How do you handle unit disobedience?

[MOSwas71331]

Here is a situation I recently faced, and I have no idea how (1) to prevent it happening, (2) to tell when it is going to happen, (3) optimally to react when it happens.

I have a two-man US light machine gun team with a target arc which is narrow (less than 20 degrees) and short (about 25 meters). The team has been in its location with this arc for a few minutes (so it shouldn't be fatigued) and has never been fired on (so it shouldn't be unusually demoralized). I do not change the team's position or its target arc as the situation continues.

A ? icon appears in the arc about 40 sec into turn n, and remains in the arc for the rest of the turn. Neither LMG team member fires.

In turn n+1, two ? icons and one identified icon for a two-man enemy team are in the arc for portions of the turn. (There's always at least one icon in the arc, but the icon count and their positions do change during the turn.) Neither LMG team member fires.

In turn n+2, there are icons in the arc and a small explosion about 20 meters away from my team. (I believe the explosion is a grenade tossed by an icon [actually by the Krauts the icon represents] in the arc. Neither of my men is injured by the explosion.) Neither LMG team member fires.

During the described turns, my LMG team member's states alternate between “spotting” and “cowering”. Obviously, they are “spotting” often enough to identify the two-man enemy team, but neither's state ever changes to “firing” –- which is what I wanted when I gave them a target arc.

This is an extreme example, but it's typical of my experience with the CM:BN demo. I hoped it might not occur in version 1.01 of the game (which I got on DVD for Christmas and opened early), but it did. Am I the only one experiencing such unit disobedience, or am I simply the only one frustrated by it?

[akd]

Solution: don't give your LMG teams such tiny arcs (I can't imagine what purpose it would serve). You are telling them not to engage until enemies are already in grenade range and the narrowness of the arc is preventing them from reacting to spotted targets before they move out of the arc (and the AI does not fire on ? marks). Plus, they are cowering because they are taking suppression, which further inhibits their ability to engage.

[Bruceov2]

I shoot them

[Mord]

Spankings...and no Blitzkrieg for a week...

Mord.

[Holman]

Giving any unit such a short-range target arc is pretty much the same thing as telling them to hold their fire. In fact, if they had actually seen an enemy (as opposed to just a ? icon, which indicates a suspected but not sighted contact) at thirty or forty meters, they probably wouldn't have held their fire anyway. Self-preservation would have caused them to open up.

If you really want to set up a close-range ambush, it can be done by combining the target arc with a "hide" command, but even this might not work with relatively inexperienced troops.

While some orders in CM are very specific, you can't expect complete micro-management to work. Units respond according to their training, skill, and other factors. Added to this semi-independence is the fact that they can't read your mind.

[Wreck]

Another thing I expect was happening here was your team was green, and/or had low motivation, and was not in contact with their HQ unit. Units like that tend to spend a lot of time cowering.

The solution is not to send units that are not capable of independent action off on their own. Keep 'em with the leader. And don't expect any units cut off from command to fight as well as those with a decent commander.

[whako]

I like to load up an HE round in my 75, aim nice and close to the disobedient unit/s and fire. Whoever survived that round gets the message clear and simple. I have transformed many green and veteran soldiers into hardened crack units from that practice. Almost supermen on meth if you will. Hope this helps

[dan/california]

I like to load up an HE round in my 75, aim nice and close to the disobedient unit/s and fire. Whoever survived that round gets the message clear and simple. I have transformed many green and veteran soldiers into hardened crack units from that practice. Almost supermen on meth if you will. Hope this helps

Details of caliber and technique aside it worked rather well for Stalin.

[ClarkWGriswold]

Your men obviously have some sort of issue spotting since enemy units are only showing up as ? icons, rather than as unit icons. My guess is that your men are behind a hedgerow or some other concealment and that you've given them a target arc in a direction that they simply cannot see. You're most likely getting ? icons based on sound contacts, and units won't fire at those. A screenshot would probably be very helpful in diagnosing the issue, but it's definitely related to poor spotting.

[ClarkWGriswold]

If you really want to set up a close-range ambush, it can be done by combining the target arc with a "hide" command, but even this might not work with relatively inexperienced troops.

I think it's been pretty universally recognized at this point that combining a target arc with the Hide command is a Bad Idea. Units that are hiding don't spot well and tend to get slaughtered before they even see a threat coming. The more inexperienced troops are, the worse their spotting is likely to be (especially if they're out of command).

[slysniper]

once you were willing to have your MG open up, why did you not take them off hide and remove the cover arc. The best command is face once you want units to spot and shoot a certain target. Did this whole thing play out in less than aminute of WEGO, likely not. I find once I want my men firing. I remove all restrictions , unless I am certain I do not want them changing directions to face a enemy on the flank or something, That would be the only time I leave the cover arc in play once the shooting starts