Question re system loading of mod options

[Erwin]

I thought that when a mod has several options eg: tank numbers... that the system allocates them randomly - so one could have different numbers every time one loads a scenario with that tank.

However, every time I load the Dealership scenario, I find the tanks shown have the same numbers - it seems like it's always the first (default) mod option. ie: tank name.bmp

So, in what order would "tank name 2.bmp" and "tank name 3.bmp" be loaded... sequentially when there is more than one tank in the scenario?

[Erwin]

Since nobody seems to know... my (non-comprehensive) test indicates that the default tank name mod.bmp is always loaded first. Then if there is a 2nd tank, tank name mod option 2.bmp is loaded. If there is a third tank and a third mod option then tank name mod option 3.bmp is loaded.

If there are more tanks in the scenario than mod options I think that the 4th tank would then again have the default mod loaded. So, loading of mod options is NOT random, but sequential.

Presumably, this would be the same for uniforms. Jackets and pants then would always be the same combination for the first man, 2nd man, third man etc. UNLESS there were a different number of jacket and pants mod options. So, if there were 5 jackets and 3 pants options, the 4th man would have the 4th jacket and the 1st pants. Hence the "mishmash" look that we all love - but it's not random at all.

Just my theory... Anyone have other info to contradict this?

[Fuser]

I may test it later this evening and post my results here Erwin.

[mjkerner]

Erwin, I think you are correct. I am reasonably certain I read that is how CMSF did the uniforms...could be wrong, of course, but it a distinct memory in my addled brain.

[Mord]

Hate to spoil this for you Erwin, but the theory is wrong...the pants and shirts for unis are together on the bmp...the mish mash comes from making each file different and then assigning them sequential numbers, ex. One uni file gray pants and shirt, one uni file with camo pants and gray shirt, one uni file with camo shirt and gray pants. That's where the randomness comes in...it's user created.

And if vehicle textures aren't randomized how do you explain post #10? It has to be random or else Wyseman's and Aris' mods could co-exist. Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying?

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=100295&highlight=Mord

@MJ...Birdstrike uploaded a guide to the Repos explaining what you are talking about...but if I remember correctly it had to do with assigning gear and helmets to specific uni files.

Mord.

[Erwin]

Ok I see what you mean re the uniforms, I forgot that shirts and pants are in one graphics .bmp file. However, unless you have tested otherwise, I now believe (as I said earlier) that each mod variant is used in sequential order, NOT in random order.

If it were lloaded randomly, every time I loaded the Dealership scenario, I should see different numbers for the tanks (as I always use all variants) and I do not. What I see, is the first default mod variant every time (at least for the StuH's which is what I have been looking experimenting with). What I did was exchange the names of the default (plain vanilla) variant which ALWAYS was shown with a variant with numbers, and now the numbered variant is ALWAYS shown.

Hope others can test this out so we know definitively since... if I am correct, we should be able to create platoons with appropriate platoon numbers.

[Mord]

Yeah, I tested it way back, hence the link to that thread. But I reiterate, if what you are saying is correct then Aris' and Wyseman's mods should not blend textures they should exist side by side as separate texture sets...So, I just tested it with an M8HMC...I painted the numbers 1-5 on the turrets, numbered the bmps accordingly (blank to 5) and had them share one hull texture...they came up showing three 2's out of five bmps...no #1, or #4 at all on the turrets. I did it again but gave them each their own hull texture...again, there were duplicates...no straight 1-5 markings. I checked both sets within the editor and loaded them as a battle...same results.

I also retried the two Panther mods...

So, my conclusion as it was in the other thread, is that the game loads them randomly. It's unfortunate...but it is what it is. At least we have random something.

Mord.

[Erwin]

So why do I get exactly the same mod version (the default version with no mod number) when I load Dealership. If random, I should get different versions each time (well, on a probability basis).

[Mord]

Probably because the game loads the files with the blank space after the name, first. That's my guess..You are loading the dealership and it's only using one of each vehicle so that's not much of a test...but the point is, the theory is incorrect, I wish it wasn't, but it is. I've spent a couples hours testing this before this thread, and after, and the fact remains they load randomly. I don't know what else to do to prove that.

LOL. Look at it this way...I'd be happy to be proved wrong on this but so far no one has done that...My pic above, and in the other thread, is solid proof.

Mord.

[Erwin]

Not sure I understand the "loads the files with the blank space after the name, first." bit.

All 2 of the mod variants (with numbers on the skirts) have the blank space (for the StuH), so they should each be loaded randomly, no?

If you are correct re the other mods then something strange is going on with the StuH mod.

(And I did check/change the name by clicking on Properties as Aris instructed to make sure the space was there for all variants.)

[Mord]

As far as the space thing I was guessing maybe it takes the blank first...and then blanks with numbers second. I don't know.

Let me ask you this ('cause I have just spent an hour screwing around and can't get more than one of Aris' StuH to show up at a time...) have you seen all three versions on the screen at once? Have you tried viewing Stuh Early outside of the dealership, like selecting it a bunch of times in the editor and viewing them on the map by themselves? 'Cause another guess is you are getting the same one because that's all that is being loaded. Like I said above, that's all I could get to come up, was one version at a time and I had to rename each to stuh-early-skirt to get it to show. (And yep, I did the renaming in properties)

Basically, here's how to prove the sequential loading thing to you. Choose the StuH early, or ANY mod with lots of variants...pick that vehicle Xs as many variants as it has and view them in the editor and it'll show you beyond the shadow of a doubt that they are not gonna be loaded sequentially. It's that simple. Those Panther pics already prove that, just in the fact not one of them had the entire texture set showing. They were all mixed up. And that is what's happened with every single vehicle mod I've tested. There's no way that if someone numbered a turret 1 -25 and you chose twenty five versions of that vehicle that you wouldn't have duplicates. I've not only done this in the editor, I've saved it as a scenario and double checked loading it as a battle.

BUT I agree, there's definitely something wrong with how the StuH loads...it was a real PIA testing it and I never could get all three on the screen no matter how many StuHs I picked in the editor.

Mord.

[Erwin]

"I never could get all three on the screen no matter how many StuHs I picked in the editor."

Yeah, there may be something strange going on with the StuH's since (IIRC) we all have had multiple numbered variants show up in scenarios with other tanks with mod variants.

I wonder if it's got something to do with that darn space that seems to have been added by error by BF - compounded by the need in those cases (ie including the StuG early) to change the names using the Properties menu instead of the useal Rename method.

[Mord]

I think it does. Because all the rest of the mods you'd just number them...skirt, skirt 2, skirt 3 and ta da they show up. This one, no deal...all variants (at least for me) had to be loaded one at a time and renamed to skirt(space) for me to view them. I don't know how the hell Aris even figured that out 'cause if you guys hadn't of mentioned it I would've never thought to go into properties to add an invisible space to the Bmp.

Mord.

[benpark]

Anyone know offhand if this numbering convention works for buildings and terrain?

[Mord]

Works for buildings. I was also able to make it work for the shed Flavor Object...terrain as far as I know won't allow multiples...neither will trees. It's one of each.

Mord.