manchildstein (ii)

ok... this scenario was designed to be difficult SPOILER AAR: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . after it had looked as though all of the proverbial Ts were crossed and Is dotted, i ran this scenario on its "maiden run..." the 105mm FO fiasco had been resolved and the battle had evolved into an even more mobile affair and had lost even more of its 'set piece' atmosphere... anyway the best infantry approach is through the right center... there after the fairly open patch gives way to the 'orchards' and 'sunflowers' of the 'collective farm.' ... this covered approach would ostensibly take the infantry straight into the town at the base of the hill... so already my force was split... several tankettes ran ahead of the infantry and flushed out the farm enroute to the town... on the far right all toldis and csabas - and the remaining tankettes - ran up to and through the road, up the hill and turned, facing left from the far right corner of the map.... several tankettes were lost, but only a couple of the toldis... the csabas straggled and were still on the near side of the road... finally, the csabas also made their dash across the road... in the midst of all of this, soviet gun positions and bt tanks opened up at the armor on the hillside from all over the map... the toldis sought refuge in the scattered trees... meanwhile the infantry forced the center, coming upon a couple of soviet platoons at the far edge of the farm... after about 10 turns, the armor had 'turned' on the hillside and was facing fully to the left in a line in some scattered trees... several soviet guns had already been knocked out... the 47mm at guns had set up on the small hill on the near right and were peppering the soviets as best they could but scored few kills because of a lack of los... by this time there was a huge problem in the center... a kv152... it was smartly hiding from the AT guns... well the ones it hadn't destroyed... it had already taken one out... now it was in LOS of my advancing infantry in the farm, and was content to sit there with LOS to nothing but my infantry... on the hill i was getting sliced to ribbons so as the csabas approached the top (river cliff) they all formed a line and took off toward the manor... i knew it was probably suicide but had to try... about 7 toldis, 4 csabas and 2 tankettes made the dash... near the town there were 4 further tankettes and they dashed across the road to try and 'secure' some scattered trees behind the church in order to contest the 10 large flags bunched there... that was also the idea on the ridge... run the ridge in a 'near-far' line from left to right and get at least some vehicles into the cover of trees up there... contesting those other 10 large flags at the manor... the tank attack was beautiful... a complete failure yet a thing of beauty... some bts were stricken but within 2 turns all toldis, csabas, and tankettes on the ridge were knocked out... the infantry approaching the town decided all the while to close assault the kv152... they never made it... the kv's 152 and the surrounding soviet guns and mgs made mincemeat of the assault... meanwhile my own 81mm spotter had been dropping rounds into the town intersection... the 4 tankettes who had gone 'low' and crossed the road to behind the church were being knocked off 1 by 1 by soviet bts and guns... it seemed there was no refuge... after about 15 turns i did a cease-fire and lost 87-13... the kv-152 had 60 infantry kills... this and i had only 4 platoons for it to fire at... it also had a gun kill... so now i try again: this time with a center assault with all tanks under the cover of the farm and supported by the infantry... i think that the key here is to keep all vehicles in the same place at the same time... also the 47mm at guns are probably better off on the left hill instead of the right one... they have better los from there... there is more time in this scenario than i've given myself... i seem to end it by turn 20 and there are 30+ turns... so more caution might be warranted... there has to be a way to both a) inflict heavier casualties on the soviets than they themselves have inflicted and at least contest the two flag groups... or a) above plus bring one group of flags completely under hungarian control... well this scenario was supposed to be tough...

ok... it's at the scenario depot... thanks Keith... you rock! http://ns9.super-hosts.com/~dragonlair.net/combatmission/

for cmbo i had a celeron 400 with 128mb of ram and 10mb video (2mb plus monster ii add-on card)... one way to upgrade indexpensively is the k7sem board with built-in amd duron 1200 and onboard sis video... i threw 512mb of ram onto that and shared out 64mb of it to the video... all for about $180 - new case, new board, 256mb ram and new floppy... when running win98se there was something about setting minfilecache and maxfilecache in the system.ini (don't have it on hand right now) but with the 512mb total it does seem to handle cmbb well... it runs slightly faster on this machine than it did on the celeron... with the patching giving 25% shorter compile times it should really fly....

i would go the opposite direction... offer a 2-d interface OPTION with just the unit symbols and no movies but instead a GO! button which pumps out the results of the turn onto the 2d display...

dude i feel sorry for you... mine arrived... you'll get it... then it will be 'rock and roll!' if you're a scenario design dude you could spend the interim looking for scenario design information... that's what i did... studied up on the hungarians and such... at www.freeport-tech.com/WWII or somesuch... there's a huge site of OOBs... just trying to help... i didn't know what else to do so i studied the war while i waited...

ok... i had to make some changes for the kind of battle i was attempting to do... it had to do with telephone versus radio FOs... here is the new briefing: On the Dniepr Designed to be played as Hungarian against the AI Use Default Computer Setup Semi-Historical Hungarian Attack Aug 1941 Hot, Still, Dry Ground, Mid-day Large: About 2300 Hungarian versus 2800 Soviet on a 2k x 2k Map 30+ Turns Scenario Version 1.1 CMBB Version 1.0 Outside of Nikolaev the remnants of the 2nd Hungarian Motorized Brigade's Recon (2nd Armored) Battalion has been tasked with taking the high ground at a place where the Dniepr bends. This hilltop with its "Manor" is one of the few pieces of high ground so seizing it in good time will allow your Axis main forces to set up artillery observation posts with far-reaching LOS. The main body of your trucks (whatever ones remaining operable at this time) have - in conjunction with your light tanks - debarked your Infantry Company, Pioneer Platoon, Battalion Commander and support units (Light Mortars, ATRs, and AT Platoon). Your trucks have already returned to a place behind the main lines. Your towed and passenger units are just now completing the process of forming up for the imminent assault. Your Battalion Commander has scoped out a couple of small hills on the approaches to Nikolinaev (the town at the foot of the hilltop) and what remains of your Battalion AT has a couple of options as to where to deploy in order to provide decent covering fire for the attack. There are vehicle sounds in the distance so you can expect resistance. In approaching these jump-off points you have spotted several BT tanks. In your initial setup for this battle your units are more-or-less out of harm's way at the moment. It is important that you take this hill - no matter what the cost - quickly before the Soviets have a chance to reinforce it. Yours are the only immediately available units. The haste of the attack precludes the laying of wire needed by your 105mm FOs, and those guns are not currently available for front-line, direct fire duty. The Brigade AA Companies (Heavy MG and 40mm Bofors) are also occupied so your main supporting fire will be the Battalion's organic 47mm AT Guns. You're facing units of the vaunted Soviet 9th Army. You're going to need to close fast in order for the 20mm guns on the Toldi Tanks and Csaba Armored Cars to have any effect - even against the thin armor of what are ostensibly BT tanks. The big question is as to just what kind of units the Soviets have amassed here in support of their armor. It is tough to tell just what might lurk in the patches of scattered trees here where the collective farms - orchards and sunflower fields - with their squat, cookie cutter houses contrast with both the peasant shacks around and about and the old manor overlooking the river, stark reminders of Czarist times and the latter probably now inhabited by functionaries of the party. Your infantry - now on foot - is going to have to find a way to storm the town. It is currently assembled at or near what is probably the most covered approach; through the main collective orchard on the near right. Just remember. Your own (2nd) Recon Battalion is one of the only (2) "spearheads" of this type available to the "Hungarian Mobile Corps" in 1941. Aftermath: In the actual campaign, the Hungarian Mobile Corps fought along the Dniepr, and took Nikolaev (not to be confused with the "village of Nikolinaev" in this scenario) from the West while the German 16th Panzer Division stormed in from the East. However, in that battle most of the Soviet 9th Army did escape desruction. "The (Hungarian Mobile) Corps finally got its well-deserved rest after the capture of Nikolaev as it was placed in reserve at Krivoi Rog from 24 August. This only lasted a week or so as the Corps was to defend a 200 km (120 mile) stretch of the Dnepr River from Dnepropetrovsk to Nikopol while the 1st and 2nd Panzer Groups encricled the Soviet Southwestern Front behind Kiev. The most dangerous part of this sector was the island opposite Zaporozhe." As the fighting wore into Autumn the Corps was fairly well shot. By something like Nov 1941 the Hungarian Mobile Corps had lost all of its MG Tankettes, 80% of its Toldi Tanks and 90% of its Csaba Armored Cars. Here are some websites you can go to if you want to look into this Campaign: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/hung_tw.html http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/015_hungary/41_org/brig_mot_41.html http://www.hungary.com/corvinus/lib/thou/thou14.htm Scenario Order of Battle: 1941 Hungarian Recon Battalion at 70% manpower, and minus 2 47mm AT Guns. 1 Battalion HQ /w 81mm FO 1 Company Infantry 1 Platoon Pioneers 2 "50" mm Mortar 3 ATR 15 Toldi (20mm) 8 Csaba (20mm; "6 remaining" from the original Battalion Armored Car Company and 2 Battalion Commander vehicles) 12 Tankettes (MG) The Hungarian Mobile Corps was reputed to have had the best soldiers of that nationality. That is why the units here are all rated "Veteran" and above. Notes: 1) After a discussion about how the Germans and Axis Minors used telephones a lot more than wire during the war, the 105mm FOs were removed from the original scenario design. This is supposed to be more of an impromptu attack and not something for which there were hours to prepare. Thus the force sizes for the both sides in the battle have been reduced. 2) There used to be some trucks and an AA Company. Those have been removed as well. 3) The "Dniepr" should run more N/S than E/W as it does in this scenario. That was a mistake in the making of the map. So rather than re-do the entire map the water tiles instead represent a "Dniepr Bend" - not "The Dniepr Bend" mind you but "a bend." This is represented by the labels on the mapboard where on the "left" there are \_ symbols and on the "right" -\ . i will upload to scenario depot at the first chance...

(delete) [ October 28, 2002, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: manchildstein II ]

Radio FOs have the word "radio" in parentheses after the type of weapon. Like this: "Howizter spotter 203mm (radio)". If it doesn't say radio, then it's wire. It could easily be that the Hungarians don't have any radio FOs. After all, wire remained the principle means of arty communications for both the Germans and the Russians throughout the whole war. But I'm not familiar with the Hungarian OOB so can't say for sure.</font>

Why would you assume that a mech unit has no infrastructure... like having batteries of arty towed to the front, communication being established with their organic HQ's, engineers to string wires communication experts to assign radio frequencies, etc. all well before the first shot is fired (hopefully) and then when the action moves, everything gets locaed onto trcks/railcars, etc. and gets done again somewhere else?</font>

uh... why would it be assumed that a forward observer in a mech unit would always have wire and not radio? especially when the FOs were purchased under the 'mechanized unit' type... thanks for the info

(outdated briefing deleted) see posts below for info [ October 28, 2002, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: manchildstein II ]

is this broken? i can't seem to get my hungarian fos into trucks... is it because maybe they're using wire instead of radio? if so, how do i change this in the editor? is it in the patch? thanks

hi, i just received the game and am wondering if there are no soviet field guns over 76.2mm available for direct fire? i had heard that the soviets enjoyed using artillery pieces in direct fire. is the above not true or were the graphics for the 122mm and 152mm simply not produced for the game? i'm going to miss large caliber stuff in a direct fire role. At least, as it is it's easy to whip up a veritable hornet's nest of 76.2mm... rock 'n' roll!

kewl... gets me 'stoked' for hungarian scenario design...

from what i hear the 'strategic' ai hasn't changed from cmbo to cmbb... it was always terrible on the attack. are there any victory flags or is it an exit scenario? i know that the ai is particularly inept at attacking in exit scenarios... it seems if there were flags at least the ai would make some effort... unless of course it already controls some flags... in which case it might just sit there... so yes the ai needs some work on the attack so in the meantime i would recommend - germans or not - that you play as the attacker... one thing you could do if you don't pbem or tcpip would be to play 'hotseat' with yourself and just give the soviets some rudimentary group moves, then concentrate on the german side...

can we have a little hut here and there with lile marlene playing inside?...

ok... thanks... i'm hoping my copy of cmbb will arrive soon... am looking to recreate one of the recon batallions... something like 50 or 60 vehicles, motorized infantry company, some 105mm FO support (and maybe engineers and motorized AA) in to&e from what i've seen on the web... then project forward a bit and 'impute' some losses... should be a good medium-sized scenario on the 'approaches to the dniepr' in what... sep '41?... i don't have the printouts handy... lost all of my links... but had found a couple describing the formation and the fighting, and that other one with the organizational outline... again... lost links... was a site with organizations for many units of many armies in ww2... top pages were green background with silver/grey buttons...

hi, are there toldi tanks and 20mm armored cars? i'm looking to design a 1941 scenario about a recon battalion... i imagine the italian tankettes are in there but what about these others? thanks andy

more human than human? gdr

this site is interesting: http://www.swastika.com

rock 'n' roll!

http://www.shortway.to/1941/index.htm it might not go into detail but appears to have some interesting maps... the info might be useful for semi-historical scenarios... may give the scenario designer an idea about times, locations, and units involved... i have a question... what's the "SS AH Division" as found in the (5th?) map for the "Tiraspol'-Melitopol' defensive operation. July 27 - September 28." here is the page for the operation: http://www.shortway.to/1941/etirasp.htm and the sub-map: http://www.shortway.to/1941/melit.gif notice how on the bottom of the map there is "ss ah division" and at the top there is "1 SS br"... can anyone clarify?... maybe it was units from liebstandarte... but split so as to be in two place at once?... anyway... the overall sight looks like a good resource for some general semi-historical scenario ideas... i can't wait to represent huns, romanians, and italians in various scenarios... not to mention LAS

in the actual battles i'll bet there rarely if ever the exact number of halftracks as called for on paper... so on the one hand maybe the halftrakcs need to be tweaked by bts so they can carry the entire, on-paper platoon; heavy weapons and all... on the other hand you could design the scenarios without an historical to&e... you could go so far as to cut even more halftracks out of the mix and have some ground units riding on tanks... as it is if you design a scenario with the exact, on-paper units and plop them into an 'historical' battle somewhere, some grog is going to look at that and go, 'hmmm... i'll bet they weren't really at full strength... what's this all about?'

what about frampton comes alive?