Kellysheroes

[Very few of our total customers (which this Forum represents a small and distorted slice)] Wow, to think, I'm just a small and distorted slice. ;( [We currently service probably 1/100ths of a % of the entire gaming market. If we grabbed the attention of another 1/100ths of a % of the gaming market out there we'll have doubled our customer base.] Creative Assembly did this with Rome Total War and alienated most of their previous customer base who many have now moved to Slitherine's upcoming "Legion II". Since I am such a "small and distorted" figure, I guess it doesn't matter much to the capitalists. Losing 50 and gaining 100 doesn't matter to them much, losing 50 that helped keep them in business in the first place, buying their initial products, becoming loyal and buying the others when released is just plain ole insignificant when it comes to the bottom line isn't it Steve?

I think what Steve seems to miss and their critical mistake, is while he boasts of a new game for us in 6-8 months, he forgets that many of us may be waiting still two years for a game module we are "interested" in. I certainly am not interested in currest or near future warfare or Doom Lobsters as he speaks is part of the initial 5 modules. The wait for the average BFC customer for CMx2 titles they are "interested" in could be no less than the wait on the CMx1 titles. At least we knew what we were getting and they were theaters of WWII. I think it's going to just split the customer base into slices of pie. Instead of getting the full pie only slices will be bought at each interval of a new module. The customer base drop could be even more significant than over the period of 3 years for the CMx1 titles. I bought them all mainly because they were WWII titles and came with a quick battle system. Personally for me if it's not historical and pre 1950, I just have no interest in it. I'm sure I'm not alone.

I think what Steve seems to miss and their critical mistake, is while he boasts of a new game for us in 6-8 months, he forgets that many of us may be waiting still two years for a game module we are "interested" in. I certainly am not interested in currest or near future warfare or Doom Lobsters as he speaks is part of the initial 5 modules. The wait for the average BFC customer for CMx2 titles they are "interested" in could be no less than the wait on the CMx1 titles. At least we knew what we were getting and they were theaters of WWII. I think it's going to just split the customer base into slices of pie. Instead of getting the full pie only slices will be bought at each interval of a new module. The customer base drop could be even more significant than over the period of 3 years for the CMx1 titles. I bought them all mainly because they were WWII titles and came with a quick battle system. Personally for me if it's not historical and pre 1950, I just have no interest in it. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Goes away grumbling about "Space Lobsters" even being part of a BFC title. <mumble, mumble, groan>

Maybe the first module will be the land battle for Guadacanal, now I could go for that. They never did any Pacific War stuff, so even though still WWII it would be a totally new theater of operation. Yes, my vote goes to Guadacanal. Who's with me? heh

I like the absurd battles. Letting the computer pick the place, time, units, everything has led to some wonderful games against the AI. The absurd ones are when it gets crack troups and everything I have are green. Those are some damn tough battles and fun as heck trying to win one especially with the handicap I give to the ai. And yes, I see some people must have "exact wording" when I say random I'm talking about Quick Battles setup with random everything. The best games I've ever played. One thing to STEVE for the Quick Battles random setup, I'd like to see you add "random" to the handicap the AI gets as well. That way I won't even know the handicap level it gets at the start, could be zero could be 200% that would be kewl also to have that randomized. Also for the computer experience level of the AI, adding "random" there as well would be welcomed. [ June 03, 2005, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Kellysheroes ]

Wow Steve, I'm thouroughly amazed you didn't sell as many copies of CMBB/CMAK as you did CMBO. I mean I'm a tough nut when it comes to buying computer games, but, your series as you said gave more than any other 3 wargames combined. How could anyone not buy all 3? I don't even like the Russian front, but, I was right there waiting for my copy just because of all it offered. Now, I have as many different types of random generated battles as I want vs all types of units and countries. I guess my percentages of 20% customer base loss wasn't so far fetched afterall if you are giving fair comparison figures to actual sales of the CMx1 titles. Now, I'll give examples of why I like random generated battles and why it's a must for me in my purchases. Random adds that continous "whatif" to a game. A pre-set scenario or scenarios gets boring and stale. You eventually learn where everything is setup, where it's going to move (the ai), it's like playing the same game of chess over and over with no variations. With random at least in the CMx1 series, there's plenty of variation to what I will face, how I will deploy and of course the terrain changes from battle to battle and of course the AI handicaps. And being able to "buy" my units each battle just increases that randomness to the battle and the outcome. Many games though I just let the computer AI buy my units for me and I play what it gives me. This has unlimited value to me. It's what's made Battlefront the best game developer in the world to me. And as far as saying if it doesn't have a random battle generator, I won't be buying the games, isn't a threat or a whine, it's just a buying preference fact in my case. I'm so addicted to random generators (blame it on Civilization I hehe) that if a game doesn't have one, I'm just very prone not to buy it. Except in the case of HPS Gettysburg which has 100's of scenarios and even the campaign game can play out differently each time through it. It's a different kind of random in that how you play one scenario determines the next scenario you play. I kinda like that also, but, it's still not as good as a pure random battle generator to me. Even a game as old as "monopoly" has a random system to it in the "quick game rules", you get random properties at the start each time you play it, I always liked the quick game rules vs the regular game. And as far as challenge, for each type of battle situation, I've always been able to handicap the AI enough to get a challenging game out of it. Oh, I know many think it's a cheat and whatnot, but, overcoming the odds has been part of real warfare for centuries, so, I don't mind giving the AI advantages as long as I feel challenged. I'm not much into PBEM or internet games. I'm prety much a solitaire type player when it comes to computer games. Tried AOE online when it came out and there were so many hacks and cheats, just never enjoyed playing against humans. Humans are devious, they will cheat to win, they will lie, steal, lol, just about anything to win it seems even a mere game. I had a friend growing up when we played board wargames that would "slide" the dice everytime so he'd always get those 1's or 6's, we finally had to make him roll them out of a cup. lol KYLE ARE YOU OUT THERE? HAHA With an AI, you already know what cheats it gets, it never deviates or adds its own cheats beyond that. Those I can deal with, human cheats I cannot. So, my interests in CMx2 will of course be the randomness and the challenge level. Those are just my buying preferences, just hope you don't let me down. But, really "Doom Scorpions from Outer Space"? You really aren't going to make a module on that are you? lol I probably could deal with a "Storm Troopers" module though, had the AH version of that game.

LOL Steve, now look who's whinning. lol You should know by now "change" always begats trouble at least for a little while. I could list some "amendments to our constitution" as some examples of changes many did not want to see. I for one am not knocking the system, I'm just stating how I individually feel about it. It's not a whine, it's not a rant, it's merely a fact. You give me random generated battles, I'll buy most of them, of course I already know I won't buy all of them, since now with modules you give me "more selection" of choices too. Heh, we've all probably been on that side of the fence drooling and waiting for the next game title release, only to be disappointed when it was finally released, I felt that way about Rome Total War, spent two whole years on that forum giving feedback and discussion and the challenge of that game is nothing compared to your games. I beat the Very Hard/Very Hard difficulty the very first time through, I was thouroughly disappointed in the challenge level of it. Modules, full campaigns, all in one package, whatever, if the game has no challenge to it, it doesn't matter how it's delivered, so that's really the most imporant feature next to random battle generator in my book.

Let's do some math here and sort of show how the new module system will work for Battlefront and for us. Now, CMBB came about 2 years after CMBO. And just for simples sake I'm just going to use 1000 customers as a base and $40 for each game including shipping/handling and all that stuff. CMBO made them $40,000 in initial sales. Then in 2 years time they made $40,000 on 1000 sales of CMBB. Then roughly a year after CMBB they made another $40,000 on 1000 sales of CMAK. (they double their profit margin here by putting another game out in a years time vs two years.) Now, lets look at the upcoming modular system. Initial module will be $40 (remember these are just simple round numbers to make the calculations simple and understanding the priciples of it easier). Now, the ??? comes into play, how many of the origional 1000 customers will buy the first module? Let's say there is a 20% loss of the customer base just as an example (might be more, might be less, it's merely an example figure). So, only 800 copies sell at $40 a shot, roughly $32,000 initally for the new type game. But, then a mere 8 months later a new module appears, and once again only 800 customers buy this one, but, it will only be $20 for the module instead of the initial $40. So, now, they make $16,000 Now, comparing CMBO and the time frame to CMBB, they only made $40,000 on 1000 sales of CMBO, but, with the module system, they will net $48,000 in 8 months ($32,000 + $16,000) of the new release. Then every 8 months a net of $16,000. Which three 8 month periods would be 24 months (two years) the time between CMBO and CMBB, so the intial $32,000, plus 3 x $16,000 (48,000) equates to a grand income of $80,000 which "equals" out to the same income they had overall with CMBO and CMBB in two years. We the consumer will now have (4) modules, (those of us that buy each one of course). In essence we'll still be getting the same "value" for our $$ in cost, but, we probably won't get the "longevity" of each game like we did CMBO/CMBB/CMAK that's the kicker and that is what will turn some consumers off to the new idea of module based games vs full theater of operations and all those vehicles, infantry, etc. etc. all in one package. I'm guessing a 20% loss in consumer base is probably extreme for the initial release, probably closer to 10% or even less. And as that % keeps going down, it means a greater profit margin for Battlefront in less time over a period of 3 years. Which is good for them and us in the long run, keeps them in business and us in new/different types of wargames. I'm sure their expert economist has figured this out way ahead of me, thus, the reason for the change in deliverance of the games to us in the future modules system. I know I for one will be picky and choosey, I bought CMBB merely because I liked getting "everything" in one game, but, never really have been a big fan of the Russian front games. So, with the module system I'll most likely pass on those and probably only buy the American modules since those theaters interest me most. I have a feeling many others will be as particular and picky as I am. Then of course there will be games made outside of the WWII theater altogether. Who, knows what kind of sales figures they will get on those types of games. I can already tell you I'm not a Doom Scorpions from Outer Space fan already. lol

A great addition and finally the ability to use the features of CMAK in the CMBO theater. Thanks a bunch for this fine mod. First one I played was "Saving Pvt. Ryan". Now, question, where can I get more "campaign" type mods. The ones that interlink several senarios together. This mod only came with like "five". I need bunches more.

Well, because they spoiled us and now want to ween us off the candy, I foresee some very disgruntled people in the future. Since the random map generator is my only concern, waiting for "one" module with it will be all I have to consider. But, I too am not a module/expansion type buyer. I see it too much as "milking the donkey" when a developer/publisher uses the same engine and just warps another game title/type over it. Paradox is well known for this with their EU engine. It rings loudly of ASL to me, and one can sink 100's of dollars into ASL if you get everything. But, some will enjoy the system, they certainly do the ASL system, but, I fear the consumer population will drop considerably vs a complete theater game like they already spoiled us with. You just can't give a kid a whole bag of candy one day and then tell him the rest of his life he only gets 1 piece every 8 months. He'll go find another mamma and pappa. Or dial 911 and tell them that he's being "abused" lol

Steve/Battlefront.com you didn't answer my question. Will the CMx2 series modules have random battle generators/quick battles as in CMx1?

Ok STEVE all I want to know is, is each module going to come with a "random battle generator" like the CMx1 series? I personally don't like set battles or pre-made scenarios/modules. So, if CMX2 is not going to have any randomness to it's modules, then, I'm at least one lost customer to the new engine. I can deal fine with a handful of units per module, but, I gotta have that random, don't know what happened, don't know what's going to happen game setup. It's the reason I bought every one of your CMx1 titles. It's all I play are the random generated battles and CMAK has the best preselection setup of them all I think.

And what do we want to do? Well, we do want to make a whole range of cool games other than WWII. [unfortunately for Cold War aficionados, Cold War isn't on our Top 5 list. And since we don't have a list beyond the Top 5, Cold War is effectively not even on our radar screens. And even if it were #5, at roughly 8-12 months of development time per title... CW would be a long, long ways away even if we promised right here and now that it would be the 5th game of the series (which I am most certainly not promising ).] Quoted by STEVE Battlefront Admin It's on page 6 of this thread if you want to oggle it yourself.

I vote going backwards instead of forwards to modern warfare or hypothetical cold war battles. I have no interest in it and thus wouldn't buy the product as I think the majority would follow suit an only a handful would really take interest and purchase it. It would be a loss in sales and profit for BG I believe. Anything WWII and pre-WWII I would buy. It's the history I have studied and loved, so, that is what I expect BG to do. Make what is most known about and enjoyed most by the majority of wargamers. WEEEEEE I just read NO COLD WAR in the top 5 games already selected for development. YAY, let's hear it for the BF developers for not doing something silly like a cold war game. [ May 28, 2005, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Kellysheroes ]

Lol RTW Barbarian Invasion, lol, what a suker buy and horrible AI. I'll patiently wait for CMX2 I know it's coming and will be worth the wait. I wouldn't buy another thing from Creative Assembly after their non-patching of RTW ever again.

Gotta admire a noob so interested in the game that they ask so many really good questions. I believe the manual details a lot about some of your question though. But, of course the demo will not. You can trust us though, The Combat Mission series is one of the easiest games to get into and can be one of the toughests to master as you progress from CMBO to CMBB to CMAK. You'll want them all eventually, but, play them in order, you'll get more fun out of them that way and there's 100's of scenarios and operations do download to keep all the games going till well into your 60's. hehe

Patrick Ware, who designed a 'continuous campaign' for CMBO. He created two of these Mini-Campaigns (for a US-Army unit), named 'Any Port After a Storm ' and 'No Rest for the Weary'. Both campaigns are highly recommended and you can download them from various websites. I'd like to find a download site for "Any Port After a Storm" and "No Rest for the Weary". If anyone could link it here please I would be much oblidged. Thanks

Can I have your stuff? Oh wait, that's in a mmorpg when someone says they are quitting. hehe

Back to Normandy? Awww cmon, how about Pacific Island hopping? I wanna kill some Japs. I've wasted enough Germans and Russians to satisfy me the rest of my life, but, there's not enough Jap killing games. BTW anyone know of anyone that did a mod remake for the Pacific War for CMBB or CMAK? I'd be satisfied with that I guess. I had the one for CMBO, but, it got formatted when I installed XP and I lost it.

Heh, if you're a MAC user, you deserve to be left behind. Now, me with my 3.2ghz P4 1g ram system am ready for an upgrade to the GRAPHICS of CMX2. Push it to the limit BF, I have the POWER! I definitely vote for the battle movies file. It's what makes Medieval Total War so much more fun, being able to sit back and watch the entire battle over again, scroll around the map, zoom in and out, should be top priority. A smarter AI unit purchaser, balancing the QB with units equal or better than my own purchases. More blood and screams Partisian and French underground units. (need some females in the game) An AI that branches it's attack more than it does now, too often it's far too easy to figure out where the AI is going to come from. A Pacific theater included with the European Theater. A covered arc "automatic range indicator", I have such a hard time with mortar and bazooka ranges. A "hand to hand" combat animation, knives, throwing helmets, fists, slapping, clawing, biting ears off!

http://www.wargamer.com/thegamersnet/ How can you allow HOI to be game of the month over the great game of Combat Mission series. Get out there and vote.

It never rains in the desert you fool.

Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't, so sometimes I like short battles and usually on weekends I like long campaigns. I'll be interested in checking out that 15 battle campaign when it's finished. I would say though I like most battles even in campaigns to be over between 30-40 turns.

Doesn't anyone use a "sliderule" anymore?