Antipersonel Mines and Tanks

[Wreck]

I did some testing of how tanks interact with AP mines. Set up a single-action-spot wide minefield across a small flat field, then ran a company of M4A1 Sherman (mid)s across it. Back and forth, numerous times, with the same tank running over the same minefield once on each turn.

Of immediate note is that all tanks buttoned up upon hitting a mine. All of the tanks took tread damage which increased with # mine hits, but none was immobilized. There were zero crew casualties (not even a wound) even after driving back and forth enough time to neutralize the field.

Initially the average tank hit several mines each turn (that is, there were more than one explosion per minefield per turn). Later as the fields declined fewer hits happened and sometimes tanks would drive across a minefield without any mine pop at all.

On the fifth time across, one of the minefields (out of 18 total) was neutralized. The number of neutralized fields (shown green w/ white X) then went as follows:

5 - 1

6 - 2

7 - 3

8 - 5

9 - 5

10 - 7

11 - 9

12 - 11

13 - 11

14 - 12

15 - 12

16 - 13 (here I started doing back-and-forth per turn)

18 - 14

20 - 17

22 - 18

No tank ever got immobilized. This suggests that immobilization from a single AP mine hit is not possible. Most of the tanks ended with their Track "hitpoints" in the red. At the end I took the worst-off tank and ran it over some fresh minefields -- another ~8 or so mine hits sufficed to immobilize it.

[Erwin]

"shown green w/ white X" sorry I only see b/w numbers and not sure what they mean.

[SlowMotion]

I think the results are what you might expect. It would be interesting to know whether you get more serious damage if you use some wheeled vehicle in your test.

[Wreck]

Erwin, in the game, a minefield that is known and neutralized is shown with a green sign with a white X on it. The numbers above are how many minefields were neutralized (second column) per turns of running over them with tanks (first column). Thus, half of the minefields (9 of 18) were neutralized on the 10th turn.

Since I observed mine hits per turn to decrease as the minefield was run over repeatedly, it is my guess that BF models each minefield N mines initially, where N decrease by 1 each time a mine is hit, and where the chance to hit a mine is proportionate to the # left in the field.

[Wreck]

Here's another test I ran, using the same setup. This time I just ran one tank at a time, and carefully counted the explosions of mines as it ran back and forth over the same minefield for a few turns. Did it with three tanks; here are the results in terms of number of mines detonated per turn:

                turn

tank#     1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 

tank1     5  4  3  0  1

tank2     4  6  2  1  0  0  0  0  1

tank3     5  3  0  2  2  2

(note again that these turns have two passes over the minefield, so they can be compared to those in the first test only by doubling the turn#.)

So we see that my earlier conjecture is correct. The minefields had, respectively, 13, 14, and 14 mines. Whether I missed an explosion in tank1, or the amounts vary, or perhaps sometimes you get duds -- I don't know. More testing would be required. However, it is fairly clear that chance to hit a mine is proportionate to #mines left in the field.

[Wreck]

One more test of individual tanks to see how many AP mine hits it takes to immobilize them. Here are the numbers for 5 tanks:

25, 22, 22, 21, 24

So you can see that it takes quite many to do the trick. The average number of hits required was ~23.

[Erwin]

Thanks Wreck... When you said "fields" I took that as "data fields" and was expecting some colored "powerpoint" type statistical pie chart presentation lol.

[Wreck]

Some more test data. I tried Stuarts, M8s, and some M3A1s running over AP minefields. All of these turned out to have fewer hitpoints in their tracks/wheels (or mine explosions affect them more), and so to take fewer mines to immobilize. Stuarts have almost the same hitpoints as there are AP mines in a minefield -- in most cases, the last mine hit both neutralized the minefield and immobilized the Stuart. M8s and halftracks have even fewer hitpoints, and are immobilized by perhaps 10 or so AP mine explosions.

In all cases, no crew were hurt, no vehicle was destroyed, knocked out, or abandoned. Basically, any armor at all seems to protect well enough against AP mines.

I also tested AT mines. These minefields are either 2 or 3 mines. All hits caused immediate immobilization. Stuarts had no further effects (besides suppression); no crew hurt, no other systems affected, etc. M8s can be destroyed by AT mines, including killing and wounding the crew. Same for halftracks. AT mines can be detected and taped by engineers, but this does not seem to do very much. (more testing needed of this.)

[Wreck]

Tested some mixed minefields. They have about 10 AP mines, and 1 or 2 AT mines.

Also tested soft vehicles (jeeps, trucks) on AP mines. Only a few mines would immobilize them -- 4 or so. AP mines never seem to hurt passengers on trucks. They did hurt some of the crew, but rarely. Hits on jeeps for both driver and passengers were pretty common. One cool thing is, the game is coded to have passengers take over from a driver who has died. Saw it happen.

Since I had them, tried soft vehicles on AT mines. Ouch. All passengers and crew killed in jeeps. In trucks, about 75% of passengers and all crew killed.

[BadgerDog]

I also tested AT mines. These minefields are either 2 or 3 mines. All hits caused immediate immobilization. Stuarts had no further effects (besides suppression); no crew hurt, no other systems affected, etc. M8s can be destroyed by AT mines, including killing and wounding the crew. Same for halftracks. AT mines can be detected and taped by engineers, but this does not seem to do very much. (more testing needed of this.)

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I just noticed this comment...

For my own clarity, are you saying that Stuart tanks weren't substantially damaged or disabled when running over AT mines? :confused:

Thanks ...

Regards,

Doug

[Vanir Ausf B]

Well, he did say they were immobilized. I would consider that substantially damaged

[BadgerDog]

Well, he did say they were immobilized. I would consider that substantially damaged

Thanks ... you're right... focused on the wrong text ...

I asked because I just had a Stuart run over at AT mine and there was no damage as it continued on its way ...

Saw a puff of smoke, but that was it....:confused:

Regards,

Doug

[Vanir Ausf B]

You seem to be lucky with tanks

[BadgerDog]

You seem to be lucky with tanks

Yea, except the Stuart wasn't mine... it was one of the bad guys ..

Regards,

Doug