88mm

emerge? you mean, just pass it through? yes/no I rush (fast forward) with all Vehicle/armor just behind the smokescreen. Then unload and positioning my stuff. Only thing is, sometimes you still get shot at, and then my respons is to try to konck it down, send some more tanks to support (not too far forward but still). So my "overwatch" isn't ready yet, it's in the make. Am i making it to far forward? A nice strip of trees/bushes looked good to me to make a "overhead". trouble is it's insight of those pesky At. Thought i could still use it to cover it with smoke. driblets :confused: sorry, my english fails.. Broad? 200 metres ? I aim where i suspect them, behind the smokescreen. And no, i don't fire a battery on a single target. Yes, but where's the overwatch? All my tanks, well 7 or 8 are moving forward.. Besides, most of the time when they are behind they can't see that one AT i wanna kill. Well, dunno. They panic, get shot at go routed.... they see me too Looks i make every single tacticale mistake with every possible unit there exist. And that's weird, in stee panthers i do just those things you mention, inf forward, detect gun, tanks surpress gun, inf kills... Only in CMBB i don't seem to get a good overview of the field, i can't "read the map" as good like i could in Steel Panters.

This map is really killing me firts i have to hide every single vehicle, otherwise they are pounded heavily my enemy art. Second i have not yet the right tactics to deal with those :mad: damn :mad: At-guns/pill-boxes. As scarface mentions, my fault is to rush the armor too far forward. But the problem is i can't manouvre my infantry/MG-guns/mortarts in a good position without heavy losses.... Last try started well, but it all fails when i reach the "jump-off" spot (some nice covered tree's) Again most of armor K.O. and some SPW's. Enemy loss sofar 5 guns and a pillbox with some inf. turn 14 of 35 and score sofar 12/45% Think i let my troops in cover and bypass this nigtmare I used 1 105mm for smoke, the rest 2x150/2x105/2x81morShells HE , just pointed in the area of attack where i suspect enemie-precence, delayed with 2/3 minutes, to make my inf. catch up and suprpise the shocked enemy. Still, i do something seriously wrong. Biggets trouble is to get those nasty (cheap-field 81mm/50mm)mortars in position to do something usefull Oww, sorry. That's not exactly what i mean. I mean the sheet where you fill in the results for your single units. Anyway, it isn't there, but i see in the Excel-sheets why; So for a small Mortat a add 5 bonus-points to the casualties (inf) ? and the bigger 81mm 15? how about the 120mm then ? That must be worth more... Some clearafications; SPW > Vehicles or light Armor ? Pz IIc > Light Armor or tank ? and a SPW sp/2 or a SPW FLAK ? [ May 14, 2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

Ow well. Everybody seems satisfied and/or pleased with this. so it's no use to keep nagging about it

Nice to see you already thinking ahead while i ain't leaving yet. thks for the support and the interest....

He, i am new here. And i hoped for some more interest from other players. But that seems not to go happening. I have made 4 invitation's for a SC game and the respons was zero. Sure i intended to maintain the ladder. But i also assumed that there is more interest. You may call it childish, i have a different thought. [ May 13, 2003, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

He, i am new here. And i hoped for some more interest from other players. But that seems not to go happening. I have made 4 invitation's for a SC game and the respons was zero. Sure i intended to maintain the ladder. But i also assumed that there is more interest. You may call it childish, i have a different thought. [ May 13, 2003, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

No, i don't understand. Every roll of the dice is a action on itself, why should it be different when you start rolling the Axis Parameters :confused: Ow, i use Biltaid lately. The Excelsheets are hopeless, more so when you don't own a printer. But in the excel-sheets i see favor-points for KO/Aban. Mortars. In Biltaid i find nothing of it (mortars). another thing: Can't you change the player experience with biltaid ? It just starts with regular.... Also i am puzzling why there is such a difficult calculation made for favor. Is it realy a must? Can't there be a more simplified manner to get more or less the same results. Dunno, but i have the feeling that things are overdone. Some people may find it amusing to jump from unit to unit after the battle, writing down the status, kills etc.etc. what's the differnce between a burned, Knocked out or abanded vehicle anyway. they are out of order, not? There's just too much nitpicking. Seriously, someone should re-examine all this stuff and ask himself; is this really nessacairy :confused: Seahawk Well, my 1800 art. didn't helped me much. guess i made some serious mistake. My forces were setup for a left-flank manouvre, covered by smoke from 2 105mm art. the first action went well, knocked out one mg bunker which was placed on the utmost left-side of me. My Spw's,Tanks and troops rushed to the smokecreen. Unfortunatle i lost 1 Pz 35t underway , a small hole in the screen gave a At-gun the chance to knock it down. turn 4 i passed the smoke, and here i ran into trouble immedietly. turn 4/5 the HE barrage started too, with 2x150mm Art en 2 x105mm art. But my pz. core ran into a screen of AT-guns and MG-bunkers+At-pillbox. Lost all Pz 35t after a fierce shoot-out, 1 PzIIIh and some SPW's. After a quick re assembling of the remainder task-force i could push toward to main-flag and fighted for a disappointing draw... My infantry were never in a very good position, total overal kill's for my squads/mg's; 50 inf... Think i am gonna play battle 2 over....

Thks seahawk, you cleared some questions for me. Never knew you Player Skill can be upgraded by the rules So suppose i can buy 200 inf and 200 armor; when i've done that and still have 300 poit left, i can buy whatever i like from those 2 categories.... Ow, i was lucky with the dice, i can buy "rare" stuff. Is that just one unit or may i buy more 'rare" stuff ? And yes, i still gonna make a campaign. Aldo i am too lazy to micro-manage all footstuff units. the fist meters are fine (groups selct) but when the fights start, you have to check every single unit and/or give orders.... gues i need more patience Battle 2; medium/assault/ with 1800! p Artillery lol

You need high favor to upgrade ? And i use bilt-aid too, most times i have more cash left then i spend on my core/taskforce. Can i use the remaining cash to buy stuff to my likin? Can i use the cash to upgrade? ps; just started a new campaing (ps=regular). Managed to make a tactical victory at night against a +25% ally. My core tanks survived, losses were 30 cas and 8 kia. Are these acceptable ? (aldo 4 units are green and 1 conscript)

Jesus :eek: 10 minutes to calculate your turn ? I find it already hard to wait 2 minutes What sick mind has made this they should "hang" him ps: seen that awfull delay when clicking units, takes 3 a 4 sec to popup the controls. Also my waypoint-marker 'delays". Horrible, never tried to start this monster... [ May 12, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

Agreed on that. There must be something wrong here. while most player call the Hetzer crap, the germans in WWII loved it. Now if the Hetzer was that bad, why would they love it ?

I get it. It's a stupid game

that's why it is confusing. While the game not mention prisoner lost, BCR does. WHY? Wasn't it easier to follow to keep it "prisoner taken", and then cross-link the results (under de code). so when there's a They/our sheet. You fill it in under "our" which afcource have no effect on the left sheet-result, but effects the right column (they). The end-result is the same, but it's easier to follow then asking the opposite which is provided by the game-results. Also, it's obvious when you have a 10 men squad, and say that 8 men alived, 2 must be gone right? i mean, these sheets are a nightmare for a beginner. I still don't know what to do with my survided tank-crew. Or the immobile tank for that metter. So many rulez, sub-rules to the rules and sub-sub-rules(notes) to the sub-rules of the rules. Can you follow what i am saying :eek: another example, the guide says you can upgrade your core-units. When ? with what money you are allowed? Then it says in the same breath better not to do so, since it can spoil the balance. Why say you can then in the first place, Forbid it , simple. Or add a time-table, or allow only upgrade in the same series PzIIc > PZIIF and PZIIIG > PzIIIH .. Then the roll-the dice stuff, when it's above 10 you have a 10 right. Now look at the arty-table, when it's a 10 AND within a time-frame/weather whatever you should go to 9. Very difficult to follow... Maybe i am doing something wrong, but the way i see it there's a 1 out of 10 chance that you can buy planes. Even less, considering the sub-rules.... don't get me wrong, i love difficult games. But only when the structure is logical and make sence. And that's exactly what i miss. One thing that makes logic; follow the structure of the game.... Why start with the Allies-table (setup) while the game starts (we read from left to right, so left=first) with the Axis. Making rules is one, implementing them in a logic and easy to follow manner is a another struggle.

More group-control, more group control, more group... ow well you get the idea My biggest complaint; lack of group-control...whaT? i cannot order a platoon of Pz to "wedge" , echelon left, right, column or line. stupid. Same for platoons, cannot order a forward recon formation, in line advance , etc. etc. stupid. The whole unit-control should be re-coded. Sure, you can selct a bunch of it, and let them run/walk whatever. but soon it becomes one big mess of men/vehicles whatever... Same as when being shelled and you're men are lying all around your HQ-unit should have a option; regroup. The micro-managment as it is now is way too time-consuming and isn't nessecairy. Control over units is fine, but when you have to tell your men to tie their shoes you're overdoing it Another issue; why aren't crack StugIII-b's firing to support my inf? Really, my men were under fire when advancing, the stugs were in position, closer! to the enemy then my solders and yet there was only one Stug who did something. the others were holding a nap :mad: And yes, they had a fine LOS needless to say, the game-engine isn't "crack" either...

Dunno exactly what you mean. See the rules how it works. Hey, these aren't my rules and i know one thing; the rules suck Anyway, i am alomst 3 weeks here and still haven't find a game-mate. The ladder doesn't attract me also as it is. So i am seriously considering to pass the ladder to someone else. Volunteers?

Dunno exactly what you mean. See the rules how it works. Hey, these aren't my rules and i know one thing; the rules suck Anyway, i am alomst 3 weeks here and still haven't find a game-mate. The ladder doesn't attract me also as it is. So i am seriously considering to pass the ladder to someone else. Volunteers?

LOl. Yes, i know the "double-click" feature for Hq's. But they lack some features i liked in "accros the rhine". such as: Controlling a platoons/ formation with one click of the mouse: line, column, wedge etc.etc. This sort of action helps to organize things quick, instead of the time-consuming 1 by 1 approch. Just love formation, it's so militairy Use of editor; Tried it, but have some fallbacks. You can't start it as a scenario/QB anymore. You have to generate the map and set the flags yourself. Atleast, that's my experience. Anyway, again the timeconsuming 1 by 1 approach to achieve things, and that in a game which is timeconsuming on itself already. A much more user-friendly approach would be a selection before the battle; a one-click solution to equip your tanks and other stuff. Take for example the unit window; why another button for info/kills ? Could have just as easily being seen on the same panel as your unit-info. Again, a extra click. Now a extra click isn't that bad you could say, but if they are all over the place and you must do it all the time it just aint fun. Exactly in a timeconsuming game with such a control you don't want to saddle the users with a user-interface that isn't very efficient. Ow well, that's another story And plz., don't mix SC with CMBB. SC you can forget for what i have in mind. As said before, it's way too much compressed and simplistic. The strategic control should be more sophisticated. Picture a front, 600 miles width, divided in sectors (maps?) with all divisions present on a overal (strategic) map with flags/div. no. OKW orders a assault in sector *.* (ardennes?, Kursk?) so your attention goes to that sector. The map represent a more or less correct terrain for that sector. You have a Intel-report and some advice about expected enemy strenght. You select the batlajon(s)(or Co's) to engage (and which stay in reserve/rest/re-inforce). And play that battle (optional auto-result; not my favorite, but for the pure strategist and the lazy). But the same day the enemy can launch a couter-attack in another area, so you could fight there too to prevent a enemy breakthrough (and if there's a Stratetic Reserve placed not too far away from that area use them to strenghten the defence/fill the gaps or even a make a massive counter-strike; that will teach them ) Afcource i see the difficulty in it for the coders to get it done. Is it possible ? yes? (seen something like this in "across the rhine") Is it difficult to implement in a game, hell yes. Is it interesting, absolutely (when it's done right) Afcource, you shouldn't control the whole battlefield. Only the area's where your fav. Bataljon/Co hangs around. But for a overal Strategic control, you can add some interesting actions. What also was fun in äcross the rhine" 'when you occasionaly forgot to use your arty and/or planes, the Co commander did notice and used it himself where he wanted it. Great, a Hq who can think for themselves Afcource, the better the experience of the Co Hq is, the better they point the enemy ... Seahawk YEEEEEssssss ps: [ May 12, 2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

Glad to see some people actualy get some ideas from my mind-bubbles :cool: Some thought about a new Campaign; -less auxilary units (taskforces) this to avoid/prevent the abuse of such troops as "cannon flodder". -a more "balanced" MAIN TaskForce or kampgruppe with a recon section, flak section and AT/INF gun section. -auxulairy support should primairy excist of; 1- artillery support (yes/no) roll/dice 2- mortar support (yes/no) roll/dice 3) air support (yes/no) roll/dice and only sporadic a extra Tank/bataljon, Inf Company or other group to support in a major conflict. (a blitz, or a fill the gap operation) just some ideas...

Seahawk thnks for the time and effort taken to discuss matters with me. I love a good discussion I've seen strategic command and aldo it's fun for a hour, it isn't what i am looking for. The gameplay is too much "compressed". Like a RPG were i can play for months, i don't mind if a game takes longer then a few hours. One of the best games i've played was "Accros the Rhine" from Microprose. A oldie, buggy but the scene i liked the most. Sure, there were things you missed, but it came close. A bataljon-sized battles, where you enjoy the fight in 3d and 2d. Briefings befor, where you decide which % of ammo you mounted for the Tank-Co's (this is a big miss in CMBB, no control at all). So when intel reported mostly infantry on the other side, the Pz. Commander made sure that e few more HE were loaded, and less AP. Were you have control over resting troops, giving the tanks a day off to fight another day and that sort of managment. And in battle, let the troops fight at their ability. You only control where you want them to go/have and how to do it , (probe, assault, move, deliberate defence, static defencene etc) How they perform then depends on their experience and what the enemy has put up against them.... very realistic approach and very unpredictable i think. also it allows for some larger battles with lots of unit without the time-consuming micro-managment of controlling every single men/squad on the field. You control platoons, companies and when needed and/or prefered, you even control that one single tank. The thing i missed was control of research and development, production and control over the whole battlefront. Would love to decide where and when to deploy this division or start a advance. where you should respond on the enemie where he was trying to make a break against you, iow; to control the front but also to play those battles and view your bataljons/div. in action. Without cleaning every solders rifle and to point them out how to walk and where to go. I asume they know what to do and how to do it. Afterall, why train them ? so Stratig Command is extremely boring. You click on icons, you hear boem boem, and there ya go... great, not. would have been fun 10 years ago, but this is 2003. After Panzer General 1,2 and 3 and Steel Panters 1,2,3 and SPWAW it's time to move a step up. Not to stick with the " old concept".

Don't you think the germans haven't some veterans around? After polen, Denmark, Norway, France/Low countries and the baltic states.... Think again. And becomes a regular squad green after they lose 2 a 3 men ? don't think so, there is still a majority which survided to teach the newcomers a hard and fast lesson. agreed, with only 3 a 4 men left things are different. to be honest, this lvl. of gameplay (tacticle) isn't my favorite anyway. A more strategic game actracts me more. . . and when it is tacticle, i do like the 1st person approach better and also the realtime vs. turnbased. Things like Panzer Commander comes in mind... and when strategic, i liked Panzer General over Steel Panthers.

Hey, without that "brass in Berlin" Barbarossa wouldn't have existed And no, i don't find it amusing to fight 4 a 5 battles in a row against pure infantry, slaughter them with a handfull of tanks, and by the time my infantry arrives there isn't much left to make them score. Ow well, maybe i was unlucky with the dice, dunno. Anyway, i have the feeling that even with a bunch of conscripts i can make it to Moskou. Counting boddybagges is not my pleasure..... So is it difficult ? Yes. Is het exiting ? Depends what type of person you are, for me ;i think not. Will i ever finish a BCR campaign ? No. Seahawk you make one mistake. Just like my note on "take that hill" and hold to the "last men" i just try to make a point. Some things are easier to follow(see) when you overestimate it. So have all the fun in the world, i don't hold it against ya [ May 11, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

For my language; sorry. Don't mean to be rude or upset people. My English isn't the best, that's wy i have a hard time finding the right words and to explain myself. As for my experience; I do play CMBB/BO alot longer then my membership of this board. Where we have different thought about is nothing bad, but just a other view over a given subject. While others seem to enjoy to make a campaign of "survival", where no casualties are rewarded, despite the outcome. Where the experience of the battle-group conuts more then the outcome of a conflict. Fine. Not for me do. This is War, there are goals that have to be achieved. Not the survival of a few men. What's use is a crack formation when you're against the wall in berlin ? Look at me, i fighted 4 years in the east, i am still alive, killed many foes and now i am back, with my last 3 bullets to defend the fatherland. What i am trying to say is this; instead of making a campaign of survival and carefully look after your troops, where most battle aren't such a challenge at all, besides the effect of doing with it extreme caution and preserving your troops. You could however make the battles themselfes more challenging, with more reward for succes. But that's my opinion, everybody is free to have theirs. Then you say; well if the experience-gain is to steep the interest of the players will go away.. later you say; over time the overal experience declined due to losses en shortages etc.. There's a conflict here. The reason i don't find it attractive is simple, i know i can do it. With relative ease, with no exitement (boring battles). So i see no challenge in it. That's a pitty, it could have been so much more then a "paper and pencil"-race as "look at me; i have 4 cracks, 7 vets" type of game. Get to that Hill, take it! Hold it till the last man ! If you succeed, you're awarded. If not, the campaign is in jepordy.

You did not answered my other 2 question; When i fill in the attached unit why isn't there a button for supporting weapons ? Why are there (despite the rules) 3 button's for tanks that you are not allowed to buy :confused: Realistic lvl ??? Compared to what, Second WW ? The germans lost around 1 milj. men in the first 2/3 months. That's 1 out of 3 men that were fighting on the front. There isn't a simple divider either, not every day was there fighting everywhere with every men availible. However, when there was a serious fight coming up, losses were expected and more common then not. Loosing 5 a 10% of your forces was not rare as this was a major push, not skirmishes. Another thing comes to mind, that is CMBO?BB doens't account wounded. Strange, since wounded men were much more common then killed. guess every men that is hit, dies the same minute. Afcource this isn't you to blame . Another factor= the must for scores to gain experience. Looks to me a guy who allives 3 months of warfare is hardly to consider green anymore, aldo his killing wasn't superb. In this rule-set, this is just quite possible. Green over your ears, after seen numerous shells flying around, men dying around you, staring in the face of the enemy. ow well, it's still a game, right ? right. [ May 10, 2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

See how silly you sound. 30 years of wargaming blabla.. and you still concider yourself "regular" ? My god, who is gonna qualify for expert according to your standards ? :eek: The survival is paramount ??? ghi, i thought winning the war is, and the sooner the better. This is more a campaign of trenched warfare then the feared German Blitz. Anyway, knowing what i konw now, i see absolutely no challenge in this campaign anymore. A Supreme Commander knows when he have to make sacrefices and when not. Playing a no-loss allowed "campaign" or you're screwed is not my style. sorry Biltong, i cannot understand the challenge and/or exiting in this. Ow well, maybe i am still too young (39) About my lvl; As i said, i play it as "regular", tat would place me in your ballpark. Can't say i play 30+ years, only 15 or so. Panzer General series, Panzer Commander, Steel Panther series, CMBO/CMBB , Accros the Rhine, I'Panzer '44, Close Combat series(not my likin) and more... Ow well, maybe i look too much as my favorite general; E. Rommel Push..push..push