Gogol Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Hi , do we just have to keep them close to the related AT/MG ? how far ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Correct. IIRC, the max distance for ammo sharing is two action spots (i.e., one empty action spot between the AT/MG and the bearer team). Note that ammo sharing is automatic, and won't happen until a unit runs out of ammo. That is, in the case of ammo bearer teams and heavy weapons, once the Gun/Mortar/MG has completely run out of ammo, it will begin pulling from the bearer team's supply, and not before this. Also, keep in mind that to share ammo, the units have to be from the same platoon -- you can't (for example) shift a ammo bearer team from one AT gun platoon, and have them share their ammo with an AT gun from another platoon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Its easy to test this out. During the game move the ammo bearers away and watch the gun's ammo count suddenly drop after a certain distance. (this won't work at setup as the ammo hasn't been divided up yet.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gogol Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 thank you mates 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I recently placed two 60mm mortar teams adjacent just below a 4th plt leader in a 3rd story window. They both temporarily showed 64 bombs, but they ran out after firing 32 each. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Gov't accounting at it's best! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I recently placed two 60mm mortar teams adjacent just below a 4th plt leader in a 3rd story window. They both temporarily showed 64 bombs, but they ran out after firing 32 each. Not sure if you're joking or not, but just in case anyone wasn't aware: The UI shows 2 ammo counts for a unit. The first, towards the left side of the UI, shows the ammo that unit is actually carrying. The second, towards the right side of the UI, shows the ammo that is currently available to that unit -- that is, the ammo which it is carrying, as well as any ammo of the same type carried by any nearby friendly units it is capable of sharing with. So, in the case of two adjacent 60mm mortar teams from the same platoon, each carrying 32 60mm shells, the available ammo count will show 64 60mm for each, even though there is actually a total of 64 rounds available, between the two tubes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 It's worth bearing the ammo sharing rules in mind when you're looking at your indirect arty interface for on-map mortars too. If your 81mms are batteried up, you might think each tube has as many bombs available as, in fact, the whole section (when weapons platoons are divided into sections, only teams from the same section can sahre ammo) or platoon does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Not sure if you're joking or not, but just in case anyone wasn't aware: The UI shows 2 ammo counts for a unit. The first, towards the left side of the UI, shows the ammo that unit is actually carrying. The second, towards the right side of the UI, shows the ammo that is currently available to that unit -- that is, the ammo which it is carrying, as well as any ammo of the same type carried by any nearby friendly units it is capable of sharing with. So, in the case of two adjacent 60mm mortar teams from the same platoon, each carrying 32 60mm shells, the available ammo count will show 64 60mm for each, even though there is actually a total of 64 rounds available, between the two tubes. I was not joking. I think the counting was as you said. Some how he rounds were double counted for each. And the real total was 32 each or 64 total. It just appeared odd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindlewolf Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Hi , do we just have to keep them close to the related AT/MG ? how far ? I'm sure if you have ammo trucks that have the ammo type loaded,and place them near your units this helps too.Noticed that by accident in one of the Engel scenarios,moved trucks to safety near mortars and their ammo count when up on the next turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmox Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 i wouldnt mind the aquire function being available on this either. so,for example,my mortar crew aquire the ammo from the nearby bearer,enabling the bearer to go get more,instead of waiting for the team to run out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 i wouldnt mind the aquire function being available on this either. so,for example,my mortar crew aquire the ammo from the nearby bearer,enabling the bearer to go get more,instead of waiting for the team to run out Yeah, that would be a *good thing*. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 A functional inventory management system would be one of the things high on my wish list. It'd be nice to be able to drag-and-drop between "close enough" entities, and an "equalise" option would be splendid. A thought occurs: does the Leadership rating of a unit affect how well supplied they are at the start of a battle? Seems to me it should, and the experience rating should affect it too. One 'trope' of combat zone accounts I've read is that troops did their very best to cadge and hoard materiel, above and beyond "establishment"; does the game attempt to reflect the acquisitive tendencies of experienced troops and officers, or are the numbers of rounds/grenades carried by a pTroop "game-determined" rather than based on "manuals"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 A functional inventory management system would be one of the things high on my wish list. It'd be nice to be able to drag-and-drop between "close enough" entities, and an "equalise" option would be splendid. A thought occurs: does the Leadership rating of a unit affect how well supplied they are at the start of a battle? Seems to me it should, and the experience rating should affect it too. One 'trope' of combat zone accounts I've read is that troops did their very best to cadge and hoard materiel, above and beyond "establishment"; does the game attempt to reflect the acquisitive tendencies of experienced troops and officers, or are the numbers of rounds/grenades carried by a pTroop "game-determined" rather than based on "manuals"? Leadership, and and of itself, does not affect ammo supply or equipment in the game. However, there is nothing to stop Scenario/Campaign designers from giving more experienced/better led troops better supplies, and/or increasing the refit/resupply level in campaigns that use more experienced forces. IMHO, this is the way it should be -- better to leave the details up to the designers than try to come up with some sort of leadership/experience "scrounging bonus" algorithm, which would be tricky to get to work right and wouldn't be realistic for all situations anyway. As to the rest, I do think some sort of improved ammo management/transfer system would be good. At the very least, it would be a GREAT addition to be able to do bulk transfers ammo from bearer teams to the heavy weapons they are related to, rather than the present system where supply teams dole out ammo one bullet/shell at a time, and only once the parent unit is totally dry. However, when and if we get a more comprehensive ammo swap/share system, there probably should still be at least some qualifications on when and how the player can move ammo between units. Equalizing ammo amongst squads/teams in a platoon would definitely be good. And ammo bearer teams should definitely be able to give their ammo related units, because that's their job. But on the other hand, I don't think it would be very realistic to allow a player to to transfer all of the ammo from a conscript Rifle Company to another, more experienced Company -- this would basically allow QB players to buy low-experience units, and use them as mobile ammo caches. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 But on the other hand, I don't think it would be very realistic to allow a player to to transfer all of the ammo from a conscript Rifle Company to another, more experienced Company... Maybe "equalise" would be the limit between formations that wouldn't naturally share ammo according to current rules? Unless the donor unit has less political clout than the demandor... Would an SS officer be able to browbeat some Ostfront lieutenant into turning over all their ammo? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Maybe "equalise" would be the limit between formations that wouldn't naturally share ammo according to current rules? Unless the donor unit has less political clout than the demandor... Would an SS officer be able to browbeat some Ostfront lieutenant into turning over all their ammo? Probably, sometimes. But political considerations like this are largely out of CM's scope, and as I noted giving the player this kind power could lead to some pretty gamey stuff. But yes, as far as ammo sharing/management amongst units other than ammo bearers, some sort "Equalize ammo" function would be much more difficult to exploit in a gamey manner than simply giving the player the power to move ammo between units however he pleases. So the results of a game function like this would probably be pretty realistic, at least when you're looking at sharing ammo amongst units in the same platoon. Even equalizing ammo across a Company probably wouldn't be unrealistic, but this would also probably be much more complex to implement in a realistic manner. Issues like, "How close to the units have to be to equalize ammo?", "How long does it take?", "Are runners involved?", "What if one or more units involved are suppressed?" etc. all need to be dealt with, and these are probably more easily solved at the intra-platoon level than higher levels. I see ammo bearers a little differently. Since their primary function is schlepping ammo around and giving it to other unit(s), IMHO some sort of less restrictive ammo transfer system with functionality more like the current "acquire" command is appropriate for these units specifically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 One thing I'd like to see is ammo counts for certain calibers (in the Acquire GUI) to reflect the magazine size of the weapon in which they're typically used. For example, .45 cal rounds in increments of 30 or .30 Carbine ammo in increments of 15 rounds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 One thing I'd like to see is ammo counts for certain calibers (in the Acquire GUI) to reflect the magazine size of the weapon in which they're typically used. For example, .45 cal rounds in increments of 30 or .30 Carbine ammo in increments of 15 rounds. It gets a bit more complicated when you're looking at rifle calibre rounds though: are those 7.92 rounds loose, belted up for MG use or clipped up for the KAR98? Obviously you could distinguish between the two methods (I doubt there were many rounds on the battlefield that weren't in belts or clips, and if there were, they'd not be much use in the timescales we deal with) of packaging in the source's inventory, and therefore in the unit's inventory too. The same applies to pistol rounds: are they for the sidearm or the SMG? I suspect there's only a small minority of players that would want a "convert ammo packaging" option for units (how many rounds per minute can you get out of magazines for M1911A and into those for tommyguns? Are we tracking how many magazines for each type of weapon a squad/trooper has available, and whether they've managed to hang on to all their empties...? Do we need to track Luger/Walther clips for Germans, or were they interchangeable; I don't think they were?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 It gets a bit more complicated when you're looking at rifle calibre rounds though: are those 7.92 rounds loose, belted up for MG use or clipped up for the KAR98? Obviously you could distinguish between the two methods (I doubt there were many rounds on the battlefield that weren't in belts or clips, and if there were, they'd not be much use in the timescales we deal with) of packaging in the source's inventory, and therefore in the unit's inventory too. The same applies to pistol rounds: are they for the sidearm or the SMG? I suspect there's only a small minority of players that would want a "convert ammo packaging" option for units (how many rounds per minute can you get out of magazines for M1911A and into those for tommyguns? Are we tracking how many magazines for each type of weapon a squad/trooper has available, and whether they've managed to hang on to all their empties...? Do we need to track Luger/Walther clips for Germans, or were they interchangeable; I don't think they were?) Yeah, I'm probably in the minority with this idea. It just seems like we have some oddball ammo counts in the Acquire menu right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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