Liam

This is a very difficult question. I am no expert on either subject. Rumour has it that the USSR was gearing up to really strike out on Germany. Though you know how that goes. I'm certian eventually, but when? As far as the United States attacking Germany, I think you should base it all upon Percentages. We never wanted to fight a War in Europe. Not in WW1 or in WW2, at least the Pacific has American interests. That is partially why of the slow D-Day and the slow and smaller sacrifices of the USA in WW2. It's not really American Soil and if not for Britian we'd of likely left it forever. U-Boats attacking American and Canadian Convoys too close to North America Shores is a direct act of Provocation. Certian European Minors would be as well! Primarily that's about it... The best way to simulate a War entry by the USA is to give a big increase for Pearl Harbour and then secondly Increase the Convoys if the Axis do not DOW, and increase the U-Boat war and create a true battle of the Atlantic. Forcing the Germans to decide, do we try the USA's Patience by striking at her convoys or potentially Canadian ones carrying American Passengers? Not just but creating a lot of unpopular opinion. In WW1, the Germans built a U-boat that ferryed Supplies from the USA to Germany, the American's praised it.. Too small and too insignificant but still, true and factual. Once the Germans started hammering Neutral Ships like the Lusitania, it was a political Nightmare, you could say that the U-boat though an effective weapon against Britian and an answer to her blockades was the single most destructive weapon to the Reputation of Germany in WW1, and then again in WW2 adding to it's unpopularity, she'd of been better off not using U-boats at all! ::smiles:: That is my political theory, the USA would remain neutral in both instances forever unless provoked, but do you ignore 200 MPPs of convoy to UK? Or do you send out a wolfpack of say 5 or 6 level 3 subs to stop it? Of course you do, that is same thing as having her an active Power really

Naturally, Normal Dude! Sea Lion can be performed if say there is 1 Corps, 100k British Regulars sitting in Manchester and the entire British Armed forces camping Algeria or Egypt in 1940! Possibly Denmark and Northern Germany! You cannot void out this as an option to the Germans. Neither can you void out a possible D-Day for the Allies. Making it predictable by weather only makes it tougher on the side attempting to perform it. That means the units expecting it will operate over where they are able to prevent it before it comes, or take extreme defensive measures and abandon those regions until. Really just gamey. They should always expect something! Expect the unexpected I say, in this strategic game whose to say what may happen... Anyway with a Real Sea Lion, German's would've likely secured Ports with Paratroopers and then brought in the Army via the Transports, not actually used real transports, it is possible to launch the entire German Forces to sea and invade the USA in this game, it's not like it's actually historically accurate

Absolutely, once at sea the German's would be sort of like Ducks in a Barrel, with the Enigma Intel being constantly compromized worse! Even still, the English Intel had been compromised as well at Sea. The British weren't the only nation actively attempting to break the others codes! Naval and Air Supremacy, as important as an invasion or where it might occur. In bad weather, no invasion could've been performed without running the risk of considering these vessels would run without lights and with extreme secrecy of HIGH LOSSES! German's landing in England should pay a 50% toll to get there and that is how you best simulate truth! Similarly with Allies Landing in unfavorable conditions on the German Mainland, the Brits help themselves through Denmark and Wilhelmshaven. These regions would've been bristling with Heavy Guns, Defensive measures, not an easy task but easy in SC2 terms. The thing is, on both ends amphibious landings are too easy. If you make impossible, England will be abandoned and The Limeys with the tactical Superiority will go off Minor Hopping and Gamey manuevers all about the Mediterreanan. That is why for game balance you cannot make it impossible only costly, which my friends you can do if you know how! It is an artform. Though Recon, Long Range and and using the Russians and Americans to maull the Leftovers is the Art you must learn... That or get rid of the Jump in readiness for the USSR and USA to some extent and make these invasions for both Sides more difficult otherwise you hamper game balance.

Sea Lion isn't important! If the Axis attack and destroy UK, it will cost them more than it's worth if you defended it good. If your units are busy, recon well so you know to expect an Axis attack, that's real simple:)

No, it's not rocket science to get Allied MPPs, it's just knowing how to spend them. It's true what Terif said, DO NOT upgrade your damaged ships, you hide them and protect them with undamaged ships, this is not SC1 and even then, you should wait till they're actually used. Biggest mistake of Young Allied Players. Carriers are not really important, they are precision weapons and expensive to upgrade and use... 4 of them makes only a small contribution to the game. I find they're best on Subs and knocking out entrenched Axis units. If you want Allied MPPs, ignore defense, on go on offense, both diplomatically and on neutrals, but beware the wrong neutrals... Brits can have 2 HQs, 10 land units, and 3 or 4 air units all upgraded by 1942 easy Some by Summer of '41 You get good by practice, I do not study scripts much, some I admit. Mainly from accidents it's funner that way and I'm ok.. I think if Terif went to sleep in this game for about 5-6 months he might of lost... he know's his Map as well as his income... You must learn from experience to know the map, the income and scripts/events will come as well as the strategies Practice, signup for Panzerleague

Cheat all you like, if you must you're likely not learning the latest strategies and you'll eventually lose, you can only review bits of FOW you will still lose 9 out of 10 games vs a better skilled player and a guy with no intregity will lose 9 out of 10 times to a better player

it's only a leaping point to get stalingrad then the Urals, that's it

Blashy, for an example of a slow Allied game where I focused on Goodies and Tech instead of Building mass of units here is a idea of what I can build: Sept 1942 Idea of a slow and fast game: Currently 36 Live Russian Land Units, 12 were killed 12 USA Land Units... 13 British Land Units 5 Land units on the way in the build for all my Majors IT 3 for USA and IT 2 for USSR, low Prod tech as well. USSR with IW3, had it for nearly 1 year along with tank tech3 for 2 years before the war, no good can't get lucky with the rolls besides these two, still no mobility! But I am holding Odessa and Moscow easily so far and it'll require the Luftwaffe to even consider removing me.. My Opponent just luckily took Leningrad before Winter of '43 rolls around... In my Game with HellRaiser, Double all these Same time except British, and about 12 landbased aircraft, but also double the IT early and healthy I'll admit I have every USA HQ built by the end of 1943 and nearly every US Land unit built as well. Now I will nearly have every US Fighter built... 2 bombers, and many many many techs! IT is a gamebreaker for Allies, but you hope that your Axis player doesn't get lucky with his techs so you can balance it out. 10 units with low IW you're right are throwing spitballs, but if they back up in Russia, and wait and gain the Techs, who cares? 50 Russians will kill 30 Germans once they're out of supply and the Reds upgrade... Ask HR, the Axis Minor units are not included in the count.. He has built every Axis land unit in this game so I need these numbers, Axis plow through Allies with low supply and no defensible front if they catch them before they dig in! P.S. what you describe building is interesting, Bombers are good, but do not win the war on land unless they're objectives with them. Pounding Axis MPPs is a waste of time, 4 AntiAir will destroy the effectiveness of bombers! Depending on luck I suppose you can enter Barbarossa with = Russian to German Units.. Not as many HQs and Air units Mind you! that's another 1500 MPPs right there, but you can have 2 HQs, 25 Land Units all IW3 AT3 Mobile 1. By Winter, you get Sibs, and build up another 10!

Look truth be told, Axis do not have an advantage over Allies. I have never lost an Allied Game to any player but Terif since the release of 1.2 out of about I don't know 8 or 9 games... Against Skill levels as high as HellRaiser and Rambo, two of the top of 5 SC2 players... and most of the top 10 players with the most experience... As axis I have lost even with the upperhand. You CANNOT make errors then the Axis are Superior, if you are a Very good and Experienced Axis Player, otherwise most any player can Master Allies within 15-25 games... Though it'll take likely twice as many or three times as many unless you're taking notes to Master Axis.. HR will tell you in our current Game it's 1942, I made a big error and placed my Reds forward in open Terrain and was diced, but I had more Land units than he did in Russia in Spring of 1942 and probably in Summer of 1942 and he now has every Axis unit built due to the Scandanavian Linkup via Leningrad. In the West, I've built every Allied land unit I can build just about. Due to IT and Production and I'm getting close to maxing out every Russian unit given about a year that is A LOT OF UNITS! I will outnumber Axis and I will do a historical kill if HR cannot kill Russia in the Summer of 1942.. Thing vs a Player like Terif is by 1942 he'd of likely already maxed out any one of the nations including Germany as he makes flawless Moves that cost very little. He's a Budgeter and a very thoughful Tactician. Every dime accounted for in other words that translates into A LOT of units! IT makes this game quite historical, my America is sending tons of Units into France, historically the American's and British weren't touching my D-Day of 1942, I have every American Armed Man in uniform and nearly all of them in France and the Brits though lagging behind are pretty in tech ;)this is completely ahistorical, but as fast as Germany can do in Russia I suppose no choice? I will be pushing the Siegfried line in 1943, liberating Vichy and on average I'm killing 250,00 Axis troops per Month in the West.. meanwhile my Russians are being slaughtered by Superior Axis air... I'd say HR has built up a Beautiful Axis Force he still cannot punch through to the Rostov Line

Blashy, you want an example of how I can outproduce your Axis Terif thinks of every unit movement Axis must move much, Allies later do not need to worry about MPPS, I bet ya by 1941 Barbarossa I outnumber your Axis 2 to 1 every time just about

Some Keys for your Gaming: Read Panzerliga strategy by Terif http://www.panzerliga.de/en/docs/lehrgang/lehrg_sc2_eng.php to win as Axis it's a requirement you understand the basic dos and don'ts of the axis. Seems like you left Egypt too late, take it in 1940 the weather is good, and in Europe you can't do jack then because of Mud and Ice... Should've already been done. Next time you invade France, lead up with your corps. they're cheap to rebuy, at half cost so do not worry if you lose a couple. Avoid the Coast, Kill and withdrawl from the frontline. Try to Operate a little less and try to think ahead 10 turns where I want my Units. The TimeFrame is this: Weather is ultimately important 1940 Summer, France must die, Egypt must die by Fall. Sweden-Norway-Denmark: Die. Buy Infantry Weapons, MAXED to 3 Diplo hit Spain to death with Italy and Germany... Hide your fleet in ports and ignore the British Fleets Buy at least 10 xtra corps, couple xtra armies and tanks for Barby, and you'll need 2 HQs xtra for that... If you do this fairly successfully you win if you also mantain momentum and balance and good tech DO NOT leave Egypt past 1940, after you're done with it, move to the MiddleEast conquor Syria and Iraq and prepare for the Russians to come into Iraq via Iran, cut them off... Barbarossa is easy, Kill all the frontlines, head for Leningrad-Moscow or Stalingrad region... Plunder it's resources and kill it's units.. Get Experience, use your air to break up strong points like Entrenched cities in Leningrad... Against Capitols and against corp buildups behind rivers! Do not invest in useless techs, bombers, etc.. as a Neuer player, RECON for your Units or they'll die to enemy contacts Play more importantly 25 games in a row and learn and watch, the moves your oponents use you shall adopt and you'll will get good, by Default GL Soldier

I suppose what you're saying would be nice, but the Maxing out Techs keeps balance, you cannot change it and defines the difference between a substandard soldier and a high quality one. I.E. US PARATROOPERS, were top grade, and expensive to train and outfit. It took a long time to get those men into the field. As were German StormTroopers and Crack Elite Soviet Guard Troopers... These troops possessed some of the first Automatic Assualt Rifles, big guns in numbers, Mobility, etc... Something that say a Buglarian Corps did not possess. In fact it would be shocking to think a Bulgarian corps possessed a Bolt Action Rifle of 1900s grade? Do not throw in one lot with the other. Now a Spanish soldier might have a Fairly modern weapon... Though not heavy equipment like that of the German, British and American Armies. Majors that spent billions outfitting their troops, it's a matter of cash. As the Polish still had Cavalry Units, they were effective but weak vs Mechanized, Armored Vehicles even light Panzers with paper Protection... You have to distinguish from one Army and the other. As far as the Luck Factor is concerned, beware. It's nice but I will tell you, what Terif says about it is true, he's won 100 SC2 games, so there isn't that much luck involved with him. Though I'll admit games I've played him ended 2 years shorter because the luck didn't go even "fairly" my way... I've also seen other games where it dictated the outcome of the war. If you invest in IW, 4 out 5 times you will eventually get it. In time to save Moscow, probably, no. In time to save Stalingrad, probably, have you lost the war by then? Probably... So do not discount it, it has a massive power in Industrial Technology. IT makes it so that when D-Day happens, 2 million American's land with 5 or 6 Fighters and 3 Heavy Bombers, able to strike Berlin! That is the difference, and in 1942! Is this historical? Well, many of you do not know how to tweak the game to do this, but I have done it... I mentioned above for the formula, over invest in IT and forget anything else, once obtained, overinvest in the military techs you desire... % chance means most of the time you'll hit your mark... Allies can outproduce Axis in 1941! I have done in 1940 and brought the USA in, I could likely do it very easily the way the game is setup. With the Swedish and Spanish prerequisites for Germany, that's a huge bump in US readiness. So the next logical move is the UK buys the US with it's money, by 1941 Spring is the average US join date now! By Summer of '42 she can build what Blashy's say 50,000 Aircraft if she wants... Unneccessary in SC2 but still neat...

Major project I'm sure, that many players are likely to cause Huge issues with stability in game. Though the fun factor will make us SCers go nuts! I just can't see too many players being all that hardcore about being stuck with France or Italy?

HC, In regards to Industrial Technology and Production Technology. It's a tough question to answer. Frist off, is that in terms of the balance to gameplay, I'll usually sink about 6 to 8 chits if not more for USA into IT. Several into Production, though a less lucrative Research Area. As the USSR, I'll sink in a good 5-6 in IT and 2-4 in Production. This will if luck prevails yield me about an equal Military by the beginning of Barbarossa if the Payoff happens in a timely fashion. Now if I do not hit my Quotas the Allies will be semi-weak. I expect to have at least IT 3 or 4 for USA by Barby and 3 minimum for the USSR. This is a prerequisite for most Major strategies. Thing is it is heavily reliant on Luck. Plus the USSR in particular must also have her land techs maxed in order to hold out or at least max them out in the 1st Winter of Barbarossa. This is all very essential to the Out Produce the Axis Strategy. A very cautious Axis player will by Summer of '42 built nearly every unit they can build except goody units... Likewise with these ITs done right so will the USSR. I do not think it is wise to beef up the USSR too much, nor to leave all this to luck. IMHO it should be more reliant on fact, the Allies will max IT out and use it as a UberWeapon..Though should be slightly hindered in LandTechs to go early offensives against the Axis.. This is not the case in Strategic Command 2.. You can go on the early offensive as Allies with luck you can also outproduce them early! Raising the cost of bringing in Spain and the USA into the fold of War is very essential, to balance. Also limiting some of the Uber ITs that the Allies achieve. It is almost useless for the Axis to research anything aside from Land Techs.. 90% of successful Axis Players will research only those and LR Air I hope this gives you idea on how the real hardcore players play their game and what they invest in.

Soviet ideology toward military was similar to other areas. Quantity vs Quality. This persisted past WW2 and into the Cold War, however they learned in Desert Storm it was nolonger going to work. Not at least in a Desert War. German's had some other goodies, they plundered the gold out of the bank's of how many Minors and France? That financed much of the Axis war effort, technically how many MPPs would this represent in SC terms?

arada there is only 3 cities there, station 3 minor axis corps and you're good.

Probably a good idea Blashy, that or if you could delay the production of any unit till a deadline after they enter the war. If I am successful with IT and Production as USSR, I can have every tank in the field by December of 1941... That is definitely pushing it but I have done it... Every Corps as well

It's an eventual target, it's a supply nightmare, if you want the Caucasus to be a feesible target you have capture frontline cities like Rostov, then cut it off at Stalingrad, even then the Russians still have full supply even cut, so I've noticed and can place new units there from Urals-Caucasus. Turkey is a must for supply to kill that region The Mountains make it very hard for a player to mount a successful campaign and the Geography and politic system are fairly accurate. The Germans attempted to thrust into the Caucasus and failed

The Region of Moscow would be more vital than 20 MPPs. I am not certian this would spell the end of Stalinism. Nor the Communist party, it's grip was stronger than that. Your assessment of the war in Russia is quite correct, few knew how to truly approach it. Hitler was obsessed with objectives that truly didn't benefit him. I see that the coal in the Ukraine was taken by Germany, Hitler thought it vital, it didn't hinder Soviet Coal production much at all. The point you mention, Hitler switching goals from Moscow to the South, which if taken may have meant more for the morale of the Nazis than for the Russians, who were later in the game More in Need IMO. In 1942, Stalingrad and the Caucasus were assualted, an essential Army group split in two objectives against a numerically superior foe, a blunder. Ultimately none of the Caucasus Oil could be converted to much use for the Germans, Hitler again meddled blundered. Meanwhile Leningrad and Moscow front held firm due to the allocation of German troops to other Fronts. These regions valuable? Perhaps in terms of European Russian Manpower, I would say yes. That lost, would cost the Russians more conscripting power however the Germans were doing no good making enemies of the Russian people to the extend they had. Ultimately short of killing 75% of them, the Germans could not fight both the Russian people and the Russian Army.

It is possible to defend in this way.. Kill and run, like Manny did in Russia, manuever your defense.. would you call that more of a static defense? I think so... Kill of 5-10 enemy units, then dry him in a position than is unworkable..even if it costs you you replace your units and thus keep the bleeding but in attrittion warfare you best bleed him more than yourself and as Axis much more

Defense possible? No

Interesting enough, Hitler had planned OP Barbarossa a bit earlier, but he was delayed in Greece by Mussolini's needing bailing out there. I wonder what a couple months more of decent weather would've bought the Germans!

From personal experience, there would be no morale decrease for losing London! Definitely there would be broken hearts throughout the Empire, and some foreign uprising, but for the average British Soldier imagining Fritz raping his wife in bed would only encourage him further, morale would go up 20-30% in a last do or die effort to defeat the Evil Bosch. Remeber the feeling toward Germans as in WW1 many stories true and false were brought in by Belgian Civilians evacuated from Europe. The Origin of the German soldiers ill reputation. As American's would only fight with more determination with the burning of their White House in the War of 1812... The British had hundreds of not thousands of pillboxes througout the regions North of London in the country to resist the German's to the bitter end..This I know from personal knowledge of British Mindset I am Half British! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillboxes 1.5 million in the British HomeForce! Motolov Cocktails, Bayonets, hunting Rifles many other cheap assembled weapons, somewhat effective in city and guerrila fighting... The British would have been more like the Russians than some may believe!

Ironically... I was quickreading some History, the Russian referred to the war with Napoleon as the "Great Patriotic war of 1812" some "the War of 1812!" Intrigueing, as WW2 is by Russians the Great Patriotic War. Moscow was not the Capitol, Peter the Great had moved it to St. Petersburg to make it a more Naval and more Westernized Nation the previous century. I suppose this was of great consequence during the war? Moscow was burnt to the ground, completely destroyed during Napoleon's capture of it! Napoleon lost more men to attrittion this I know by fact and history than he did to the Russian Army. This is somewhat an issue with the German Army. Low Supply means the effective fighting force of the Germans and their morale is hindered as well... they do not go into battle at supply 8 or 9 often, where they might in France or other Theatres. They go in with 6 or 7 at times, not ideal! Often losing Supplies to Partisans getting scorthed Earth... As in history, Napoleon's Ally's were not reliable, nor were Germany's... As of 1812 the largest Invasion force in European History had been assembled to invade Russia by France. Ultimately as a bit of Irony on top of it all, there is good evidence the defeat of Napoleon lead to the Emergence of Germany from a state to a Nation.

Winter 1941 Frozen in their trenches German boots cannot be kicked clean off ice. So Axis troops hold out on Winter Offensive in USSR. Gather and regroup for the Offensive of 1941 which starts early! In Spring, with clear weather in the South... Finland had fallen during the Winter despite the shipment in of Elite German Corps. However the Russians would not ship home Helsinki Industry for most the rest of War due to Axis 18 Inch guns leveling Helsinki to the ground. Around Kiev, Odessa German troops poise for the Assualt into the The Ukraine, to Unite all People's of the USSR under our Iron Cross, crushing all resistance without much payback, Terif withdrawl's his Russian Armies but leaves a strong pocket around Kharkov in entrenched fortifications. Regardless these are captured, along with Donetz Coal and Sevastapol. German Units face Fierce Soviet counter attacks for the Southern Coalfields losing two tank armies. These are an objective Terif does not wish to lose. 6 Axis air focuse their concentrated firepower on reducing the Immense Fortification efforts by the Soviets to Smitherines.. Very effectively... Ultimately despite these successes and the capture of Rostov, The Germans are hurting. North Africa has been overrun. Scandanavia as well. American Armies, corps and tanks with a lightning speed Liberate Sweden and capture Norway... Also open the Baltic Sea to destroy the Kriegsmarine once and for all! The Line as of 1942, as we sit again through another Winter is from outside Leningrad-down through Smolensk to a new pocket which has now formed, the Rostov Voronezh Pocket! Which is bolstered by Axis reinforcements, all units which were destroyed the Prior Campaign are brought back to bare upon the Soviets! However The High Command decides instead of pushing upon the Caucasus or Stalingrad, the objective will be at Moscow to open up the Pocket... meanwhile in the MiddleEast and Egypt, Allied Commando landings pave the way for the Liberation of All territories there conquored the prior years by the Axis, All the way into Iraq the Afrika korp is pursued, so it is now officially the Arab korp We hold out a long time there but the front collapses due to superior Allied airpower and numbers, the entire Med is controlled by Allied Naval fleets but a major landing from the underbelly of Europe is never attempted full scale In the East, we place near 10 armies and tanks mixed with another 10 corps and 6 high experienced Airfleets...all facing Moscow, the objective is to take the Russian Capitol, as the Winter breaks and the ground hardens we hear news, Soviet Counter Attack in the South! Most unexpected. Close to 6 Soviet Tank Armies and upwards of 20 mixed other combats units pour out of the Caucasus and from Behind Moscow. The entire plane is unveiled the Pocket is closed in on and crushed. German Commanders make a last ditch effort striking out in an offensive action to clear the supply lines but is all doomed. The movement North has made our inferior numbers vulnerable to Attack and we're squeezed like a grape.... Meanwhile American's land in Prussia from Sweden and Brit's are landing Normandy, the Germans seek peace not wanting to prolong the war and lose anymore troops in the field, it is a total route to continue Aftermath: Germany had the Punch in '42 I kept them relatively Beefed up but that year was a building year for the Allies, they must outnumber Axis 3 to 1