88mm

Battle 9 -final results The Sovjet infantry could kept at distance quit easily thanks to the whether, 24x HMG/LMG's and the fact that they were concripts. After the first initial succes on the left-flank where some 10+ russian armor were overwhelmed by my battle-hardened Vet's of Platoon 1 & 2 it became critical to push futher to the east to engage the other, bigger formation of armor. Some Russion T34's alreay started to penetrate my right flank, while the 2 50mm/L-60 AT-guns there lay in pieces. To be precise, one down the other panicked. My HQ and the 3d platoon had to wait a little longer to go into the fight after my first 2 platoon engages. Afterall; Head on with 2x PziiiJ and 4x PzIIIh's should not give me much of a advantage. By turn 24/25 the first contacts took place, with some suprise to me yet still no losses from those 2 platoons. Aldo 2 of them stranded in the mud i gues so they were no use to the fight anymore (no LOS). This was the critical fase, any loss now to my first two platoons could end up in a desastrous result in the end. As soon as i noticed most of his Pz turned their hull to the west, i gave the hunt order for my HQ and PZIIIh's to take advantage of it. Lots of side-shots assured from 500m or less ! Few turns later all damage was done, all russian armor was silenced. Time to pick up some more points and take some infantry favor CNN-after battle report: Battlefield 2D overview Battlefield 3D close-up CO-leader Cpt. von Klein in action Lt. showing off his new tank. 1st Companie family-shot

Robert: you have mail [battle-9] Allied Probe (turn 16) As expected the sovjets came with a large Tank-brigade. Total about some 40 armored units and about 2 a 3 Infantry-companies. Waited long enough till my AT-guns started to attract attention from them, luring his armor to the center so that i could achieve nice side-shots with my Armor. My idea was to first start poundering his armor from the left flank where his armor was less pressent. So at turn 12 i gave the "hunt" order for platoon 1 and 2(HQ-Hoth & HQ-Guderian) in a NE direction. More to the East to be exactly to give them frontal prectection and a more or less hulld-down advantage. Turn 13 started well, almost all Pz came in firing position and i always love to see a nice barrage with numerous smokin guns But almost at the end of this turn three of my Pz turned their turret to their left. O-o , a lonely KV was not seen yet and know atleast 3 Pz showing their side to this monster. Things could become nasty pretty soon if not that KV was out of the way :-( . Turn 14: while the KV is still a threat and i shifted the orders (the two Pz and my left engaging/overwatching the KV) i sticked to the plan and after some fierce fighting the first abandod T34's were reported. Losses to my armor: none sofar. Turn 15: The KV is hiding, so dunno what's going on but it does not give you a good feeling when you such a vehicle in your back. Thks to the chaos and the poundering of my two AT-guns + Pz III's in his side the russians run havoc. This looked good but i kept crossing my fingers while any loss of disabled tank could cost me deerly. End of turn 15 the KV is abandoned, the crew are consripts as i later found out. Don't wanna know what happened if they were Regular or Vet's . Turn 16: Not much to tell, but here are some photographic footage from our live CNN-reporer: Zoom in for a better view 3D overview of the russian "probe" Rightflank 3D View

Alright. Rob, if you still interested i have made some images of a battle in progess. Date= march 1942, Allied Probe. Handicap=100% :eek: Prelude: after two succesfull battle with promotion-marker i recieved a considerable blow on my way to promotion to Major A battle low on ammo and weakened just was too much for my Pz CO. Also i ran into some pesky T34's which were too much for a PZIIIH. Unfortunately, i thought i could wait to upgrade them till the PZIIIJ-late came out. The money was there; about 370 favor. So after losing that one, 144 fav was lost. The rest i spended on replacements with 6 Pz IIIj's. The battle before this i achieved a easy victory againt lots of men with only 3x aT and NO tanks so i could buy myself four more PZ IIIj's. Battle 9 Since i expect lots of Armor (russian div=armor) and the knowledge that the Pz III's 50mm/L60 is hopeless against the T34/Kv's armor i decided to place all my Panzers at hidden spots, ready to 'counter" at the right moment. Futher setup: 1x Inf rifle company, 16x HMG, 8x LMG, 7x panzergewehr (lucky me: no rarity this time) 4x 50mm/L60 PAk, 2x cheapo 75mm INf1918 guns and 2 snipers + 2x 81mm Arty. That was all i could muster and seems to be right for the job. Lots of AT-support was needed but also enough firepower to hold of the russian "wave". hence the 24x MG's total, LMG's aren't very usefull but attract enemy-fire away from the more important HMG's so they help relief the stronger formations. They come cheap too

Tell that the GroBdeutchland div. who was poundered from a massiv bombardment, nearly whiped out the whole div. Such scale of AIr-op was clearly needed for a sucsesfull breakthrough. Allied Pz. weren't capable of it, hence the mass losses of Monty at Caen. Anyway, the Pz. did take more damage then only "fuel"-shortage.

Dunno if this is a bug but when i have a QB of 1500, axis assault, QB setup tels i can spend 2250 max while in the excel-sheet there is a max of 2550. Actualy, i am not quite sure this happens all the time so i shall keep a eye on it. 300p or more "extra" to spend can make life easier; afcource :cool:

May i ask why :confused: Seems some valid information and nothing special, so why it should be dubious information is beyond me...

Hmm... Sevastopol ! Betekent dat ook dat we dikke "Bertha" in aktie kunnen zien. En die andere zeer,zeer zware artillerie zoals Thor en Odin ? Zou wel een grappige "mod" zijn Ga zelf maar eens even neuzen op die link, een vette campagne is onweerstaanbaar. Tot over A1,B2 en A2 !

I don't need them, just wanted them ! why 5x? So that my crew can enjoy battle from 41' onwards. And the medals, afcource. Guess i don't want to tell more

Lots of smoke Seriously do: If the enemy have a LOS on the position where you want to deploy your AT the only way too keep it alive is giving cover. Or you drop the gun a little behind at a unseen spot, then the gun-crew must carry it in position and set it up. Again, smoke makes life easier in that last stage. If your turn you truck btw, the gun already points in the right direction. Dunno if that goes faster but atleast the men have a easier job to push/pull that gun in position. Overall it's a "not done" move. the only situation that justify trucks/carriers is a defensive battle, where you misplaced your AT/Inf gun and rapidly transport it to the other flank where the support is needed the most. Afcource you need a save path to carry your gun and eploy it where the enemy not yet is but is expected. Hope this helps

..I am not talking about the ROCQ setup So it's not that it cannot be done in ROCQ. AFAIK you can make any taskforce you like, just fill in the blancs on your sheet; right ? My problem lies in the scenario-editor. When the parameter= 1941 or (year), you cannot buy a 5 panzer platoon of any main battle tank. (remember: i need 4x 5 panzer platoon to build myself a good working CO with 4 formations! Thats a must, so when i double-click the leading tank of any formation (in the game) ALL units of that platoon will be highlighted). Unfortnately; CMBB doesn't allow me to buy a 5x tank platoon of PZIIIF,PZIIIG or PZIIIH. Try it, set the date 1941 and see if you can buy a platoon of medium tanks. ONly when you set the date januari 1943 or higher 5x platoons come availible. Almost all formations are 5x by then, only not the three main-battle tanks mentioned above. This is not a restriction i place upon me, it's for the purpose of easy handling on the battle-field. double-clicking allow me to fast-select a whole platoon and give them orders. With single units floating around in your battle it's harder to keep the formations together. So it's a game-engine problem, nothing to do with ROCQ. Your sheets are 100% bug-free

I know; from 5 to 4 is easy. From 5 to two too. I am not talking about the ROCQ setup, it's CMBB that bothers me. To end with a 17 panthers CO in 1944, with (in CMBB) 1 HQ and 3 platoons and! the right command-strucute (HQ-tank//tank) and 3x (Hq-tank//tank/tank/tank/tank) i have to start the campaign with Pz38(t)e or even worse. That is, if i start in juli 1941. I don't want to have "just a bunch" of indepent Tanks on the field, so a 4xPz + 1 is not a option. This is how i like it and don't get it the way i want, so i don't use a 17pz CO unless i start a campaign later in time when better 5xplatoons come availible.

Well, i use a CO of tanks because i like huge Tank formations. In other words; Panzergruppen Now a Panzer Bataljon is just a little "over the top" and playing with such a huge formation makes the game very slow (long calculation times) i settled with something more convenient; A Pz Compagnie. For the making of my HQ i used a (selfmade ?) trick. While you cannot delete portion of a infantry platoon or compagnie, you sure can delete a tank from a tank-platoon. So i purchased four platoons and stripped two tanks frmo the first platoon. Voila! A offcial HQ with a Commander Tank and a Support Tank My first delight was to create a CO of 17 Pz, based on the SS-Panzer division companie. As you know they consisted of a HQ with 2 Pz and 3x Platoons of 5 Pz. By 1943/1944 they were Panters or PZ IV. But when you start in 41' the only Tank-platoons of 5 Pz are those pesky Pz38(t)e and worse. Tried to play with it, but they seem absolutely useless against AT-guns. Well, you've seen my previous :mad: on the matter. Since i like to play with platoons and not ?x single Pz, a SS-tank platoon is not a option. So now i try to earn myself a Tiger CO , hence the 16 Pz's ! Battle 9 played with the proper rules adopted This was a tough one, very open field with a weakened enemy/40% ammo. 1500 Points QB , Axis Assault and no trees, village and a short field. You can shake hands with the comrads so closeby they are :cool: (1200x1360) Ow, and a minor detail; a +75% Allied Handicap :eek: Played this one several times, with different setup's. Just to gain some experience and see which setup pleased me the most. Of the 6 times i tried, two battles fair relative good. Aldo i total victory i out of the question, ammo runs dry and i just can't kill those rougly 12/14 At-guns with my efforts. Atleast not without losing too much (core)armor. With inf. as support i had not much succes. Buying inf instead of lots of arty/support guns didn't do it for me (maybe because i suck with inf). Without lots of 75mm Inf-gun and 81mm support/art i can't suppress the AT-guns enough so i bought 8x 75mm Inf-guns, 4x 81mm support Mortarts, 3x 81mm Artillery, 3x Stug IIIb and 4x Pz IIc. Only attacking on the "weak" left was the best thing to do with my armored force, while suppressing the "suspecious" spots with the Arty my Armor crossed the field (from a lucky dip in the middle of the map where the enemy could not spot me) from the center to the weak left side on top speed. To keep it short? 2300+ casuaties, 240 prisoners. Good Victory but not total, 700p flags vs 400. One core Pz abanded and 3x Pz IIc + 2x Stugs. Best i could do so i accept this outcome as a "campaign"-result

No. I played most of the time (8x :eek: ) only with my core Main Battle Tank CO; that's 16 tanks and nothing else. No art, no gun, no spw, no inf , no nothing. Not too hard to imagine i had great difficulty to achieve succes And the only battle with Exp. force was 2x armor platoon support, not much help against masses of inf. and AT Yep, got that right. Silly me ignored the support troops too Great to have some cannon-flodder . No really; i suck major with infantry. So far i haven't been able to succesfully engage the enemy with succes using infantry. Guess i am too im-patient and push them too fast. So gimmy Armor any day, together with some inf. too hold those captured flags or just disording the enemy. Weird they didn't agree to co-op. It's a very good thing you're doing and must have taken lots of time. Excel isn't my expertise, otherwise i have tried something like you did long time ago. BCR says; if you don't get it, don't use it and play. Frustating if you ask me, if rules are written they should be adopted. If rules are too difficult to begin with, it's a waste of time and effort to write them down. It is a good thing that as much as possible is taken out of your hands, minimising the input the gamer have to do. Afterall, we are gamers; not bookkeepers. [ November 23, 2003, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

Hmm... think i make it myself very difficult :eek: When i read in the setup sheet (after i rolled the "dice") not applicable i till now asumed i wasn't allowed to buy support at all. So after battle 1 i have seen it 6 times. So 6 times without any support at all. Maybe i assumed wrong here As i am dutch i don't understand every word precisely and when i looked at the translation of "appicable"(googled) i thought it means somethinh like not allowed. example: Support Force Purchase Rarity Limit Max 20% Unit Category Quick Battle Max Used by Core Force Allowed Infantry point value 0 Support point value 0 Vehicle point value 0 Armor point value 1036 Artillery point value 0 Total 3400 1036 2364 This suggest i am allowed to buy 2364 of support, even do there is a "not applicable" by the expploiration force :confused: With the last line i mean: Exploitation Force Not Applicable Exploit. Experience Not Applicable Exploit. Division Type Not Applicable Guess i mix things wrongly, since i don't purchase Exploiration forces and any support at all. So just my core, and a cheap 2 men mg34 lmg unit (as suggested; you have to buy something when setup a QB). The rules are fine, you've done a great job. It's a relief after the struggles with the BCR campaign, which rules i still don't understand 90%. The example given with the Pz vs the AT were made while i suspect some Pz are underpowered againts AT while in reality a CO of Pz could deal with a single AT. Even more when 10 Pz are firing within 500 meters at the same time. So this is more a CMBB issue. update The exploitation force does not count against your support force points. Think of them as extra units outside your command. It's in the rules ! Ow boy; do i feel stupid Playing all these battle (9 now) without any support troops. [ November 21, 2003, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

Only on issue with the names; when you upgrade your armor or troops, you have the delete the old core units in the editor and purchase the new units. The names and ammo have to be adjusted again since CMBB doesn't have a option to upgrade. Atleast, i haven't found a button for it yet [offtopic] Is het normal that a russian 45mm-pak gun can witstand 2x platoons of Pz38(t)E from +/- 500 meters for over 3 turns :confused: :mad: After 3 turns it still ins't dead after numerous pounding with HE-shells (50+). Given the low ammo the Pz38 carries they are empty after meeting 3 AT-guns. Yet you still may hope they killed the target From this distance the AT-hits bounced of, so after 3 turns i closed in to about 350m. Meeting another 2 At-guns; result 1 K.O. 2 immobilesed and still not one single AT-gun wiped out. You cannot blame me for giving up my first try with a CO of Pz38(t)e of 17 Panzers. How the heck can you survive a scen. with only Inf (with at-pak support) when your Pz are worthless against a couple of cheap At-guns, drying up your HE-shells in the process. Now i know, Pz against AT is not the best options but this is totaly unrealistic. Okey, they are digged in but that doesn't make it a Atlantic wall :mad: So, am i on to something when i say the Pz38(t)E is underpowered and/or the anti-tank guns are uberstrenght :confused: ps: a test with a CO of Pz IIIG (14 Panzers) fared little better. engaged 4 At-guns, 1 At-gun went down together with 3 K.O. PZ and 2 Immobelised. With this rate of losses, your CO doesn't have a change without infantry or support troops. Only solution: disengage the AT-guns and find a "sweet" spot (flag) where no AT-guns are present. Only that way you can avoid Tank-losses. A total victory is then also out of the question, so playing with a Armored force is very disappointing since from battle2 onwards you get zero support or most of the time more AT-food; Armor.

Well, you asked for it I agree it's a little complicated and doesn't add much. It's only usefull in very realistic (historicle?) scenario's/operations. After six fights i lost my first Panzer (started with the david/gloliath campaign), promoted to captain underway and upgraded the platoon to PZ IIIj (late). Now, battle 9, feb 1942 i am facing T34 icm with KV's :eek: . No added forces except a PSW223 which i bought for the core. How the heck i keep my Pz alive :mad: Think i run this turn , only to see my 2 promotion point vaporize like snow in the sun where are the 88mm Flak when you need them :confused:

Np. Seems the divider is a multiplier afterall It's puzzled me hard to see how more you attack, the more penalty you recieved. Glad to see it's exactly the opposite as you might expect when pushing hard.

Happy to report the Excel-error is solved. Seems to have been a "security" issue. Also i discovered to follow the points exactly as spoken of in the "control" tab, and all goes well. About the zones; yes it is possible to start whereever you want, checked it (first scenario) and works perfectly. However; you must not forget to fill in the direction in the "parameter"-screen from the editor. In this case, germans started south and the russians north. Then you can setup the rest and generate the map. After that it's easy; mark the zones with red and green where the forces should start. you can even use more colors to divide forces in your own group. For example: suppose you place 2 platoons of tanks. One goes in the green zone, the other in the black. Black and green are both german "jump"-off positions. When you fire up the QB, the platton in the green zone cannot be placed in the black zone and vice-verca. Ideal to force players to make small "battle-groups". One note do: it seems that the QB-setup doesn't place the flags right, so when done this way place the flags in the editor too ps; tested it with static and dynamic settings, the flags are not correctly played either way. So flags should be set manually in the editor. Annoying too is the placement of your units, they apear 90 degrees turned on the West/east edges of the map, aldo they are correclt placed in the right zone. [ November 19, 2003, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

This is exactly what confuses me: 1000/1.5 = 666,67 and 1/0.8 (1-0.2) = 1.25 1.25 x 666,67 = 833 points Where does the 1875 come from :confused:

The big difference at Kursk were the reserves, not only in tanks but more importantly in men. The sovjets had a convenient "backup" of rougly 1 milljon men. The germans on the other hand had virtualy nothing in reserve. After 3/4 days hard fighting, germans troops casualties became the primary factor Hitler (and his staff) called this operation to a halt. The clash at povorovka (wrong spelled) was the moment that the germans felt the rusians had more "up it's sleeves" then they could handle. With less then 50% of their armor availible for action, there was no other sensible option.

Hi, tried your campaign and it seems fun. Minor issue do, when i push the blue arrow to calculate and prepare the next battle i recieve a error (vb?). Another thing: After i followed the doc about clearing the zones in the map-editor and placing the units (no flags as suggested) things became weird at the final battle. My forces were south (so the enemy north) map 740 width / 1440 height (as the *.xls says so). However, at the battle my zone was west and the enemy's zone east. Very wrong i think. "fixed" this by editing the map again, placing the zones north and south and played 4 flags. Started the QB, loaded the map and bought the auxilary units and then things were oke. So maybe is automacicly calculating the zones by the computer not such a good idea afterall or i do something terribly wrong :eek:

Thanks for the explenation. Sorry to tell but know i am more confused then before Thought the 1.72 was a multiplier instead of a divider, and then you come up with a 1.6 divider or is it a multplier too. I know, i am hopeless :eek: Plz. stay with 1 version, i want to use the excel-sheets. Anyway, if i understand you right the total purchase points is more favorable for the enemy then it is to me. How does it work with the other two divider/multipliers :confused: Examples, plz. More examples ps: Tried the other guys campaign, seems more logic to follow the rules so maybe i skip BCR and go along the other campaigne. Not that i don't like BCR, but it's so tough to get "the picture". you loose fun easaly after 6 hours of trying to get things going, reading the rules, re-reading the rules, trying to understand it all and then after all that work done; hope you done it 90% correct.

Hi Scarhead. Just started a new 41' campaign, the jump off scenatio went fine but i am confused about the 2de battle. It's 3 days later (no immidiate assault), the first battle was a total victory with only 2 men loss of my core. I have a assault mission, so according to the rules (excel-sheet) i recieve 653p for the core, and diced 175inf/support/200 vehicle/250 armor and 95 art for the fight = 1373 points. Since it's a assualt i use the x 1.72 modifier, right ? That totals about 2300p so i use the 3000p . Sofar oke? Well, the struggle gets here; do i modify the each number seperatly, so i get 1.72 x 175 inf/sup, 1.72 x 200 vehicle etc.etc. or do i stick with the max numbers i diced ? If not, what is it then i should do with the extra points ? question 2: how do i edit the ammo and exp of the forces, dunno where to find it. Keep up the good work, it's lookin good ! ps: Noticed this, and following you reply the "official" example is thus wrong or outdated: A tank knocks out a pillbox (+1) causing 2 enemy casualties (+1) , but then gets knocked out itself (-1) and the crew are 'Rattled' (-1). Luckily they get Overall Exp. Gain of +1. Total Experience Gain for the crew: +1. since there are only 2 cas, no point is given as you say the minimum=5 Total exp gain= 0 , right? [ November 18, 2003, 02:07 AM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

thanks, rambo for the kind words. But i am actualy no longer interested in this game anymore. I am true gamer and as a true gamer i can't stand it when i cannot play. As it seems you have to beg for a opponent my interest is vaporised, kaput , finished Cherio, and have a good time

Don't post anymore. This Ladder is closed....