like the worst possible conditions to choose almost all armor and vehicles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatmasta Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Seeing the map in the other thread I'd think it will hard to take control of those victory areas as they are quite urban areas. And especially in the weather conditions. Should be quite easy to ambush the armor with the shreks and fausts. But good luck with the job ahead! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 Sounds like big problems from the beginning without infantry. I doubt the armored cars will do good job providing support. Though I don't know whats the map like, but if it has considerable amount of cover, they will quickly get to the hands of the tank hunters. But the fight is very interesting and will be cool to see how the battle unfolds. I hope I'm totally wrong with my prediction It wouldn't be the first time I went out on a limb and made an error. We'll see how it unfolds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 Stormy, windy, rainy sounds like the worst possible conditions to choose almost all armor and vehicles. Going to be very interesting for sure. However, in turn 3 (you will see posts soon) a Churchill got sight of a Halftrack at 1100m so visibility is not too bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 Seeing the map in the other thread I'd think it will hard to take control of those victory areas as they are quite urban areas. And especially in the weather conditions. Should be quite easy to ambush the armor with the shreks and fausts. But good luck with the job ahead! We'll see. Also, I have enough armour to pound the heck out of his positions if I have to. I give you the right to say "I told you so" when I fail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Going to be very interesting for sure. However, in turn 3 (you will see posts soon) a Churchill got sight of a Halftrack at 1100m so visibility is not too bad. I was thinking more in terms of getting bogged down, while infantry move and ambush as they please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 BTW, before I continue, let me say that I know my friend Ian is going to do a far better job reporting on this then me. Please forgive me. I'm going to do my best with the time I have available for this. It is annoying that I cannot zoom out the map to see the entire thing. They really should add that capability. You would think that a bird's eye (or god's eye if you will) view would be something you would want. Anyway, here's the view of my setup force. Right now it looks like a giant collection of vehicles. I also see that I am restricted to 20K size images as attachments (is that really true?????). For now I will put them on my server and link to them. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic_20k_setup.jpg That plan is to have Stuarts and Armored Cars move into the town. A Troop of Achilles will take position on a ridge overlooking the approach to the town. I will scream a Stuart through the village with railway to get an advance look on anything coming from that flank. A troop of Achilles will be set up protecting the Village and I will have some units go in. Above the Village (forgive me, I still can't figure out the goofy compass in this game) is a non-objective hamlet. It is a good place to position myself in case he puts stuff across the main bridge. We'll see what happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I agree that you need more inf if the map has average cover/buildings etc. The inf are the ones who do your recon and hold ground, not vehicles (at least on the average CMBN maps). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 ... Above the Village (forgive me, I still can't figure out the goofy compass in this game) is a non-objective hamlet. ... I too, couldn't figure out the compass. Get this modded version, can't recommend it highly enough. I can't remember ( sorry <hangs head> ) whose mod it is, but I'm sure someone else will be able to inform you shortly. In other respects, I'd reiterate what most have said here, I think no infantry is a mistake. For myself, if I was going "infantry-lite", I'd only spend 1/3 or 1/2 my points on infantry. You may be able to dominate the ground, but you're never going to winkle out every last enemy infantryman from the Victory Locations which pretty much means he's going to hold them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatmasta Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You may be able to dominate the ground, but you're never going to winkle out every last enemy infantryman from the Victory Locations which pretty much means he's going to hold them. But if the takes them first with the fast recon vehicles and won't let the enemy infantry into the victory areas at all. Definitely not an easy task though. And if the infantry get's into the VL's, then it will be very hard to flush them out as you said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 All>> I have company visiting from out of town until Tuesday. That will affect how often I can play / update this thread. Just wanted to let you know so you don't think this is going to die. We're going to see it through. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 I too, couldn't figure out the compass. Get this modded version, can't recommend it highly enough. I can't remember ( sorry <hangs head> ) whose mod it is, but I'm sure someone else will be able to inform you shortly. In other respects, I'd reiterate what most have said here, I think no infantry is a mistake. For myself, if I was going "infantry-lite", I'd only spend 1/3 or 1/2 my points on infantry. You may be able to dominate the ground, but you're never going to winkle out every last enemy infantryman from the Victory Locations which pretty much means he's going to hold them. Thanks for the tip on the compass. Like I said, for the infantry, too late to change now, plus I want to see what I can do, plus plus everyone here gets "I told you so" rights. :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I also see that I am restricted to 20K size images as attachments (is that really true?????). For now I will put them on my server and link to them. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic_20k_setup.jpg That is correct. The answer is to post them in Imgur, photobucket or one of another dozen or so photo stashing sites. Then you just copy the BB link. No issues with size then though you will want to crop so it displays better. Here is Sergei's how to for posting. Really good clear explanation with lots of helpful tips. I keep this as a favorite to reference back to periodically. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=97288 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 All>> I have company visiting from out of town until Tuesday. That will affect how often I can play / update this thread. Just wanted to let you know so you don't think this is going to die. We're going to see it through. Yes, fine, but how does company visiting SLOW your play? Wouldn't any houseguest be eager to sit behind their host and watch, with bated breath, as he plans his 20,000 pt. move? Wretched ingrates. They probably expect to use your indoor plumbing, as well. (Make them play: you know they want to drive your tanks! ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Yes, fine, but how does company visiting SLOW your play? Wouldn't any houseguest be eager to sit behind their host and watch, with bated breath, as he plans his 20,000 pt. move? Wretched ingrates. They probably expect to use your indoor plumbing, as well. (Make them play: you know they want to drive your tanks! ) That that is both funny and very true! However, even more funny when you consider my 'guest' is my mom. :-) Actually, we are going to go to the Canadian War Museum tomorrow so not all bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 First, a note on objective names. For the purposes of these posts, I will refer to the three objectives as: Town: the large town to the left of my force (the way I picture it) Railway: Marked as "Village and railway crossing" on map, directly in front of my forces Road: Marked as "Village and road crossing" across the river from me, kitty corner to my forces. I should be able to reach both Town and Railway before him. Road is deep in his territory so I am not even going to try for it. In fact, at first, I will try to only hold Town and Railway. Depending on how things turn out, I may not even assault Road. I won't bore you (or me, I don't want to spend the time) with the details of the turns up to this point. Suffice to say my units are rapidly moving into position as planned. I avoided convoy congestion by staging orders properly and not moving out all the units at once. Here are a few screen shots of things moving into position. This shot shows my forces at 1:58 approaching the objectives http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_58_done.jpg This shot shows my forces clearly in the objectives at 1:57. All good so far! http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_57_done.jpg Right at the end of the turn 1:57, one of my Churchills spotted a Half Track with a 20mm gun cresting a hill on the other side of the river. Effectively moving across the back of the map toward the railway crossing. Lunch time! Target that vehicle! http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_57_target_done.jpg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Interesting turn. Clearly the half track also say the Chruchill and the commander screamed "backup!" (in German of course). They managed to duck behind a hill before I could get a shot off. Damn. No first blood for me. At the very end of this turn, that same group of Churchills were spotted by a Panther....Panther???? He's got Panthers??? OMG! I have to give up now, I cannot defeat a Panther...wait, he's probably got many, even thousands of them!! Argggg! [OK, back from the brink] I cannot take them on head to head, especially at rank. I gave the troop orders to scream ahead and get off the rise...actually he can only see two. The third one I did not want to risk moving him into view so I told him to pull ahead into the trees at least. Scary! Here you can see the Panther, just behind the Road objective. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_56_panther_done.jpg The above image also shows how he has to move across a lot of terrain to get to me. He either has to cross the river on the road on the left or zoom across (like I assume he was trying to do with his half track) and either cross the railway bridge (we found out last game that Panthers don't fit across it!) or another road bridge on the far right. To update you on my objectives, this is what it looks like on the Railway objective. It is firmly in my hands. He's going to have to dig me out or pound the snot out of my with artillery (could happen). http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_56_rail_done.jpg The town objective is also clearly in my hands. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_56_town_done.jpg I am keeping a lot of reserves. I don't know where his main thrust will come from and I don't know what kind of artillery rain I could face. However, I am moving up a few troops of Chruchills to back up these objectives. For now they are mine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Why aren't you posting the pictures in the thread? It's pretty easy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatmasta Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 This fight actually is very interesting! As we all have been questioning the armor heavy troop selection it would actually be interesting to play several all armor vs all infantry type of game in semi urban / forest terrain and see if those real warfare tacticians are correct about the infantry vs armor fights. No doubt that in open terrain armor will always (if not backed up my massive amounts of at weapons) overrun infantry formations. First example of this kind which comes to my mind is the Chechen wars where the Russians tried to invade Grosnyi mostly with armored units and got very badly beaten. Does anyone have other similar examples? Especially the events where armored formations were victorius. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 The Mighty Chruchill! That Panther managed to get 3 shots off at my Chruchill. The first 2 hit the turret to no effect. That's impressive in my books. The third shot when high and missed just before my Churchill dropped to lower terrain and the Panther lost LOS. A new contact near where that half track was - a Stug III. Personally, those are my favorite weapons in the game. I've lost a few due to not having a turret, but I think the low profile is worth it. I will have to be careful with those. So it seems that his main force is going to cut across and attack the Road objective. I am sending a few more troops of Churchills to renforce. I'm trying to decide which is the best place for me to engage him. Since I reached the objective first and have advanced scouts, I can choose the terrain. I haven't yet found a nice location to cover the approaches. When I do, I will put the Achilles there. I think, so far, I have the tactical advantage. My scouts are ahead and nothing can get by without me spotting it and I hold 2 out of three objectives. Going to be interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Well that 20mm half track sure wants to die. He drove right past my Stuart forward scout. Why did he drive right past me and I only spot him after? Probably that lame 7 second spotting interval. They should really drop that for play my email games. Annoying. Anyway, ordered the Stuart to hunt him down. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_54.jpg I'm tempted to send a whole ton of Churchills across the river to intercept him, however, this may just be a feint. His main force might be going toward the Town, not the Railway. In the Town I am positioning a Stuart to watch the approach and sending some more armored cars around to see if he has sent anything this way. No other contacts yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dungeontiger Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Not for me...."When a man with a Staghound mets a man with a Stug, the man with the Stug always wins..." [Clint Eastwood fans will get the reference]. The Stag did its job and spotted his defenses, it just was not supposed to die. He has at least one Stug nicely positioned in a treeline on overwatch. His first shot went high and landed behind the Stag. The Stag still did not spot the shooter. I cannot blame the 7 second spotting cycle for this one. The Stug is well hidden. The second shot penetrated and went right through. You can see that since there is a second giant hole behind him. At this point the Stug is spotted by the 3rd shot takes out the Stag. First blood for the Germans. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_53_stag_hit.jpg For the half track I was hunting, I messed up the orders - I issued a hunt order which is next to useless in this game (in my opinion). The Stuart advanced, caught a fleeting glance of the half track screaming away and stopped. It then lost contact and sat there. What I wanted of course, was for it to keep going. This turn I issued a fast move order. He's also screaming ahead into the the waiting arms of the other two Stuarts in the troop. Clearly he's scouting and I'm going to make him pay eventually. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_53_railway.jpg As a side note, the orders in this game need to get more complex. Don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging the game - its the best out there - but it can always be improved. On the Town side, there are still not contacts and I have good sighting. This could mean that he's going to level the area with artillery soon (remember we have an agreed upon 10 or 15 minute delay on artillery). In the last epic battle we did on this map, I leveled (I mean LEVELED) the town with battleship artillery. Either he's afraid I'm going to do it again or he's planning on hitting me with large caliber rockets. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_53_town_no_contact.jpg Still its an opportunity I don't think I can afford to miss. I'm going to send a force of Chruchills and Achilles around and either ambush him or go after the Road crossing. The force is screened with a troop of armored cars so I should not be surprised like King Tigers or something. http://kingtigerbooks.com/combat_mission/epic1_53_town_plan.jpg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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