Erwin

Good point. Unlike CM1 where one minute seems about right, the smaller scale of CM2 means that your guys can get in a whole lot more trouble and be massacred in one minute's bad orders. It makes CM2 much more "sensitive" and less forgiving of errors. Ironically, I find that CM2 is good training for, and improved my CM1 play!

Bunkers are not a problem if one has LOS and range to use a heavy round or Javelin type missile. However, the designer of Mud Marines was clever and placed bunkers in locations where one only has LOS from 10-20m away. Thus one has to use infantry weapons. I am amazed/shocked that it appears that this challenge hasn't been discussed or playtested in the years that CMSF has been available.

My theory is that they have been modeled rather ineffectively in that they seem to get spotted and die just as easily as regular inf. Also, you can't resupply them. You would think they would be able to move more stealthily. I have been asking your question for years. The only response seems to be "put em in a place with good field of fire and just let them get on with it. They are supposedly good at taking out support teams. I wonder if they have been downgraded in effectiveness as the military seems to not like them and didn't want them to be seen as an uberweapon - taking out targets at 800m-2Km. Perhaps snipers should be elite at all times?

Win 7. With UAC enabled, files will typically be written to the 'Virtualstore' directory located at: '\Users\{your account name}\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Battlefront\Combat Mission Shock Force\Game Files\Saved Games' Thanks... Yes, that is where the savegame files are being saved. However, my regular saves are in C:/program files (x86)/battlefront/combat mission Shock Force Hmmm... I think what happened is that I installed to a different location than default and then copied over the saved game files from my old computer. I guess I can solve the problem by copying all my saved games to the new folder that the game wants to save to... PS: Is there any hints/help re KO-ing bunkers? I left a few messages in the other areas about the problem when one only can use squad carried weapons and can't use weapons like Javelins or big tank guns. In this case, bunkers seem almost invulnerable and can only be hurt by suicidal frontal attacks that use a lot of ammo and game-losing friendly casualties..

The uk mod gamefiles save to a different folder so I can't see them when I try to load a saved game. I had to search to find em and manually copy them to the correct folder. How to have game save files to correct folder? Thanks...

Yes, yes and yes.... UK Mud Marines, is so far the best CM2 UK scenario I have played, and one of the best CM2 scenarios period. Up to my problem with the steep slope and bunkers, I thought it very winnable by the Brits (I didn't even know there was a USMC version). Yes, the bunkers can be KO'd, but the crews live. My concern re the bunkers is whether the live crews in KO'd bunkers stop the UK from getting points for that victory location. I guess I should try a cease fire and see. The bunkers seem impervious to fire from their rear. I killed the bunker and crew on the UK's extreme right flank as I was able to fire from a distance and squad missiles (LASM's) could fire. But, the other two can only be targeted at close range, hence missiles are useless. But grenades and small fire are inadequate. One can hurt the crew by firing through the bunkers' frontal arc. But that uses huge amounts of ammo and leads to unacceptable UK casualties. Not practicable. The engineers didn't seem to use their charges spontaneously, but I can retest that. You can NOT target a bunker with BLAST command. Ok, I went back and in suicide attacked and KO'd the bunkers. So, I have 2 KO'd bunkers but with crews, one abandoned bunker, and one completely empty KO'd bunker. When I cease fired however, I still have not won that victory location. So, from a fun POV the scenario is still great if one simply puts up with the fact that it is not worth the cost in men or ammo to KO the bunkers AND crews, May as well smoke em, go around their rear and carry on with the mission leaving the bunkers intact. I hope I am doing something wrong, and someone here can instruct us on proper technique for bunker busting. Otherwise, bunkers don't seem to be realistically modeled.

"UK Mud Marines? is there a UK version of this scenario? Reason I ask is because I didn't have much trouble KOing the bunkers at all. I'd be willing to bet your seeing what I described in the opening post. The bunker does in fact get KOed, it's just that the occupants stay inside and become impossible to kill. At least until they decide to make a run for it. I'm convinced this is a unintentional side effect from having a bunker in heavy woods that gets KOed and surrounded by the enemy. With the few fanatical troops inside that don't surrender and don't move. Other than that, this scenario was great, had fun playing it. The Red arty is a major bitch to work through. Nicely made map too." Yes, yes, and yes. In UK Mud Marines, the problem is that one can KO the bunkers with squad weapons but the crews stay alive inside. One can kill the crews using frontal fire. I did that with the extreme right-most bunker as one can fire at it at range so the squad rockets can be used. But, the other two bunkers can only be targeted at close range, so missiles seem not to get used, only grenades. In addition, there seems to be no effect in targeting from the rear. So, you have to target through the bunkers' front arc. At close range this led to horrible casualties. I will replay and get engineers close in and see if they use their demo charges on their own initiative (the bunkers can NOT be targeted for BLAST). Disappointing that the game seems to not be working well re bunkers.

FYI: Re KO-ing the bunkers, I experimented with moving lots of inf in front the of the bunker and firing point blank. That caused a few casualties in the bunkers, but horrible friendly losses. So, that isn't the solution. Other than trying to find a range to use Javelins on the bunkers, they seem almost indestructible. Grenades and squad rockets don't seem to be powerful enuff to have effect. PS: I have been saving the game at this point and replaying a dozen times, so if anyone at BF wants to see...? The sad part is after many hours enjoying UK Mud Marines, I feel that it's too flawed. You do what seems logical, you think you're doing everything right re checking mobility issues on slopes/cliffs, as well as using squad rockets and position engineers with satchel charges next to bunkers and you don't get the desired result. The designer must have played this through. Am disappointed that nobody here seems to have played this scenario.

"i think the cursor only becomes unclickable for vehicles" You're saying that inf can plot moves anywhere, even if impossible? It's almost like I need to ask in tech support, altho' it's not quite that... Re KO-ing the bunkers, I experimented with moving lots of inf in front the of the bunker and firing point blank. That caused a few casualties in the bunkers, but horrible friendly losses. So, that isn't the solution. Other than trying to find a range to use Javelins on the bunkers, they seem almost indestructible. Grenades and squad rockets don't seem to be powerful to have effect.

Re any cliffs that may be impassable, I always run the cursor all over the place to check re mobility. In this case (UK Mud Marines RHS entrenched objective on hill), at NO time did the cursor indicate that my inf would have a problem moving up the steep slope. But, when ordered to assault, they all ran around the side of the hill to use the obvious easy slope - which of course got them decimated. I note that there is a bunker guarding the enemy left flank (right UK flank), would would be entirely useless if the slope in that area was supposed to be impassable. So, it's as if the designed expected one to be able to attempt to attack up the slope there. Are you saying that this could be a bug? Would be very surprised that no one else has noticed. Similarly with the bunkers on that hill... I was able to kill the bunker on the far right UK flank (the one mentioned above facing the "water") by massive frontal inf fire. However, once I had gained the hill and moved to the side and rear of the other two bunkers, I found that the bunkers can be KO'd, but enemy crews inside can still be alive(!) Can the bunkers be KO'd AND the enemy troops inside killed by attacking from the side or rear? Or, does one have to shoot em from the front with rockets, grenades etc? Am sure that I was NOT able to use the BLAST command on any bunkers. I guess they are not "buildings or walls" per CMSF system. (And yes, I know that Javelins will kill em easily, but in this case it's too close range for the Javelins to work.) Mud marines is a great scenario, so I was hoping that many other players have already experienced and solved these issues...

Am having same problem with the Mud Marines bunkers. I took one out by massive conventional fire from the front. But, I got into the rear of two others thinking they would succumb easily, but even when KO'd, I can't kill the crews inside. Was there any hints re this someplace?

As an update here in June 2010, I believe that the Brits are probably going to be pulling out of Afghanistan (as soon as politically possible) due to the very high casualties they have been recently suffering - esp with the engineers vs IED's for which they appear to be scandalously ill-equipped. Just got back from the UK, and it seems like casualties almost every day, and more than the Brits can absorb imo.

Am enjoying UK Mud Marines scenario, but despite having engineers and inf with LASM's to the rear of bunkers, I can't figure out how to destroy them (without Javelins). Also, was frustrated that the system indicated that infantry could move up and across the steep slope/cliffs on the RHS of the map, but when ordered to do so, they ran around the front to use the slope (and got cut to pieces natch). How come the cursor doesn't change to "impassable" when moving it across this terrain?

The pic of the town square looks horribly like "Company of Heroes" and their type. I hope we'll see things dirtied up, weathered and worn too. Or, is that going to be up to the mod volunteers? Problem is that there are far fewer mods for the CMSF series than for CM1, so I assume mods are a lot harder in CM2(?)

The pictures are GREAT! However, we've seen LOTS of great-looking games that had gameplay that sucked. So, for THIS audience, I plead that you guys focus on GAMEPLAY and the aspects that made CM1 the best game of its type to date, and CM2 a extremely good game and the best of the modern genre.

I will double check this, but I don't recall having the option between bail-out or dismount in the game I just played with Jackals re the 12.7mm MG's (L111's?).

Thanks for doing all this work guys... Not sure if this is the right thread, but my (not terribly scientific) experience with arty (repeated uses of various arty "formulae" in a saved scenario vs inf in urban area was that: 1) MLRS is not that effective vs units in built up/urban areas. 2) 120mm Mortars seemed more effective that 122mm guns/hows. 3) For max casualties/suppression for same number of shells, better to use one tube for a longer time than several tubes for a shorter time. Also, it seems to be not cost effective to use arty vs a single vehicle if there is any other way to kill the armor (ie it's an act of desperation). (Medium or longer duration to kill one AFV is poor use of resources imo.)

Thanks for the useful charts! (PS: battalion has two "t's" and one "l.")

Useful charts. Would be nice to see those in the CMSF manual for design your own... like miniatures game manuals do.

Helpful. Thanks... I encountered the same problem with the Brit MMG's and Mech Grenade launchers on their wheeled TUMS. One has to dismount them and they carry the 7.62 MG or Grenade Launcher with them. And this way you can even resupply from the Brit Landrover that seems to have a lot of ammo! Can't seem to dismount the 12.7mm HMG's (or any mounted weapon from the Jackals) for some reason. Strange inconsistency seems par for the game.

Am loving Road to Dinas Campaign btw PT. Thanks for all your work.

Thanks for the heads-up. I tried to run three .btb scenarios but they all crashed the game to desktop. I wonder if they're incompatible with the latest patch.

I see I have a bunch of scenarios with the .btb suffix, but the game can't load them and usually crashes doing so. Renaming them to .btt doesn't seem to work. Can these .btb scenarios be played, or should I just delete em?

Finally got CMSF running. The culprit seems to be ZoneAlarm Toolbar. This needs to be uninstalled via CONTROL PANEL - PROGRAMS AND FEATURES before installing CMSF. To be safe, the best thing may be to ALSO shut down ZA completely before attempting to install. I did the above, uninstalled and unlicensed and then reinstalled and relicensed base game plus both modules and 1.21 patch and game runs fine. I started ZA again and game still runs fine. So, don't install ZAToolbar.

I want to try installing without ZoneAlarm or AVG running - in case they are what is causing the problems. But, first I have to be able to "unlicense" my game from the computer. It seems crazy that I cannot unlicense CMSF. Is there a way to do this manually or from your location online?