Cid250

Vista Sucks for video games just now... get your money back and install XP, you will be much happier, since you'll be able also to install DirectX10 on Win XP if you wish it for any future game. But... OpenGL is far superior in features just now over DirectX10 (again). CMBB was built over old OpenGL features, and Vista drivers still suck with OpenGL in some video cards. Your computer hardware will perform much better on Win XP on any game, since Vista is a waste of resources (like a trash can, for money invested in hardware power). Lots of games do not even run, and the same can be said of lots of cool and interesting software applications. [ November 13, 2007, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Cid250 ]

May be because the CMSF forums are falling into death, and they are becoming closer to the activity displayed here in the CMC forums. I hope that the crew of CMC, keeps his development with the CMx1 engine, because any WWII game based in the CMx2 engine will fall short in quality. It's very clear that CMBB and CMAK will be the biggest quality standard for the next 10 years. It's now clear that CMC will suck if they expect to release something conected with the CMx2 engine, because the number of weapons that this small team can model for any WWII expansion over the CMx2 engine, will be too small for consider CMC as even possible. CMC needs lots of weapon class to represent true WWII battles at bigger level... with the few weapons that can be modeled in the more graphical complex CMx2 engine at 1:1, CMC will lack of deep and any interest.

I agree 100% with Panzer76... CMx1 engine allows for more deep gameplay. They will never be able to model the bunch of weapons already available in CMBB and CMAK. Because the better graphics of CMx2 engine place a huge limit for the developers. So, CMx1 games are far superior in almost all the important features of a wargame. Yes... CMAK and CMBB manuals, were done by people thinking purely in a wargame... sometimes they sound like the Wargamer's Bible. Too bad that even the manual of CM:SF drops his quality in this sense.

Graphics is the last thing for a game like this... So, to have good graphics it's like having nothing at all. For me and for many others, CMx1 engine is far better than CMx2 actually is from the pure gameplay point of view. I doubt that any new WWII game development over the CMx2 engine, brings anything interesting to pay for it. Battles will be smaller, plenty of LOS bugs, and the high detail needed for the models, will make the weapon diversity very narrow (due to the increased cost and time to add new weapon's models to the game)... so CMBB and CMAK will ever be better games than anything built over the CMx2 engine. Few weapons diversity in the huge background of WWII, and buggy battles, are a much worse option than the bad graphics of CMx1. I have no worry at all. Because the WWII games based on CMx1 was the most complete and satisfactory ever built. The features of the CMx2 engine will not add anything of interest, since I'm not interested in a narrower version of WWII weaponset, smaller size engagements, less tactical consistency, etc. Good graphics is not a good trade for all the core features of a good wargame.

I play CMBB and CMAK exclusively now. CMSF has no fun at all for me.

Just how many copies of CMSF does a loyal customer buy? </font>

It's a valid rule for any kind of company, of any size... any business starts just because you fill the needs of some customers. That's why is very important to take a look to the real needs of the customers. It's a well known universal rule of the economy. [...] Let me explain. Most marketers have been trained to develop and launch products for mass markets. However, the very notion of a mass market is somewhat flawed as even in mass markets not all consumers are equal, and as most brand managers tend to quickly forget not all of their brand customers are equal. Direct marketers understood the 80/20 rule -- which states that 20 percent of customers make up 80 percent of their brand profit - [...] From: http://www.imediaconnection.com/content/9973.asp CM:SF had much bigger marketing effort than any CMx1 game, but CMx1 got his customers anyway, together with great community feedbacks, external reviews, and mouth to mouth evaluations. So, due to the marketing investment done with CM:SF, plus the prestige of their former products, CM:SF should grow much more, if it isn't... Just join the points with a pen, the voices of those customers doesn't speak just because they are random dices choosing a random opinion. Bugs aren't the main problem for the future of this game, believe it or not. Be clever and read between lines. [ October 08, 2007, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Cid250 ]

In a very positive article on Google, Garret Rogers opines that one of Google's keys to success is this: Give people what they want, not what you think they want. Garret is right of course - product designers need to remove their own fragile egos from product design. But that is only half of the story... Link: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Google/index.php?p=184

Hertston, the problem with that is the low quality of the CMx2 engine as wargame. CMx1 games, like CMBB and CMAK are far superior as pure wargames. The gameplay of CMSF was designed over the desk with the real time as core, and Battlefront will never had the manpower nor the money to build an extensive game like CMBB with the cost of eyecandy that the new engine provides. CMBB and CMAK will keep as the best wargames of WWII tactical warfare, in the next 10 years. Any product of Battlefront will perform less as wargames than those veteran games. So CMC should keep the old engine in mind, since they are far better wargames. [ October 03, 2007, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Cid250 ]

There are also good news. Fan boys can buy it "new" as low as 8€ http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/3354621/Combat-Mission-Shock-Force/Product.html?cur=258

Ummm... didn't notice that... but you are right. It's strange, because the CMBB demo was there for many years (5078 downloads), and this is one of the main pages for software demos. May be few people vote, but the people that does it, usually say the true. Anyway... reading several European forums, the average opinions are very close to the points exposed here. Feel free to find other sources where the players vote for any game, and post them here. User feedback it's always good, the more the better.

This is some more feedback found on a website of software evaluation. This speaks a bit of the importance of graphics, and RealTime gameplay over WeGO, for the average European customer. Users give 1.3 to CMSF, and 8.1 to CMBB. May be it's too early for the CMSF evaluation, but i have my doubts about reaching as hight as CMBB in his life time. http://www.softonic.com/s/combat-mission

I can't find any answer to those questions. All that I've found is related with the bugs. I can understand that bugs are now the first and only task, to be done. It's the logical path to follow. When this game become 100% bug free, will be the time to take a look about the fact that the worst user evaluations in the game reviews (if you read them closely) aren't related with bugs exactly. People knows that bugs will be fixed eventually, sooner or later... that isn't the problem that worries to many of those unsatisfied customers.

This is the best post of the thread, in my opinion. I wonder if those important questions will get an answer.

I'm not radical at all... i only have a strong opinion, and a strong will, that's all I doesn't attack to Battlefront... they did master pieces with few resources. If i attack something here... is the opinion of Battlefront about keeping out the good things that we already know that works great!. To attack opinions is much different than to attack persons or enterprises, is more clear now?. If something works in the past, you at least must take a look, to the current status of WeGO, and post any info about your long term plan. It doesn't matter if they can't address it until 2 years. I can understand the lack of resources... But closed minds worries me. The most modern isn't always the better. I love modern things when they improve something... but that's not the case, since WeGO is much worse than earlier... can be said that it's even non existent.

More than 2 minutes, is perfect!... that's just what i expect... even 15 minutes of dedicated CPU, it's fine for a wargamer. In a wargame some turns takes even hours. The more time, the best for the TacAI. And... it wasn't a whine exactly... when i was preordering my copy of CMSF, the list of features included WeGO. Any customer that pays in advance, goes to buy a car and returns with a bike... has his rights to complain as customer. WeGO is now real time paused at intervals, not true WeGO. And this is very clear if you play the game. We don't have TCP/Ip, and the status of TacAI is a pain in the ass for any serious WeGO player... may be in real time you can solve the bad TacAI with a click fest... but in WeGO you just doesn't have a serious game. An that's is very important in Player vs Player, WeGO. The initial engine is designed with the focus of being able to do all the AI maths on real time, and this... considering the increasing detail on ballistics, speaks for it self. Those are bad news for the WeGO players... because we can sacrifice CPU time in any turn when we play the game as a "wargame"... is not problem for me if a single turn takes 15 minutes to be calculated in the CPU. I prefer the quality AI over speed. Battlefront is a small company, and even big companies with lots of resources have serious problems to provide good AI algorithms within the limits of "real-time". I doesn't complain about this game being focused on real time, since in the box they said that this game has both: real-time and WeGO gameplay. The real time players can enjoy his dumb TacAI, if they want. But in a product sold with WeGo listed as feature, is a bad move to remove the fantastic WeGo implementation of the past by a place-holder. The TacAI in the past had enough quality for serious Player vs Player games. We have now the same bad AI than you get when a complex game goes for real time constraints. And doing so, we have a bad quality wargame. They limited the size of 8x8 grid is not chosen for pleasure... but for computational constraints, when the ideal is 1x1, but it's not possible. So i can't understand why they doesn't even consider the opinion of some customers about the fact that many players will love to have better TacAI over WeGo without the heavy constraints of time limits. We want to play the game as WeGO with the benefits of TacAI not being calculated on real time. It's needed exclusive CPU usage 10 minutes long? What's the problem, we chosen to play WeGo, and get the benefits of almost unlimited amount of time for the TacAI. We doesn't want a WeGO fake, (placeholder), based on real time with auto-pause. Good TacAI is everything for satisfactory WeGO player versus player. Pathfinding, can be solved with some work in several patches, that's not the problem on long term. But the real-time constraint, is a problem that still they doesn't want to face... to ignore an important proportion of customers, is not a good policy. Specially when your popularity has the roots on hundred of wargamers that loved to play with a quality WeGO implementation. This engine need to break his constraints... to provide satisfactory gameplay for both: real-timers and WeGOers. [ September 15, 2007, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Cid250 ]

Just what I've predicted... I never fault the respect to your opinion... I've just placed my opinion as a complement for the readers. And you took it as an attack... But you seem to have problems with people that says that CMSF is a very bad wargame right now, and speak about the lack of true WeGo... when both things are true. You're the Taliban here, man, since "true" hurts you (not me). You are the man that doesn't want to hear any word opposite to your opinion... to keep the forums clean of customer opinions. A healthy company must hear any customer, it's not your role to choose what can be said or what not... specially when all that I've said is plain true.

Take a look into the reviews... since the community that keeps posting in this forum will give you a biased opinion mainly. I'm a bit angry with some people in this community because they are now almost Taliban in practice... if you post your real opinion about the game, you will get insulted by many, just like the Taliban does. The logic behind it, is... if you post bad realities about the game, they think that you are insulting them as person, (and you doesn't have any right to give your own opinion). That is very similar than if you post historical realities about Muhammad, you get stoned. One of the main external reviews: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/combatmissionshockforce/review.html?sid=6176489 But to be fair, check this entire list of reviews: http://www.google.es/search?q=Reviews+Combat+mission+shock+force Just wait... the first attacks for posting my opinion, i will get some aggressive reply for sure. The ideological cleaning is on the way. Is not fault of Battlefront... they will keep the good work with the best intentions. I'm only angry with the radical fan boys, and its lack of respect to the different opinions. [ September 15, 2007, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: Cid250 ]

Multiplayer without IA, will be good for me.

Anybody posting about WEGO realities in the CMSF forum, is automatically insulted. Or at least disqualified, in the fashion that yourself can see (just 6 post above) from Melnibone. Yes, he knows, he has the knowledge, but he only doesn't want to explain us why he think that i doesn't have any idea... Mainly, because he can't?. Those forums, are almost in a Taliban status. Some guys on the player base, take any comment about the benefits of WEGO, like a personal insult. They are cleaning up the people with different minds, only the official opinion is supported. Soon, RealTime benefits will be the only true... and less and less people will check the CMSF forums, to discuss about WeGO. Then Battlefront will hear only a single opinion, discarding the need of any work about true WeGO... and i'm not speaking of pathfinding, or TCP/IP implementation. I'm speaking about the hight quality TacAI that you need to make true WeGO even possible, with 100% dedicated CPU calculations all the time that you need... for a good TacAI solution. Good AI algorithms, needs enough time of dedicated CPU. What a pity to be out of reality... i wish that they can read all the stuff posted in the most important fan forums of any language or nationality about WeGO, outside here... They will never heard about it on this forum, with the intensity that those many players think about wargaming and the quality of a wargame, outside here... on the wargamer's fan websites. [ September 12, 2007, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Cid250 ]

That's not true... we doesn't have WeGO in CMSF at all. Only a vanilla version of realtime-auto pause. To get WeGO, you need good TacAI that makes your troops act more realistically when they spot some targets or become under fire. This game is fully realtime oriented... don't even speak of WeGO, if you want to sound like a serious reviewer, WeGO it's only the name of the menu that they placed in their realtime with auto-pause option... all the maths of the TacAI are done in real time... without any stop for 100% dedicated CPU calculations.

... sorry, double post.

The CM2 engine is crap, from the point of view of tactical-AI. The core of the CM2 engine will never improve the quality of the TacAI, since it's developed as a pure real time strategy game in mind. And it's like designing a race car and expecting to be used as a heavy truck. The engine is unable to perform the task... due to design concepts and physical limitations. The future WWII product developed over the CM2 engine, will never be of the level of quality that the games based on the CM1 engine had. They will lose a lot of time on complex 3D models, and 3D animations for any piece of equipment... resulting on a very narrow diversity of WWII weapons... We will lose the Romanians, the Finish, and of course the infantry weapons available will be reduced for every country. Don't expect to see every model of tank that you have already in CM1 to be present in any edition done with CM2. Combat Mission Campaigns is perfect for the old series of Combat mission, since they are also designed as quality wargames from the "Core" of the engine.

Not yet... since our TacAI sucks and it surely will suck in the next 365 days of development. WeGO is not about fix path finding. A good TacAI is the core of WeGO, (even for multiplayer WeGO).

Luddite. </font>