Narses

1) I have downloaded the AutoUpdater but it doesn't self-extract (I think because my game still shows 1.2.2). I've tried to type in several paths to extract it but I'm obviously not getting it. Can anyone tell me what the path should be. I'm using Partition_1 (C:)\Program Files (x86)\Battlefront\1 c Company\Theatre of War 2 Kursk 1943 but I get error msgs that are not understandable to me. 2) The campaign game plays fine. But when I tried the Mission Generator nothing happens when I click on "Start." I completed all the blocks in the generator from name, mission, maps, date, type combat (attack) and units (tk bns),etc.. When I select "Start" nothing happens. This feature worked in my Demo. Btw, I could not load the game disk until I deleted the Demo version. Once I did that the game loaded.

The Ferdinand/Elefants were in the northern sector under 9th Army ( 14 Inf Divs/6 Pz/1 PzGrd/7 Stug and the 656th Tk Destroyer Rgt ( 2 Bns the 653 and 654 with the 83 Ferdinands/Elefants, 42 Brummbaers and about 50 other odd panzers). Also a Tiger Abt. About 920 tanks & assault guns here. In the south was the main striking force of Hoth's 4th Pz Army & Army Det Kempf with 7 Inf Divs, 5 Pz Divs, 4 Pz Grd Divs [the 3 SS and the "GD"] and 3 Tiger Abt. About 1500 tanks & assault guns here. I've left off many other units like arty, light assault guns or destroyers, radio controlled "Goliaths", jaeger bns, etc. This game concerns "GD" which also controlled operationally the new Panthers. "GD" was in XXXXVIII Pz Korps with 3rd and 11th Pz Divs. "GD" had its own Tigers (15) as well. The 3 SS divisions were in their own II SS Pz Corps nearby. "GD" is probably the best German unit to pick for this game as it had all the types of battle panzers from III, IV, V, and VI.

Seems you have good responses on the German tungsten round but this is from "Guns vs Armor" at gva.freeweb.hu/index.html This is a great source for all details on armor, guns, types of armor, types of ammunition, etc. "Germany was cut off from tungsten sources in 1943 and production ceased shortly after. The remaining ammunition was allegedly put into storage for industrial use. On the other hand, some sources claim that 5cm Pzgr.40 remained in production throughout the war because the Pak38 was utterly useless without it. Others claim the Panthers and Tigers would occasionally carry one or two of these rounds in 1944 and 1945 in order to deal with those special targets like the Soviet IS-2." I would be very surprised if Tigers or Panthers were issued the APCR rd against Western Allies as there was no need for it. They could easily penetrate the Shermans and Cromwells with APCBC. I also note that in Jentz's "Panzertruppen" Vol 2 he quotes German battlefield records from Russia indicating HEAT was not at all liked by the pz crews and it often took 5 or 6 rds to destroy and enemy tank. The crfews also complained its slow velocity also made it difficult to use on moving targets. Of course for some pzs like the PzIII N with a short 7.5cmL24 HEAT was about all the gunner had.

You might take a look at Kursk: A Statistical Analysis by Zetterling and Frankson. This is a relatively short 250 pg book with everyhing you would want to know. Especially outstanding on order oif battle. "GD" division was part of XXXXVIII Pz Corps along with 3rd and 11th Pz Divs and most of 167th Inf Div. Added to this corps also was 911th Assault Gun Bn with 31 Stugs. Also attached to "GD" was 39th Pz Rgt with the 2 Abteilungen (51 & 52) with 96 Panthers each (Rgt HQ had 8). During their initial assauly the 332 Inf Div and a Nebelwerfer rgt were assigned. The corps and "GD" 0n the first day advanced to the northeast and took Novo Cherkasskoye and Olkhovka and reached the outskirts of Dubrova and Lukhanino. The main enemy forces encountered during the day was 3rd MC (52,67,90 GRD). All total there were 595 tanks and assault guns in this corps. "GD" had 4 Pz II, 28 Pz III, 14 Flamm Pz, 68 Pz IV, 15 Pz IV, 37 Stug, 12 Wespe and 6 Humme.

The Ferdinand was a total wate of time although I know Porsche already had 90 built for the Tiger project at his own expense. Might've been better to have converted them to pz retrieving vehicles for the Tiger. You may be correct but I'm not totally convinced about an earlier date for Zitadelle. It wasn't only the Panther but the need to build up other assets for the offensive. I'm talking infantry, pzs, enggineers, artillery, air assets and getting them all in place. THe Germans were exhausted from the winter battles of 42/43 and VManstein's brilliant Kharkov offensive and certainly needed rest and replenishment. But it is a tempting theory especially as the Germans watched all those massive defensive positions being built and Model on 4 May at a Zitadelle conference actually showed aerial photos of the extensive ring of fortifications to Hitler, Zeitzler, von Manstein and Guderian. Model said he thought the time was past for an attack. Another great problem was the Soviets could always regenerate forces and the Germans could not. Guderian (then in 43 as IG of Pz forces supposedly said to AH: Why do you want to attack in the East this year at all? AH replied: You're right, everytime I think about it my stomach turns over). My thought is Guderian was right that the best solution was to let the Soviets attack into a German mobile defense posture and strike back in a mobile battle where Germany might still have had an advantage. Frankly Germany was trying to do too much with too little from 41 on. The Russians in 41 had a manpower base of 14 million behind their 5 million man 1941 force. The Germans invaded with only a handful of reserve divisions and an acknowledged ability to replace only several hundred thousand casualties thru Seot.Oct as I recall.

Oh, that's great info. Thanks !!

It seems you cannot change "Controls" ( under "Settings") in the Demo. At least nothing happens when I try and change any of the keyboard items under "Controls." Other items under "Settings" can be changed. I might have to wait for the game version. If F12 doesn't work in the game I'll try your suggestion. Thanks.

I certainly agree. This is not COD and individual control and names are simply adding, hee, hee. to the "fog of war". Its worse than tedious - it makes no sense. But still I order and play.

Hmm, I now see "Screenshots" as F12 under "Settings." Also I see in the game file a folder for screenshots. I've tried using F12 numerouis times (mostly from Mission Generator) but no screenshots appear in the screenshot folder. What gives?

I'm getting better at the Demo and it seems to play well and I'm not having much trouble. I agree with the Armchair General review. Its good and I've turned off the "pause" which did bother me. Looking forward to the final game.

Thanks for that.

Sorry, that was not clear. I mean an ability within "Kursk 43" to take a picture (print screen ) of any particular scene in a game and then be able to email it to another. I just ordered the game and also checked the manual but didn't see that listed. I thought I might take some screen shots and send to people I might get interested in "Kursk3." Thanks.

Is there an In Game Camera in the Demo? How do I access it. Thanks

Once again I was only referring to the Demo's Mission Generator. And Sneaksie says the other panzers will be in the final product's Mission Generator. For me a game without an editor and a mission generator is an unfinished product. Kind of like Pz Elite when it was released in late 1999. Fortunately a couple different groups took on the fix for the game (I participated in the OstPak mod from about 1999 to 2004/5 and still play the game which has all new skins, extra models and better graphics from what was oriinally released. Unfortunately some of the 2D aspects could not be changed like the infantry and vehicle wheels). I assume those pzs missing from the Mission Gen are in the Demo ingame scenarios although I was concentrating on the Mission Generator and will relook at the game scenarios.

AH, ok what I suspected. So the Demo is limited and those other vehicles will be in the final product's Mission Generator. I'm a customer and will order. Sorry my topic on "where are the panzer IV, etc" got of course.

Well as know the Panthers were with the GD so seems they should be there in the Mission Generator. Of course they must be in the scenarios. If those Stugs, PzIV, V and VI are not in the Mission Generator than I may skip a purchase or go back to playing the best tank game ever - Pz Elite with its upgraded graphics. It seems quite strange that the Administrator here can't answer this question. The Russians were certainly profligate in the way they feed their men into the German meat grinder but it was probably necessary especially in 1941 and they managed at Smolensk to really stop Barbarossa. Afterall they were the country invade as despicable as the regime there was. In truth there was little to choose between the Nazi and the Soviet. I have a feeling most Norwegians would not agree with you.

I was wrong the Marders are there but still no Pz IV or Stugs or Tigers or Panthers. I tried a date in the middle of Kursk and still only Pz II and III also the Marder which I missed. Why buy this unless those vehicles are in the game ? So you'll not pick any Pz II's nor do I but if you play their missions you'll get them. And fine but if you only get Pz III's you still have a problem trying to get a good game especially if you want an armor fight. I keep asking this question because I suppose its possible the Demo ONLY doesn't have these vehicles so how about an answer from 1C or battlefront TOW. I won't comment on ethics or code of honor as it plays no part in the game and the Germans were not exactly the good guys as they stripped villages of food and livestock and let POW's die from lack of care (but both sides did as they pleased).

Hmm, I didn't do anything special on my Vista and the Mission Generator played OK. My only issue was I can't seem to get any panzers but the useless Pz II (only 58 at Kursk and not used as combat tanks) and the Pz III. I don't mind the Pz III but if its a Mission Generator why can't I select a Pz IV, Stug or even a V or VI. How about Marders? Oops I was wrong I do see Marders in Mission Generator.

Yeh, as I said there were lots of III's at Kursk. Zetterling says 608 and 702 IV's and only 58 light tanks. There were 145 Tigers and 239 Marders and 141 Stugs. And of course the Panthers of which bwtween about 135 and 166 were operational on 6 July. This all from Zetterling & Frankson's Kursk 1943: A Statistical Analysis. Its also imortant to note that on the Soviet side the largest numbers of tanks were T34 and T70 light tanks. In 5th Gds for example were 409 T34 and 188 T70 light tanks as well as 48 SU 76 and 31 Churchills. There were actually relatively few KV1s at Kursk, only about 200. 100 in Central Front and 105 in Voronezh Front. Numbers don't tell the whole story either as the German 75 & ammo were superior to the 76 weapon in the T34 and Kv1. Not only that but the T34 still had that terrible 2 man turret with the cdr as gunner. All Ger pzs (not the II) had 3 man crews which could spot and deliver aimed fire much more rapidlt that the Soviet T34. My point was not about numbers. It was that in the Demo's Mission Generator I could only seem to select Pz II (only 58 present at Kursk and used almost exclusively as hq staff vehicles) and Pz III's. So my query was where are the Stugs, Marders, IV, V and VI's - are they in the Mission Gen or what. I glad you agreed on the Ger uniforms - terrible. Although the Soviets in the Demo game I played looked interesting.

I'm only just sampling the Demo and it certainly looks nice graphically. A couple comments that may be wrong as they are just based on what I see in the Demo: - German inf uniforms look very much like 1940-41 styles not so much like 43. There were changes and while the older styles persisted there should be more 43 style uniforms with the ankle wraps and laced boots. The "dice shaker" boots were disappearing. The uniform cut and style was changing especially for enlisted uniforms to open collars and the reed-green type (Schilfgruener Anzug and the Dienstanzug Modelle 1943). Of course also for the winter a new uniform was introduced for 42-44 - the padded and reversable Wintertarnanzug. Even the helmet changed but the look was not too different. - I also tried the Mission Generator and could only seem to get Pz II and PzIII's. I thought this a bit odd and also I could only select between "motorized" and "infantry" - is motorized also panzer ? I'm sure the Pz IV, V and VI are in the Missikon Generator - correct? I certainly realize lots of IIIs were around in 43 but the mainstay was the IV. I played one scenario where T34 and Kv1s (very nice indeed) were on my Sov side and the poor Krauts had only Pz IIs and IIs ! Also all the pz turret markings were Abteilungen markings ( e.g., I08, etc). I trust we have some straight forward zug numbering like 323, etc.

Exactly my problem with TOW in all versions. I hate the naming of each soldier - just too much detail unless your a squad leader. And the names are sometimes hilariously funny.

Needed aircraft: Must have in the Med: Savoia-Marchetti SM79 "Sparrow Hawk" torpedo bomber. Fiat G50 "Arrow" fighter or Macchi MC200 "Lightning."

Tried the video and screenshots. Nice. Glad to see the Med and the Black Sea. Interesting.

Ah yes, "Task Force 42." Absolutely the best. It took on those great naval battles around Guadalcanal where both sides had a certain equality. Wonderful !!!! I also very much like the Type IX U-boat addon tp SH4. Very nice indeed. I even still play the old SSG "Carriers at War" and the old " Fighting Steel." FS leaves lots to be desired as it is so old but it included the Ger Navy as well and the editor was very nice. CW let you play all those great carrier battles in the Pacific and is quite realistic. Where else can you find a Pacific WW2 carrier game (not a flight sim)? I would certainly like to see: cartrier battles and surface battles during 42 done to 2009 graphics standards. I'll get PT since it will have the S-boote as well but it better have an editor that permits the plyr to quickly develop his/her own scenarios !! A quick battle generator would be OK also.

Many thanks, so those are labels (Abandoned, Damaged, etc) not Plyr Aids. Yes, Shift G !