Denis1973 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I have a trouble in one of my PBEM game and decide to make a test. Results looks for me as a bug o something strange. Regular, normal motivation US Co without command modifications (0 for all commanders). 1st Plt (- one Sq) at open field. 3rd Plt slightly behind 1st under cover (stone wall). 2nd Plt, 1st Sq of 1st Plt, XO and CoHQ at rear area, behind hedge and can't see 1&2 Plt's. Radio link between Co and Plt HQs established. 1/1Plt out of contact with Plt Hq but under command of CoHQ (eye&mouth icons) Germans placed at ambush position to allow them to wipe out 1st Plt. Game started. 1Plt(-) wiped out. 3Plt receive little fire and 'cautious', one Sq 'rattled'. 2Plt and CoHQ 'cautious'. 1/1Plt - 'panic'!!!:eek: More than this, they CAN see the enemy position, as they are at frontline! Remember, CoHQ and 2Plt can't see nothing, even friendly 3Plt (I play at Iron level). How this could happen? Communication between 1Sq/1Plt and 1Plt HQ is broken. 1/1Plt don't receive any bullet from enemy. Here is two pics for explanation: this is how battle looks for 1sq/1plt. Men are panicked and can see all enemy despite the C2 link is broken this what CoHQ can see - nothing. Despite unbroken C2 link to 3rd Plt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Just a guess but I think you might be seeing the "global" view because your 1st Squad is panicked and out of your control. EDIT: Actually that must be the case because there is no way the squad could have full icon full ID spotting of the German units, they would only have ? icons at best if the spotting info was sent to them. As for how the panic propagates to the other unit, that is a known issue with the way global morale works, which does not follow C2 and is instantly known like some kind of disturbance in the force. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis1973 Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 the way global morale works, which does not follow C2 and is instantly known like some kind of disturbance in the force. I have expected that my forces can be thrilled by what happens with their mates right at theirs eyes. To check this, I specially placed 3rd Plt to allow them to see the carnage. But they are just in 'cautious' state, except one Sq that received some fire and casualties. So this is known bug? I don't know this...Any chance to heal it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Must be quantum effects. I believe there are some quantum effects that can explain this FTL Communication But seriously I have recently see the same thing. I had a rattled platoon that had reloaded into their Half tracks to move quickly to assault across a bridge. The plan was to ride the HTs up to the bridge - where I knew it was safe, dismount and assault across the bridge to support another platoon that was already across and fighting for the village beyond. The first squad made it across the bridge and came under fire and became shattered. So, to, did the other two squads and one machine gun team plus two HT crews. None of the teams that were still in their HTs driving forward could see the guys across the bridge yet same goes for the HQ unit - my bad. I figured they were close enough but thought it was a bit odd. Looks like you found out that there are some morale effects that work on a platoon level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Obviously 1/1 squad is freaking out because all of their close buddies just got wiped out. Even thought 1/1 squad is out of C2 with their platoon leader, they are right next to the company commander who has a radio C2 with the 1st platoon HQ and 3rd Plt HQ who is witnessing the slaughter. Anyway, that's my "realistic" take on why the 1/1 is panicked. Probably if you completely isolated 1/1 so that has no C2 at all, then you'd still get the same result. How many times have you run this test? It'd be interesting to see if the 1/1 squad gets panicked every time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis1973 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Obviously 1/1 squad is freaking out because all of their close buddies just got wiped out. Even thought 1/1 squad is out of C2 with their platoon leader, they are right next to the company commander who has a radio C2 with the 1st platoon HQ and 3rd Plt HQ who is witnessing the slaughter. My point is that the 1/1 SQ must be in more good morale condition than 3rd PLT. Just because they only HEARD about carnage, not SEEN it. In other words - what will be for one more impressive: look how his mates died right before his eyes or listen about this on radio or TV? How many times have you run this test? It'd be interesting to see if the 1/1 squad gets panicked every time. Three times. Time when SQ got panicked varied slightly. And unit status at the end of turn too (rattled or panicked) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 My point is that the 1/1 SQ must be in more good morale condition than 3rd PLT. Just because they only HEARD about carnage, not SEEN it. In other words - what will be for one more impressive: look how his mates died right before his eyes or listen about this on radio or TV? I agree with you, seeing the carnage should certainly have more of an affect on a squad. However, I don't think CM is modeled to think that way. More than likely it is some sort of global morale as others have suggested, and the 1/1 suffers more because it is their platoon that gets wiped out. Try the battle a few more times, but this time put the 1/1 squad in a remote area away from all other units (out of C2 with everyone). I think you will get the same result because it is a global morale issue - regardless of whether the 1/1 squad can see or hear about the carnage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Just a guess but I think you might be seeing the "global" view because your 1st Squad is panicked and out of your control. This is exactly what it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis1973 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 put the 1/1 squad in a remote area away from all other units (out of C2 with everyone). I think you will get the same result because it is a global morale issue Tested this way. As you (an me too) expected result was the same. Degree of morale drop depended only from how many casualties were in 1st PLT. This issue somewhat surprised me. I expected more tactical flexibility from game. But now it looks like one step forward and one step back since it make possible to split squads but prevent (by morale penalty) to split platoons And vice versa CM1 allowed to split platoons (1-2 squads can be put under the battalion or company HQ command, while others stay under PltHQ) and disallow to split squads (only with morale penalty). Can BF team allow both kind of splitting to provide more battlefield flexibility? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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