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Snols

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  1. Upvote
    Snols got a reaction from Kinophile in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    if he is Polish, I am Chinese. Bad pronunciation of the name of the town, bad sentence syntax, bad accent. I know Ukrainians who speak better after a year in Poland. 
  2. Thanks
    Snols reacted to Beleg85 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    Magic around absolving Galizien soldiers from responsibility for warcrimes lies in excluding from their list members of police detachments that were from the same wave of volunteers you mentioned before. These were recruits from OUN-M initially unfit for regular service, directed into auxiliary service outside from frontline divison but later (after its restructurization) amalgamated into- namely 4th and 5th Galician Volunteer SS Police Regiments. They participated in following massacres, together with Germans:
    -2.II.1944 Prehoryłe and Smoligów, unkown casualties (investigation still ongoing)
    -28.II.1944 Huta Pieniacka, 800+ civilians murdered/ some burned in houses
    -12.III.1944 Palikrowy, 368 civilians bound together and machine-gunned
    -16.IV.1944 Chodaczkowo Wielkie, 250-850 civilians murdered
    -24.VII.1944 Iwonicz- 72 prisoners from AK and Bch taken and shot/bayoneted.
    -Numerous pacification actions with numbers of killed below 100 (usually 30 people here, 40 there). There are also relations of singular Jew huntings but since they were formed vey late, they weren't "necessary" anymore on big scale.
    -Anti-partisan actions in Yugoslavia, of which less is known (if somebody has some info, feel free to share)
    This is what we judge them the for in Europe, not for the fact that they did fight for free Ukraine or not. Even if they weren't in proper SS, they did serve in the same machine, took orders and share its ideological conotations, uniforms and crucially- actions. Also it is not true they were vouched entirely afterwar; there was simply no possibility in post-45 world to entirely check what you did in turmoil of late WWII in these lands; simply burning documents and creating new identity was also not unheard of, albeit to my knowledge less in Galizen itself, as it was kept as coherent unit. Gen. Anders is particulary to blame here too, as he allowed 8 thousands members of former Galizien and UNA (not all of them SS ofc.) to escape to West without checks, giving them Polish passports collectivelly (even late D. Doncev managed to escape this way after pleading with Giedroyc). It's good they were spared the fate of Cossacks, but not that those guilty sliped away.
    Overall it's shame somebody in Canadian Parliament allowed such episode to happen (Russian propaganda has a feast on something real...finally), especially given how many Canadian soldiers died fighting SS in Normandy. I observe that lately, perhaps due to novelty that become complicated history of CEE lands suddenly appearing in western public discourse, we get way too lax and uncritical with our global approach to these ideologies, didn't we? We prefer not to see widespread far-right symbolic in AFU, have already difficult discussions about OUN-B past, and now we relativize heritage of even more obvious SS auxilia? Well, that goes fast.
    On other side you are right that history of some people joining SS in Central and Eastern Europe was very complex, especially for Balts, crushed between Soviet Scylla and Nazi Haribda. Also not all Ukrainians serving as German auxilia were indeed happy to initially serve along SS, like Pavlo Shandruk, who refused to take over Galizien and only very late in war took command in UNA :https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Pavlo_Shandruk
     
    I hear in some news that Gen. Tieplinski, chief of VDV, was effectively moved from command on Southern front and Gierasimov took over manual control. So fingers crossed it is true. 🤞On otehr side, similar situation was suppose to happen many times already.
  3. Like
    Snols got a reaction from Maciej Zwolinski in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  4. Like
    Snols got a reaction from CAZmaj in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  5. Like
    Snols got a reaction from croaker69 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  6. Upvote
    Snols got a reaction from fry30 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  7. Upvote
    Snols got a reaction from Elmar Bijlsma in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  8. Upvote
    Snols got a reaction from Kinophile in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  9. Upvote
    Snols got a reaction from chrisl in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  10. Upvote
    Snols got a reaction from Jr Buck Private in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  11. Like
    Snols got a reaction from Beleg85 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  12. Upvote
    Snols reacted to Beleg85 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    True, but bashing is not equal to other bashing, especially when dipped in clear historical prejudice and based on some made-up facts. Also, none of us here spoke negatively about average German citizen nor throw epithets that he is greedy and arrogant, like user who started this entire issue habitually do to Central Europeans in general. Hell, not even about DE government, and if you remember we criticized it pretty strongly together with our German members trying to figure out what was driving them during Leo debate. I think you were the part of it. 😉
    Not at all, this issue was adressed multiple times. Basically, such tables can tell you very little, as they describe only stiff netto numbers and not include differences in value of workforce, massive advantages in new markets, fluctuations of capital (material and intellectual), pruposful tax evasion by some countries, brain drainage etc. If somebody thinks that EU decision-makers suddelnly, collectively get out of their minds and did giant job of convincing their population to enlarge Union on pure whim - then I'd call him to read a little more on the process...
     
    Ok, let's go forward into more productive topics folks.
  13. Like
    Snols got a reaction from Fernando in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  14. Upvote
    Snols got a reaction from Sojourner in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  15. Upvote
    Snols got a reaction from dan/california in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    After WoW ("Wolski o Wojnie") FB and YT account. About polish support. Autotranslate from his FB post:
    "
    I see that the manipulation of Morawiecki's statement is beginning, and yet both fragments can be directly quoted:
    "We will certainly not risk Ukraine's security, which is why our hub in Rzeszów, in consultation with the Americans and NATO, continues to play the same role as before. And it will continue to do so."
    Nothing more needs to be added here. Supplies of materials for the defense of Ukraine have been, are and will continue.
    However, the second fragment manipulated in the message:
    "We are no longer transferring any weapons to Ukraine because we are now arming ourselves
    with the most modern weapons. If you don't want to defend yourself, you must have SOMETHING to defend yourself - this is our principle. And that is why we have made increased orders (...) we are focusing on quickly arming the Polish army."
    Of course, the statement is taken out of context and manipulated, but this is the truth: while other large NATO countries give equipment from arms depots after disbanded units, Poland is the only country with numerous land forces that donated equipment taken from the lines. Taken from Polish soldiers from line units. The Germans are giving museum equipment - Leopard 1A5s, which even the Ukrainians did not want to accept. We are giving Leopard 2s that we are taking from the line in 10BKPanc, we are giving a battalion of Wolverines that we are taking from 17WBZ, we have given and are still giving "Twarde" PT-91s taken from the lines in Braniewo and Giżycko.
    More than 270 T72M1/M1Rs donated to Ukraine were tanks freshly renovated from frontline units of the Polish Armed Forces.
    In 2019, Poland nominally had 861 tanks. We donated approximately 350 of these to Ukraine.
    40%! No one has given more than us in relation to the armed forces. Artillery?
    By spring 2022, the Polish Armed Forces received approximately 82 Krab AHS. 54.65% went to Ukraine! I ignore deliveries from this year. There are many such examples. No one gave as much as Poland and as quickly as Poland. We simply don't have anything to give anymore. Because we have already taken it from a Polish soldier to give it to a Ukrainian one. We temporarily weakened the Polish Armed Forces, but thanks to the fact that equipment from Poland saved Ukraine, our security per se increased - by stopping Russian imperialism on the battlefield and by bleeding the Russian Armed Forces. In return, we buy new equipment, but these purchases - due to the need - are not optimal - we buy them on different terms because we have no choice. And the equipment is just arriving. We will close the gap for approximately 30-40% of the Land Forces by at least 2027-2028.
    I really hope that the ill-considered statements of the Ukrainian side and the row over grain are the result of the position of the oligarchs and the quality of the political class in Ukraine, and not a cynical conclusion that we have already given everything we could give...
    Please forward the entry. It will not make up for the damage that an ill-considered and out-of-context tweet from the Prime Minister's statement (from the PRM account) will make up for, but maybe it will explain the situation a little better."
    Pleas consider this before writing bull**** about Poland support and selfishness.
     
  16. Thanks
    Snols reacted to Mindestens in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    I'm sure our old worthless tanks, armored personnel carriers, self-propelled guns and airframes weren't as much help to Ukrainians as your amazing helmets that you magnificently offered them when we were sending whatever junk we could.
     
  17. Upvote
    Snols reacted to Maciej Zwolinski in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    Morawiecki's words were misreported, as he did not declare a policy shift, but stated as a matter of fact that Poland at the moment is not supplying arms to Ukraine, because it needs to rearm itself. This is generally true because most of assets that Poland could spare have been donated already and the new deliveries have yet to be realised. The press being the press reported this in a way which both creates controversy and satsifies the biases of the writers and the readers.
    Still what Morawiecki refers to is important to understand the present crisis in Polish-Ukrainian relations. Poland was determined to help from the beginning and had a significant stock of post-soviet stuff which blended relatively well with Ukrainian assets. This caused Polish aid to be hugely important in the first period of the war. By now, we have largely shot our bolt and do not have so much to give anymore. Western European aid is on the rise, and countries like e.g. Germany can help Ukraine in EU accession negotiations which Poland cannot. Therefore, our value as an ally has decreased, apparently to the extent that Zelenski decided to prioritise the profit marigins on the sale of grain over UKR-POL relations. As long as we do not close the border or the Jasionka airport - which is not going to happen - Ukrainians will continue to benefit from most of Poland's value as an ally in this war.  Also, he may be counting on currying favour with the EU commission and Western European governements by creating a difficult situation for the PiS govt shortly before the elections.
    Conversely, most of Ukraine's value as an ally to Poland is realised via Ukraine defending itself and killing Russians. At this stage it seems they are capable of doing it without Polish aid deliveries, with Poland acting just as an airhead and land bridge to UKR, so I expect this will be the equilibrium on which the matters will settle: we will keep providing the passive support plus training, repair services and deliver under the existing contracts. Cheering for Ukraine's wins and enthusiasm for post-war close cooperation will decrease, money and asset collection among the general populace will fall away, etc. - but these have always been optional and had no impact on the general direction of the war.
    BTW this is exactly the course of events which was predicted by many Polish political analysts of the "realist" persuasion.
     
  18. Upvote
    Snols reacted to Beleg85 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    Yes, we did discuss this, and as I udnerstand your position I think you wrong here mate- it's not issue of Russian feelings (who cares what they think) nor Ukrainians' traditions of "mockery" (if indeed it is mockery, and not hidden far-right activism like in case of Azov movement), but public opinion of the West at stake here. Which directly translates how much money, eqiupment, training and crucially political support you get from us. Remind you- Ukraine is basically crowdfunding its war at this stage.
    If we tell you there is taboo on nationalism/nazism symbolic and ideas, it is for a reason- we are serious about it. Ukrainians are harming their own war effort and people that way. *
    * I personally know a person who get very involved in helping UA initially, collecting thousands of zloty for drones, bandages, tactical vests etc for your guys....until it visited frontlines herself and was perplexed by amount of nazi/nationalistic s...t going there. She gave up on helping almost entirely, except limited humanitarian one. This equipment could save lives of your folks at frontlines, but no- jokes are more important... Btw. send regards to 28th Brigade and Odessa ultras.
  19. Upvote
    Snols reacted to panzermartin in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    I've watched quite a few of those close action videos posted from both sides and I'm coming to the conclusion that modern soldiers have become even less densesitized firing at the enemy than what was described in the book "on killing". Some of you might have read about it. There was a theory that in WW2 most soldiers didn't fire their guns at all or didn't shoot to kill but mostly injure the enemy. That changed the coming decades, particularly from wiki :
     
     
    "As a result of Marshall's work, modern military training was modified to attempt to override this instinct, by:
    using man-shaped targets instead of bullseye targets in marksmanship practice practicing and drilling how soldiers would actually fight dispersing responsibility for the killing throughout the group displacing responsibility for the killing onto an authority figure, i.e., the commanding officer and the military hierarchy (see the Milgram experiment) By the time of the United States involvement in the Vietnam War, says Grossman, 90 % of U.S. soldiers would fire their weapons at other people.
    He also says the act of killing is psychologically traumatic for the killer, even more so than constant danger or witnessing the death of others.
    Grossman further argues that violence in television, movies and video games contributes to real-life violence by a similar process of training and desensitization."
    I know the brutality and hate of this conflict may have surpassed any training needed to reach those levels and not sure if those videos represent the general rule but there is something in this war that I haven't seen before. From that video with the russian drone dropping a grenade to an injured Ukranian pleading for his life to the close Call of duty action trench clearing videos I find it disturbing to see perfect killing machines, or find that people from both sides enjoy the video clips with techno and dance music.
    I mean, how normal is that? 
     
     
     
  20. Upvote
    Snols reacted to Beleg85 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    Not true, they had plenty of choice. You think you were the first country in the world to fight for its existence? There were (and are) many nations struggling/fighting for its  independence that did not commit genocide and ethnic cleansing on massive scale- and OUN/UPA complex did. Not only on Poles, but also Jews, Armenians, Hungarians and other Ukrainians too (there were some who payed with their blood for saving their neighbours from UPA henchmen; much more numerous did cooperate, ofc.). What for example did to "brave Ukrainians patriots" some Armenian girls from Kuty village that were collectivelly raped? Is nailing local priest to a table and let him die a part of some "long but accepted struggle for freedom"? BS all along, in the darwinistic spirit of "new nationalism" by Viatrovych and similar folks. Actually, very similar to what Russian nats say minus imperialism.
     
    Which politician specifically say "Polish Lviv"? There was one such political figure maybe 30 years ago (surprise, surprise- nationalist). There is literally nobody normal talking about any border revisionism. I am not sure about Hungary though. Btw. did Azov movement already prepared their crusade to "liberate" Ukrainian lands up to Caucasus like they announced in their famous "burning Viking longship" happening? Again, this is just one example of rosy vision of nationalism so many inteligent Ukrainians unfortunatelly betray.*
    While I get your opinion and are sympathetic a lot to it (myself mentioned about this relentless Cossack spirit here several times), I simply refuse to "go by" by barbarisms commited by entire Banderite complex. Why? Because ultimately, nationalism is poisonous ideology; it's rediscovered tribalism, modifed to suit modern tastes and means. Best is to view it in wider, European complex- it was not so dissimilar to other movements, and actually was insipred heavily by them. Arrowcrossers, Iron Guard, ONR, you name it- these guys were very, very similar in their views. Nothing particulary exceptional about Ukrainian version.
    What is memic about a guys who murdered in most horrific, cruel way thousands of innocents? Sorry, it's bull**** based on selected, nationalistic vision of history. Or worse- lack of knowledge. Unlike victims of Hlodomor, victims of UPA probably does not have a single sincere museum in entire bloody country, beside post-soviet localized anti-UPA sentiments, of course. One could also hardly find a decent (sources-based), widely read book in your language from perspective of victims, without this terrible blaming-dance that so many authors of "heroic-UPA" literature laying in Lviv bookshops betray.
    *Btw. Ukrainian People Republic did not fall because some naive pacifism, but that is material for long essay and an offtopic.
  21. Upvote
    Snols reacted to Beleg85 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    Yes, they were, and some still cannot force themselves to reciprocate it- for example TV anchors here simply couldn't spell second part "glory to the heroes" for first months when interviewing their Ukrainian guests, who were probably blisfully unaware of the slogan's origin and what it means for Poles. Many here still can't, especially that ethnonationalistic cancer is unfortunatelly real, alive and growing among population of Western Ukraine. A lot of work need to be done on Ukrainian historical identity, and I am not sure if our current strategy of "leave it for later, now they suffer because of war and have other things than discussion about a past" is actually right one, given that this war is formative period for Ukraine state and society.
    Still, some symbols change their meaning in time. People do not associate "heroiom slava" slogan with genocidal nationalisms anymore (usually narration of slogan as associated with Sicz's Rifles comes in handy), and they can even tolerate these "Blood and Soil" black-red flags if going to Ukraine with help. However, you can agree that supplying people at your own expense who venerate absolutelly genocidal morons who barely 80 years earlier would cut their throats for just being Poles (or Jews, Hungarians or any other) resonates with very strange vibes among people doing charity work?
    Yup, some of historians here associate it with "Sicz Rifles" (not exactly correctly, but that is minor issue), just as famous Chervona Kalyna, which Russian trolls here also tried to sell as "UPA song", fortunatelly ineffectively.
    Ok Haiduk it is not against you or other folks here, just a food for thought about future of your country and national identity. I am fully aware of many wrongdoings on Polish side in the past as well, I really attended several dozens conferences on these topics in my 12-year long historical career and heard zilion of arguments from both Polish and Ukrainian historians of the topic (even stopped two who wanted to smash each other faces in my student's years...), so believe me- I get basic facts around Ukrainian nationalism and there are probably not many things you can surprise me on it.
    The question is if collectivelly Ukrainians really want this kind of hatred to be cherished for another generations- because that will be effect of tolerating OUN/UPA heritage in your public spaces. There will be some day when society will need to grasp bull by the horns and stand in truth about genocidal past of this organization (and large part of population in Western Ukraine, who were forced or otherwise encouraged by UPA to participate in it), without whitewashing, victim-blaming and doing endless circles around basic obvious facts (mirroring what Russians do with their own narrations), which is sadly situation now among many Ukrainian historians, with several exceptions (perhaps ironically- mostly from Eastern Ukraine, where they can approach topic without bias). And facts are indeed brutal- probably 50-80 k innocent people were ruthlessly murdered in one of worst cases of targeted genocide, in already harsh times of WWII. Rwanda style, with machette, axe and scythe- not some impersonal "industry of death" like projected by Germans for Jews. It was personal, it was long-planned, targeted and executed by the same people who are now fast becoming symbols of Ukrainian statehood. I really don't care what UPA become in Ukrainian national mythology after these events, because it will always inherently be bases on false premises. There is no place among civilized people for narrations supporting such guys.
    I would even say in the future your attitude to OUN/UPA will be a major test if you really want to collectivelly be part of Western hemisphere or prefer to stay inside never-ending cycle of lies like Russians. We did our job on many unpleasant and shameful episodes from our collective past, still not enough of it, but I can wholeheartadly say it is always beneficial for society in long run. Germans serve great example here.
  22. Upvote
    Snols reacted to Beleg85 in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    Yup, except there is way too much of this stuff to be just a trolling. Also Ukrainians, especially in their situation, should acknowledge the fact that such nazi jokes may not be considered jokes by anyone around, especially Germans. A lot of unpleasant things can be said about behaviour of our western neighbours, but they did really good job on getiing to the root of the problem with their own past, compared to other actors, and are deadly serious about the subject. There was a reason why Myelnik became informal persona non grata in Berlin.
    With all due respect Haiduk, I completelly disagree. Not only I have no reason not to criticize others' past (or my own, so to speak), but as historian I would say it is my job, if based on right methodology and facts. Chmielnicki lived in XVII cent., so it is long forgotten past barely anybody relate to- I doubt there is anyone who lost relatives in his massacres...
    While people who were personally touched by UPA made genocide  at Wołyń/East Małopolska are still living, or their direct children. Just several days ago passed away gen. Mirosław Hermaszewski, only guy from here ever flying space, who as 2-year boy barely managed  to survive Wołyń genocide. There are more such people. So sorry, it has nothing to do with Chmielnicki.
    I am not fan of Piłsudski personally (he supressed nascent Polish democracy and blocked reforms of the military in 30's), but whatever you can blame on pre-WWII Polish state - and there is a lot, it was by no means perfect place to live for many people-it all pales in comparision to what ethnonationalistic butchers from OUN/UPA complex did by a absolutelly wide margin, and is gross misunderstanding of Ukrainian past. And Polish one too. Or basically any kind regional history, in which entire Ukrainian nationalistic movement stands out as particulary, almost inhumanly brutal one. Perhaps only Jasenovec camp on Balkans in WWII can be compared to UPA's "work" in sheer scale of cruel barbarity.
    https://nawolyniu.pl/english.htm
    Crucial problem is that young Ukrainians do not learn about this at schools and universities, and if so, at most somewhere in the footnotes. So large swaths of population on Westen Ukraine still think that OUN/UPA were some kind of edgy proto-patriots that  fought the Soviets, not genocidal ethnonationalistic movement on the level of Croatian Ustashe or Hungarian Arrowcrossers. Ofc. raging antisemitism and collaboration with Nazi Germany goes without saying (Melnyk faction specifically, UPA much less; however Shuhevycz himself was member of Nachtigal batalion).
    The problem is, it is also Polish history, as well as Jewish, Hungarian, German and Russian. Should Croatians and Bosniaks tolerate their neighbours freely venerating Milosevic, Mladić or Karadzić, because "it is not their history"? Or Israelis be silent about rising neo-nazi movements in Europe? And Jugoslavian wars murderers were almost gentle teddybears compared to folks like Bandera, Schuchevycz or Klaczkivsky, both in scale and "qulity" of their work. Quote you several sources from victims of Wołyń massacres or share personal stories about "brave Ukrainian patriots" specifically targeting minors and children by thousands? Almost all their "honest job" (direct quote) was made by axe, scythe or falx, to spare the ammo.
    If I would be young Ukrainian cautious of my own past, I would not like to touch OUN/UPA symbolic even with a stick. Level of self-induced ignorance to one's own genocidal past among some Ukrainians (by no means all, of course)  is sickening, frankly speaking- there is really a lot of work to be done in order to OUN/UPA become taboo as similar movements in other civilized countries are.
    Because from all I hear from your leaders, you are aspiring to become part of civilized, democratic Western world, right? If so, then a lot of unpleasant truths about own history awaits you folks.
    OK, sorry for offtopic.
  23. Like
    Snols reacted to Kinophile in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    Read the Hyperion series, my friend, then tell me if there's any character in 3BP as remotely intriguing, humanist or layered as Col. Kassad.
  24. Upvote
    Snols reacted to The_Capt in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    Article 37 does prohibit perfidy or the unlawful use of the protections of the LOAC; however, it does not give license for further violations or mean the rest of LOAC does not apply.  https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/ART/470-750046?OpenDocument
    The Russian soldier(s) who are proven to have participated in an act of perfidy are prosecutable under the LOAC.  If the whole unit and its chain of command were involved then they too can be prosecuted.
    However none of this gives licence to legally gun down every man in the RA squad, especially unarmed men lying face down on the ground.  For that, they would need to prove that the entire squad was about to get up and re-engage in combat - so intent and capability, which allowed for lawful engagement or self-defence.
    As to the legal defence of “well they are doing it!”  Welcome to the western world. Having spent time in combat with people who were absolutely medieval I can sympathize but this is the deal - we follow the rules even when the other team is not. Why? Western Rules Based Order…key word is “rules”, and we all have to follow them or risk breaking the deal.
    You want to support the Russians just keep promoting a reciprocal Russian-way of war for the Ukrainians.  You want to beat the Russians in the strategic narrative?  Keep to the high ground and remain recognizable to your western supporters.  Fair?  Nope.  Reality? Yup.
  25. Upvote
    Snols reacted to Maciej Zwolinski in How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?   
    There is another very good sci-fi book which projects drone warfare even further into the future, "The Invincible" by Stanisław Lem. I am not sure how well known it is outside of Poland, but it is very good. It is not military sci-fi, but unmanned warfare is a part of the plot, and it is scary as hell  (wont' say more not to spoil it).  Notably it was written in 1964.
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