poesel Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I've rerun the tests and the results look much better now. One odd thing was that the US mortars took significantly longer (2-3 minutes) for FFE (in direct fire mode). This is only a single test but something too look at again. The comparison is always first v1.01 and then v1.10, DR first then US from top to bottom. Shooting is from the left. 450m: DR US 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 850m: DR US 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 1250m: DR US 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreck Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I assume that "DR" means "Germans" for us English-speaking types? ("Deusche Reich"?) The scatter here looks much better. In particular the much higher scatter uprange/downrange is welcome. I would like to see what it is at very short ranges, though, like 100-200m. (The accuracy breakpoint I found was 320m.) It is these very low ranges where the CMBN mortars really break the game-as-simulation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Yes, 'DR' = 'Deutsches Reich' - the official name of the german nation from 1871 to 1945. You are not the first to ask - somehow this little tidbit of information must have missed all the grogs here. I'll try to setup a 100-200-300m range tomorrow and see what happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 This looks very much improved. @poesel: A very important correction: It is common misbelieve, that the DR did cease to exist in 1945. A state does not cease to exist if it's government is arrested by occupying foreign forces. According to international law this was and is an illegal act. Also according to internatinal law occupying forces have no right to dissolve states. The legal german government and Karl Dönitz, the head of state was arrested (against international laws) and the DR still exists, the constitution of Weimar is still in place, but the state is not capable to act. Don't believe me? Even the high court of the FRG had to admit on 31.07.1973 that the DR never ceased to exist (BVGU 2BvF1/73)! And it get's even more interesting: On July 17th 1990 the Alliies, represented by James Baker, US foreign minister, deleted Art. 23 of the Grundgesetz! On Sept. 29 1990 this was officially announced from the FRG in the "Bundesanzeiger", that Art. 23 GG was officially deleted! With the deletion of Art. 23 the FRG completely lost it's territory of validity, because this article named the countries, for which the GG was valid (http://lexetius.com/GG/23#2 (scroll down at bottom of page)). Two years, after the FRG had ceased to exist a new Art. 23 was written down. But since the FRG had ceased to exist at last on Sept. 29 1990, it could not declare a new Art. 23 in 1992. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 This looks very much improved. @poesel: A very important correction: It is common misbelieve, that the DR did cease to exist in 1945. A state does not cease to exist if it's government is arrested by occupying foreign forces. According to international law this was and is an illegal act. Also according to internatinal law occupying forces have no right to dissolve states. The legal german government and Karl Dönitz, the head of state was arrested (against international laws) and the DR still exists, the constitution of Weimar is still in place, but the state is not capable to act. Don't believe me? Even the high court of the FRG had to admit on 31.07.1973 that the DR never ceased to exist (BVGU 2BvF1/73)! And it get's even more interesting: On July 17th 1990 the Alliies, represented by James Baker, US foreign minister, deleted Art. 23 of the Grundgesetz! On Sept. 29 1990 this was officially announced from the FRG in the "Bundesanzeiger", that Art. 23 GG was officially deleted! With the deletion of Art. 23 the FRG completely lost it's territory of validity, because this article named the countries, for which the GG was valid (http://lexetius.com/GG/23#2 (scroll down at bottom of page)). Two years, after the FRG had ceased to exist a new Art. 23 was written down. But since the FRG had ceased to exist at last on Sept. 29 1990, it could not declare a new Art. 23 in 1992. Kind of rich to try and get behind international law after flagrantly violating any sense of human morality those laws were based on. It's also an immoral act to attempt to exterminate entire peoples. That didn't stop the Reich though so I think I can safely say we stomped the Reich which had completely removed itself from international protection and it ain't coming back. By the way, remember a country called Poland? I believe the Reich attempted to do exactly what you said is illegal there...didn't seem to phase them that it was a violation of international law...hmmm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sburke, you are mixing completely different aspects, lies and propaganda together. But rabulistic can not replace valid arguments about the factual discussion of deletion of Art. 23 GG and the non-existance of the FRG since and the parallel existance of the Reich. So if you are not interested in this topic and have no factual and objective knowledge, then please do not disturb a pure factual discussion about the existance of the Reich with your anti-german hate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Steiner, take your old and tired BS somewhere else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 In most forums you would get banned for this sort of massive thread derail. Have some respect Steiner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sburke, you are mixing completely different aspects, lies and propaganda together. But that can not replace valid arguments about the factual discussion of deletion of Art. 23 GG and the non-existance of the FRG since and the parallel existance of the Reich. So if you are not interested in this topic and have no factual and objective knowledge, then please do not disturb a pure factual discussion about the existance of the Reich with your anti-german hate. It isn't anti German hate, though good try to cry victim to exactly what the Reich proselytized. The German people are not the Reich and want nothing to do with it's legacy. Fact - The Reich did occupy and attempt to eliminate the Polish government Fact - The Reich did practice genocide Fact - The Reich was finally stomped after embarking on it's attempt to achieve world dominance Fact - The German people as a whole do not want to re restablish the Reich Those who try to paint the Reich as anything other than one of the darkest moments of humanity and a gut check of what we are capable of are the ones living in lies and propaganda. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Poesel mentioned a false fact about the DR and i explained the reasons and named the facts proving it wrong. That's all. So why the artificial excitement of the anti-german hate-brigade? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 sburke, what you are claiming has NOTHING to do with the legal ramifications. You may propagate, that an alleged murderer has lost all rights or that the winner can excuse everything by blaming the loser. I believe the law must be respected. Everything else is tyranny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 sburke, what you are claiming has NOTHING to do with the legal ramifications. You may propagate, that an alleged murderer has lost all rights or that the winner can excuse everything by blaming the loser. I believe the law must be respected. Everything else is tyranny. Oh yeah I forgot, respecting the law was a high point for the Reich. A little arson at the Reichstag, yeah that would fit well within that. Hell I don't know why I bother with someone arguing for something so blatantly ridiculous, but I just can't let it pass. Sorry Steiner just not gonna let it go and have you defend such a heinous regime and hide behind the cloak of international law. Tell that to the millions of victims of the regime that IT should be the one we worry about protecting. No sorry that is just not acceptable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Guys, not here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sorry Phil, it just hits a real sore spot. I'll shut up now. :-P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Steiner, No one here is anti-German, just anti-Nazi. And justly so. So please keep your Nazi fantasies out of this thread about mortars. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Steiner, No one here is anti-German, just anti-Nazi. And justly so. So please keep your Nazi fantasies out of this thread about mortars. Thanks. Not true. I'm a little anti-German. But only if you give them uniforms, ideology, and firearms, all at once. If you keep all three away from them, they make good cars and keep their cities clean. Smiley face, dammit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The mortar dispersion does look much more realistic. Artillery did seem uncommonly powerful particularly on small maps. The game is coming along - at last. PS re the legal definition of states I have no problem with factual information whatever the subject matter. In that it proves that the law is an ass thats all to the good. : ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Fun fact: quite a while ago someone tried this (or a similar) loophole to not have to pay a speeding ticket(!) to the non-existant state of Saxony... Guess what? He lost. But the court probably had a good laugh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreck Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hmm, Steiner makes a legalistic quibble. Given a choice between the actual reality of human affairs, and a hypothetical emanation of "international law", I would pick the reality every time. Perhaps Nazi Germany still does exist in some entirely abstract way, but I admit that whatever way this is is lost on me. It sure appears to me that the Nazi regime was conquered and militarily occupied, their human organization dismantled with extreme prejudice including the killing of most of the leaders, and a new organization constructed in its place, which was built fresh using none of the men from the former organization. And their descendants are now officially taught to revile them, their government formula, and all its works. This is about as total a defeat as I can imagine. More testing, less kvetching. Hey if I had CW I'd be testing instead of wasting my time arguing about angels dancing on heads of pins. So what about that 200m test? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Poesel mentioned a false fact about the DR and i explained the reasons and named the facts proving it wrong. That's all. So why the artificial excitement of the anti-german hate-brigade? Our legal scholars tried informing the grandson of Admiral Doenitz that he should return to the Chancellery post haste. Germany awaits! But apparently he prefers to continue managing his Opel dealership. On the bright side, he really appreciates the new mortar dispersion pattern. Far, far more realistic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 When I said "Guys, not here", I meant "all you guys" and "not on this forum". So... let it be, please. It's a fascinating topic, but *much* better suited to other forums. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 As promised I did a test with 100, 200 and 300m for both US and DR 81mm mortars. Sorry, no pictures, because theres nothing to see. The dispersion is linear with distance, the form is oval. Although at these distances its a very flat oval. At 100m its nearly a circle - one you wouldn't like to stand in. For me the issue is solved. Thanks to BFC for fixing it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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