KNac

An other tiny bug is in the scenario briefing. It´s stupid but I will asy it anyway. In the scenario brefing it shows the size of this scenario as medium while in the Citadel scenario it says that is small, which of the two in wrong? Or am I wrong? (Citadel scenario seem big for me, maybe it isn´t very wide but is quite long, it seem bigger than the Smolensk scenario).

LOL!

ParaBellum at what range?!? It didn´t work for me anyway, at ranges of 80m in flanks and rear, it could be a bad day maybe However I say the same that other have said, it will work against the more common soviet tanks in 41. Did you know that the germans didn´t know a **** about T-34s and KV until the first time they saw them in combat? I wouldn´t spoil german engineers, but I would spoil german intelligence (if it existed).

Note that the scenarios in the demo are made to give an impression of some of the new features that CMBB. Try to play as German in the other scenario, it´s quite difficult too, playing against a decent human you will get a total lose for sure (PAK36 suck against those 6 T-34s), I managed to get a draw against the computer however. To sum up, the scenarios do not try to be even, just give you an impression of how the full game will be with the new features. Just my opinion.

However those drivers really give problems with a lot of games (is not only CMBB).

Frunze, it will be usefull in custom scenarios & maps. In the case of QB you depend in several things: the size of the map, the quantity of arty. However I thing that in CMBB we will have more realitic artillery. What means that it will be: -cheaper, wider barrages, in more quanity You will have to guest where your enemy will position his troops. With custom maps (in QBs) it will be easier. You can make somekind of fireplans too, so if you are good enought in the defense it can be quite usefull (if you guess routes of atack and times). An other thing you must realize is that it can be usefull to close routes of advance/atack, and force your enemy to move his units to other way. The possibilities are infinite

If you want to experience the feeling of real combat within it´s own problems (not all, like fear and all that, but yes C&C coordination, lack of intel or god view) I suggest to play a FPS sim (not MOHAA or RTCW or similars) in a multiplayer mode. For example OP FP. But specially I would suggest WWIIOL, that game has serius flavors, but is very interesting to try a coordinate atack/defense and such things, specially with large forces (30+ persons involved). There you can experience how difficult is too coordinate people. All the advances you have in comunications are easy leveled by the lack of training. Off course to do that you must be in a squad or something, if not is nearly imposible to be coordinated. Personally I think that it is the closer thing you can be in the indivual and tactical level to real life combat (in WWII at least). At operatioonal and trategic level is a very diffrent thing either (is where the game fails at the moment IMO).

cannot add anything more also i agree with tom, if you want a more realistic feeling of atacking try playing with green troops (specially with large battles of regimental+ size)

Someone can expline me WTF is that crap of peng challenge threads? Just curious It only seems nosense thread I have been on here for a while, one time entred on one of this threads and left because of the nosense (my poor english maybe helped a bit too). Please a short explanation of the history and objective of peng challenge threads. An other questions is why they are allowed to be in this forum (they should b in general forum) but that´s an other question.

Not of the whole WWII, but centered on the eastern front you have a wide serie of atlas and survey from C. David Glantz, here are some of them: -Atlas of the War on the Eastern Front, 1941-1945 -ATLAS OF THE BATTLE OF MOSCOW: The Defensive Phase (1 October-5 December 1941) -ATLAS OF THE BATTLE OF MOSCOW: The Soviet Offensive, 5 December 1941-20 April 1942 -ATLAS AND SURVEY: The Soviet Khar'kov Offensive, 12-29 May 1942 etc etc etc (you can find them here) An other interesting web page to find any WWII book: stone&stone [ August 27, 2002, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: KNac ]

Immer Etwas, I think equal as you. Sometimes I think we should get rid of politics and govern ourselves. I´m hopeless, because not all the people things in the same manner Just if I could govern the whole world

Interesting thread as others said. I will bring new discussion. IMO I think the EU is much united in many things than under the "Third Reich", maybe we are going to a Fourth Reich? Nah, Germany has more power than other countries but not that much. Off course talking about military actions is stupid, IMO. However talking aout future "what-ifs" is more interesting. Eventually I think the EU will become some kind of USE (United States of Europe). We must realize, that during thounsands years many European nations have pretended to unite Europe in a military manner, and its destiny it´s to be united (for it´s surviveality sake, it´s neccessary). What wasn´t made by force will be made by other ways, but it will take a long time (probably all us will be death when it will be done, but who knows). Off course UK will be excluded from the confederation, by it´s own deccission, and eventually will become an US state. Imagine that in the future there is a Cold War between USA and USE, UK will be the "Cuba" of USA Thre is a possibility that UK will continue unalignated too. And about future wars. Well I think that the next war will be between US, maybe EU included(Western Civilization) and Islamic countries. George W. "Asshole" Bush is inpatient of begining it. As a "Fourth Reich" citicen I hope our government decides to stick out. let them slughter alone (or let them US slaughter them alone ) they have enought power to do it w/o our help, let stick neutral, and once in History just "see" the film. To conclude, the only war than noone will win in the greatest war in human history "The War of Self-destruction" that began long time ago, and anyone can predice the end, humanity detroys it´s home and it´s own spice. Humans, what an strange animal. The final war

I must remember you that this is a demo, damnit is not the full game! It´s easy to understand, you have seen all the options and fuctions of the game for X game time play. It´s more than I would give you if it was my game. Sometimes folks are too much impatient. Be patient please and wait for the damnit full game [ July 27, 2002, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: KNac ]

It couldn´t be bombed to hell? If not, it must be scary and really big! Any photos of it? I´ve never seen any [ July 27, 2002, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: KNac ]

I forgot to say that in the TV documental I saw about nowadays situation in this subject (in Germany) said exactly what Ozzy said. It was really very well done. It pointed out that much of the reason was because ob economical situation (as usually, as happened in Germany in the 30s). I know it´s a bit off-topic but I saw yesterday a good film "American History X" that show us how bad are all the crap around the world. Should I ask, how is the situation in USA about all this, is as bas as the film pointed out (I mean in numbers of neonazis)? I specially don´t understand how the contry that fought against it have it in his heart now. Well, it´s all around the world and I suppose it will be for a long time

I will extend on my ideo of scripting. Here there would be two ways to go, with their own pros and con: -More code-like scripts (maybe made outside of the game? in ANSII) that would be interpreted by the game engine. There are lots of script-like languages but a simple code could be made for the game with few variables, identities and operator. The pros: it would consume less time to program it, because a lot would be designer work and not additional interface and tools would be needed to code into the engine. also more open scripting like this wouls allow in a much more possibilities and combinations. The cons: probably, because of its difficulty (even if it would be relative easy) and time to learn, it would be not used by a lot of designers, this would be real "modding" also we must add the incompatibility of script code would be very often, because of coding error, probably soemkind of debug tool should be done. -Graphical-made scripts, added to the scenario editor, and made with hardcoded into the engine tools. Con: not as wide in possibilities and combinations as the other (well this would depend in how deeep wants the programmer to go). also this would take much more time to do (time consuming). Pros: because it would be easy to use, via intarface tools (probably kinda like to the commands in-game like "move" "fast" etc) so it would be widely used for scenario designing. also the problem of script debug wouldn´t exist. In my opinion, the second method would be selected if it would happen, because it´s not the worth of doing something that will not be used later. An other option is to go the first way, and in posterior patches add the interface and in-game tools, but I dude it will happens because BTS do not want to release incomplete products. Elaborating a bit more about the options for scripting via in-game interface and scenario tools. Probably you should go to 3d view to do it. And you should have a sub-menu for units "Scripting" with th available actions. For reinforcements, you should be able to place them in the 3d map. Using a combination of keys like shift-1; shift-2... shift-0 to togle the visible units (original ---> shift-0, reinforcement 1 ---> shift-1, etc). Some of the options would be movement (in the diffrent variants: fast, move, sneak, etc) you should be able to assing the same order for a group of units, selecting them all, so placing from the start the units in formation could help. ploting movement paths should be available. other orther should be atack (in diffrent variants) and defend. for example atack with an agressivity percentage (or 3-4 options) that should point to the amount of loses before retreating, as well as a defend command, find cover (HD for tanks/vehicles). movement should include variables like frontage and deep. Also a few standar formation should be available (for each country) those should be hardcoded because one fo the first problem we find is, when a unit is following a path and must change direction, how it know where must it reposition it-self inside the formation (I hope I´ve explained my-self well Also an option when u run an scenario of "Scripts on/off" should be used, if on the game will chek if scripts exist for the scenario if it they do then it will be used. While running the game, each turn the engine will chek if scripts are available for a unit and if so it will read it and intereptate (mispelling?) it. this will allow scen designer to make a more "smarter" AI, it will screw up replayability, but u can always turn it off (remember "scripts on/off") an other problem is when the AI will stop using scripts and when will continue to do it. I mean when enter in action. How will anwer to ruted units? How will know if the formation is broken or no? As you see, even this way is difficult to do, I think the avility to make SOPs (and a few SOPs for the AI hardcoded) would be the way to go. More suggestions?

I dude you can recreate those thing into CMBB. The already said ability to add factories still being a lot of abstraction, and such special buildings do not exist with special rules to make them harder. GHow hard is to blow up a factory in CMBB? Can it be destroyed patially? However if it was so hard to blow up why they didn´t send the Luftwaffe? (just curious). I also remember soemthing similar. The first day of Barbarossa, near Oleszyke (or something like that) were existed a castle which was used as training school for NCO, defended by them and NVDK troops. it wasn´t imposible to capture it before the arrivel of a 600mm Karl mortar that shelled it, and others heavy artillery guns.

Thanks for all the info Ozzy. I must recognize that I overexagerated the question and I´m going to buy the game anyway, and more if it can be changed (but I sriusly dude that it will be possible to do), probably I had too much free time the day I posted that. However returning to the info Ozzy gave me. Well, I also hadn´t got into account that "l Transición" happened 27 year ago and Germany had it´s own "Transición" just a decade ago. I say this because before it happened radical right people (Falange and the rest of fascist) still existing in the streets, and even there was people with their blue t-shirts. So I think it´s normal. About the other type of racism, yes it exist, and I must recognize it, and it´s a part of the population not only extreme right people. But it exist mostly against Morocco and some african people, as you said (not in anyway towards any european country or America). Also that have it´s own social reason (should I say drugs & crime?). S! And thanks for the interview!

As other have said, scripting and predefined routines would be a a good way to go, off course this would be added to the alrrady code base. So its usage would be optional. This way SOPs could be scrited and atack routes and so. This wouldn´t be usefull for random generated battles (QB) but it would be ok for scenarios and operations. What do you think about it?

BeWary I think you misunderstood me I know my english is poor and it happens me a lot of times. So my apologies, it wasn´t my disire... I was refering more to the general public, and in any way I wanted to atack noone (personally or not), it was just an expression "you musn´t know a lot about computer to see that ..." (rephrasing) However returning to the original thread. Yep I tried that map against AI playing as germans, and I really saw the AI to act in a very stupid manner I think is one of the few scenarios I´ve seen the AI to be so passive, even that they atacked with the infantry passing the forest in the mountain in front of the town but they were rejected by my direct artillery fire assets easy. My 88 managed to destroy apair of tanks that were trying to flank the mountain and and before it was killed by enemy barrage my tanks managed to hold them in the other side of the river (first bridge). I played it long time ago so I don´t remember very well it, but that was what the AI did if I don´t remember very bad. Edited: I said BeWare insted of BeWary [ July 25, 2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: KNac ]

Not like Blenheim I will play it if it comes alife (I´m spanish too). IMHO it´s not a good point. Germans, americans or russians shouldn´t play CM (CMBO or CMBB) because they participated in the war? I encourage the people to play it (or whatever total conversion) and will help learning a bit of history. Off course are just my thoughts. PS: as the other I recommend to wait for CMBB as, a part of all the improvements, the game will be suited much better (because of available weaponry) to recreate the war, specially for the republican side (are you going to arm the republicans with Shermans? More likely with T-26. S!

No. Until it´s not announced that the game has reached GOLD status it will continue under development. Also as other stated in the multyple "SNEAK PREVIEW" threads the game continues under beta status. However someone could elaborate a bit about AT batteries communications? And how where used usually? Individually (using any HQ/staff unit more for logistics, supplies and transport and positioning) or in a team manner (adding to the said things in-action colaboration in assignament of targets, front coverage, etc).

Thanks for the info. As it seems there, the law is very hard about games in general, a part of all symboly etc. I really don´t know if it´s good or not. And will let that for an off-topic thread. However, what happened with Medal of Honor for example, just curious. Well finally I´m sure that historical nomenclature are permised for books because there are a lot of books written in Germany, and german language which have them. That´s were the question it´s up, why not CMBB? It´not a mass product (mostly used by adults) and even if the to be 18+? Edited: i didn´t sae redwolf post. Yes some kinf of info should be given. However each time I believe less in the legal thing, I don´t know hoe the hell a game like CMBB could pass any test. Some time ago the guys from WWIIOL (an other WWII game) announced that finally the game would be released in Germany 8and the rest of Europe). Some people especulated about the long waiting time, because of the legal thing in Germany. But finally there wasn´t any problem. Sure there is not any SS or nazi symbology, but thre is a lot of stuff about WWII and still existing the possibilitie it will be included. [ July 24, 2002, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: KNac ]

The AI. Probably one of the most challenger things in computer´s world is to program any kind of AI, along with that programming real physics and collision models, or complex 3d engines. I´m not a programmer (at least a pro programmer) but I´ve been in computer´s world for a bunch of years, I know a lot of things about it and even if I don´t know a lot about hardcore programming, I know a lot of other areas (some involved in the gaming world). I know that the 98-99% of the population just would get insane trying to code relative easy things. Hardcore programming requieres a mathematical knowledge that it´s not reachable for most of the population In a logical way, you should deduce how difficult is to "recreat" the human mind. You know that computer´s try to emulate human mind, something that even us (humans) don´t figure how runs, even for the most simple things. Just imagine. I LMAO when I read some stupid reviews saying that "the AI is poor" (should I say SC review in GameSpot?) Probably if they know... however I LMAO in all the crtiqs about all things, those guys should get a real job Now returning to the original question. You musn´t know a lot of programming to know that programming atack/agressive AI is much more difficult than defending AI. Just because the level of complexity and variables is much higher. Just counting "where should I move my troops?" increase the level of difficult a lot. As other have said I prefer the working more on other 100 features than in the AI which is a very fine time-comsumer For the future, IMHO they should contract an other programmer or as other said, contract the AI with other company.

One think is clear, banning or non-banning will not solve any problem in this question, and it´s there where we should learn for history (unfortunatly the human race it´s stupid by nature ) because the only way to stop this is by a good education (from family and the whole society). If that was the point there would be less neo-nazis than there are, because even with all the banning neo-nazism is raising in east germany (apologies if I´m wrong, but it´s the last I read, feel free to correct me). However here we haven´t got any banning of flags of the civil war or Franco´s dictorship, or for any extreme-right parties and the fenomenon it´s very very very low. Please note that I´m not blaming anyone here. However I think that the right decision based on economical situation will be choose (and for whatever we say). Anyway any German could elaborate a bit more on this question, how is the law there nowadays? It seems that as you say is permised for studies and investigations. It´s permised to publish a book with historical names and such but not games, is this true? For example "Castle Wolfstein" was published without any modification? I also ask myself if it depends on the age, for example a product that is for +18 will be treated diffrent to a product destinated to 13+ years old, no?