Terif

Kuniworth: I agree that new players also have to learn the rules and how to behave. And if Oliva had played other games and/or posted in this forum after your game with him, then I would fully support your complaint. But he didnt show up in the last 4 days and this is nothing unusual in the SC world. Like Bill said: a bit patience with new players is not wrong. However, I am sure things will be cleared when Oliva shows up the next time. [ July 25, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Kuniworth: As far as I can see its a bit too early for a complaint about Oliva2003. You started your game at July 21. You complained TWO days later that he didnt answer you !! From the thread where you talked about the game it seems he had problems joining (it was his first ZL-game, so this can happen) and stopped trying for this day cause he had no more time... Anyhow, many SC players dont check the forum every 2-4 days. Most come here once a week or sometimes every second week. Especially since Oliva is new to SC you cant expect him to check regularly except he said something else. Kuniworth, you are playing SC for a long time now. Think about helping new players and not accusing them immediately when they are new to the game and the forum. If you want to continue your game with Oliva, how about sending him an e-mail ? Or waiting a few days. Looking at the recent posts of Oliva I think he will probably have a look in the next couple of days. He usually posted every 3-7 days.

Hueristic: Some things cant be reflected by the bid... If the bid would reflect the Rome gambit, then the game would become unplayable for all people who wants to play a "normal" game without gambit. The bid would force them to use the gambit or loose if they dont do it. Then the game wouldnt make fun any more when it is decided in the first 5 turns for most players. Experienced players can still win against the Rome gambit, but all new/intermediate players would have lost immediately. That was the reason for a house rule against this gambit in the ZL. Against everything else there exists a counter, but not against the Rome thing.

Hi Zapp We talked about a house rule of no LC gambit in turn 1. But this was in case we would use another bidding system where we would give France additional mpps. There a house rule would be necessary, cause only together with no LC gambit turn 1 it is possible/useful to give France mpps. But in the current system it is not necessary to make a no LC gambit house rule. As you mentioned some people tried to do LC gambit turn 1. But even when it was taken by Allies they lost in the long run. I never lost a game because of the LC gambit turn 1 (so far I only lost ONE single game at all ). And I have to say: Axis position and chances are better with a LC gambit turn 1. Its the best thing that can happen, if Axis wants to win fast. (But the game doesnt make much fun). Rambo: During the week I dont have so much time...(especially not this week, you can check the opponent finder forum/ ZL report section ) The LC gambit turn 1 is a high risk: if it fails Allies usually have lost. If it is successful then new players can be crushed, but its no problem for experienced ones. In contrary its better for Axis than a turn 2 gambit (Allied units are not in the right position, Axis units are or should be . Therefore I have nothing against the LC gambit turn 1 in terms of winning. If it is done by Allies I can be nearly sure to win. But its not so much fun to fight a short,micromanagement war where the decission falls in France and often Allies surrendered after Paris was captured. Summary: I vote against the house rule. Its up to the allied player if he wants to loose fast and without much fun .

Oak was faster

For Spain: yes. Hungary and Bulgaria dont join any more if you attack Spain, therefore its better to wait until they have joined before attacking. Vichy has no effect on the minors, you can conquer it any time.

Axis turn 5: Germany reached Paris, destroyed 2 enemy units and cut off a french army in Maginot. Perhaps a bit early, but nothing unusual. Unexpectedly Allies surrender ! Still hoping it was a joke....with such a high bid and lots of mpps for Russia (1800!!) war is decided there, not in France. If you want to continue Zapp, I keep my autosave. I dont think you want to use yours because of your kamikaze moves during your last turn.... [ July 20, 2003, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Axis turn 3: Poland surrendered (only 2 polish units survived). France bought a Hq, but was lacking corps to block Germany. So Germany could break through, cut off a french Army at the coast and attack the Hq near Paris. Both subs lost. [ July 20, 2003, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Axis turn 2: Denmark DoWed turn 1. LC surrendered turn 2. Warsaw will fall next turn, 3 polish units destroyed. Canada joined at the end of the Allied turn, not at the beginning. Allies DoWed Ireland in their first turn. Ireland corps moved north to spot an enemy carrier. 2 subs engage, one is surprised by an UK battleship, but the other came through and damaged the carrier heavily.

1:8 bid system. Bid level 225, e.g. 225 for UK and 1800 mpp for Russia.

A photographer made some screenshots in the middle of Axis turn: The survivors of the UK fleet + carriers attacked and sunk 2 italian transports outside Canada. Axis ships retreated to Brest. [ July 18, 2003, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

March 1942: Kiev conquered, another russian tank destroyed near Leningrad. Odessa still russian, second german tank killed east of Odessa. Axis forces move forward in England: 2 UK corps killed, Edinburgh under siege. Only 1 UK corps + Montgomery and some US units left. Axis naval forces and landing troops move towards Canada to cut off US reinforcements.

February 8, 1942: Russian tank killed near Odessa. Riga captured. Heavy fights in southern Russia. Axis landing forces in England capture London, new Hq landed through the port. UK Government moved to Manchester: next target. US army under air attack. Axis seem to have naval superiority, no Allied ships in range any more since many turns...(all heavily damaged except the 2 US battleships)

Turn 1 after Barbarossa: All three minor countries surrendered: Iraq, Greece and Portugal. Riga and Odessa cut off, last russian front armies destroyed. Many new russian tanks have been built in the front cities. London corps survived 5 ground and 5 air attacks at strength 1, but now it is totally surrounded... US armies and corps move towards London for defence. New transports along the english coast. Subs raiding in the Atlantic.

November 16, 1941: The war has begun... Axis declare war to: Portugal, Greece, Iraq and Russia. Capitals of the 3 minor countries taken or surrounded. All 9 russian front armies cut off or destroyed. Axis forces land in England, London corps under heavy attacks from 4 sides and air, but survives this turn. Naval bombardment from italian ships in middle England.

October 1941: Another 4 UK ships killed in the battle of Britain, last german cruiser lost. New german subs fight side by side with their italian brothers . US land units arrive in England to defend its cities. UK air is hiding in Ireland with <5 strenght so that it cant be forced to intercept. Axis transports wait with the landing for the russian war. Russian readiness: 87%: preparing Barbarossa and multiple strikes.

August 17, 1941: UK ships attack Axis transports near London and Manchester. Italian navy arrives (Gun laying radar Lv2) and starts killing UK ships, together with german air...

August 1941: Axis transports appear along the english and irish coast.... only one UK airfleet and a carrier intercepting the heavy air attacks in southern england.

July 1941: Germany reached Lv3 jets during the battle. London and Manchester under heavy air attacks. One of the fleeing UK airfleets killed, both surviving airfleets heavily damaged.

June 1941: The biggest battle of the war in the english channel . Every single german airfleet (7 of them) and ship is called to battle. 3 UK carriers heavily damaged and left with 2-6 strength points. UK air and carrier retreat to the north, followed by german air and ships. Brest conquered. Thousands of mpps destroyed at both sides... Gibraltar still under heavy attack, will fall next turn after a Hq arrived. Yugoslavia surrendered.

Spain surrendered in April 1941 after a 2 turn battle. Yugoslavian capital encircled and under attack from all sides. Heavy airfights in France. Bulgaria joined a while ago. [ July 18, 2003, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

German air is needed somewhere else now and its very expensive for Allies to attack the ressources. March 1941: Spain and Gibraltar under attack. 3 spanish units killed with the first wave. Next turn Madrid will fall. Yugoslavia coups.

November 1940: Hungary and Romania joined.

October 1940: Allies land and take Brussel with a french army. Immediately destroyed by german forces, Brussel retaken. Bergen+port under heavy air and land attack. Port reduced below 5, so the corps has to stay and die . Finally Germany reached Lv2 jets and can now fight on equal terms with UK. Alexandria and Suez conquered. The Med is totally Axis now.

September 1940: Sweden surrendered. First research success for Germany: Lv1 jets. Very valuable in the Brussel battle. The rescued free french army stands outside of Brussel ready to take it after it is abandoned now...