Stacheldraht

Could someone please tell me where to find the rules about orders for ski troops in the US version manual (movement, hiding, when they take skis off, etc.)? Since there's no proper index in the manual, I can't find that info Thanks.

Speaking of magazines, the latest Computer Games magazine named CMBB the Best Independent Game of 2002 in their March awards issue.

If you want to buy games, go to gogamer.com or eBay (just make sure the copies there are legit!). CompUSA is usually not a wise choice as far as price, selection, and availability are concerned, in my experience.

Thanks for the heads-up, Terrapin. Went and put in my votes for CMBB.

Don't forget to tell him about "neighbor" and "weigh"

Happily voted for CMBB in both categories.

Bumped for those who might have missed it.

I noticed that GameSpy.com is conducting a fan poll for games of the year in different categories and on different systems. CMBB is a choice for PC strategy game of the year and overall PC game of the year, so now's a chance to let your voice (or vote, at least) be heard.

Uh oh, all the grogs have been playing the wrong game all this time

When someone receives this book, could he please fill us in on its contents and quality? There are already lots of free full-length articles and lengthy posts about CM tactics in the Tips & Tricks forum here and on various fan sites.

The problem is that most people are horribly ignorant of that wonderful part of our Western cultural heritage. They're missing out on so much.

Ah, the imagination reels. You just had to go and get me distracted all day

I didn't say it doesn't conform to historical reality. I wasn't in WWII, nor am I a qualified expert on this particular subject of combat psychology/infantry behavior in WWII. I've heard some of the same points about combat stress described in this thread in various documentaries and books, though, which leads me to wonder about how it's modeled in CM. I'm asking a) how accurate is the modeling? and what specific scientific research has BTS relied on to recreate the historical realities of troop behavior in WWII insofar as they are documented and understood? The material in the first post of this thread (and some of the source material alluded to throughought this thread) leads me to wonder how accurate the modelling in the game is and how it might be improved upon.

I've long found it interesting that the CM games are apparently extensively researched in terms of the OOB, armor penetration values, etc., but what sort of research did BTS do into the sorts of vital issues being discussed in this thread? Have they ever listed any sources or data? Have they discussed how they went about interpreting it? That could be quite illuminating. If CM is supposed to be the pinnacle of realism in the field of WWII tactical combat simulation, then you have to wonder how much BTS is relying on expert evidence and interpretations in the realm of combat psychology. Before I see a tank's side turret armor angle correct, I'd rather see the infantry of the game acting in accordance with historical reality--insofar as one can ever implement programmed rules about human behavior and derive a realistic simulation. [ November 05, 2002, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ]

Congrats! Further proof that an intelligent game can and does appeal to the masses. It's not just a niche game, nor does it deserve to be.

This probably isn't the answer you want to hear, but a new monitor might make all the difference. I used to always have to crank the gamma/brightness of my vid card and/or game settings way up to see things clearly. When I bought a new, higher-quality monitor, everything was vastly brighter at the default settings. No more fiddling with gamma settings or ending up with an ugly, washed-out looking screen. Since the monitor is the main way you interact with your computer, buy the best one you can. You won't regret it.

Don't forget to post your own review score there: http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/0,11114,522049,00.html (On the right side of the screen, scroll down a bit.) [ November 03, 2002, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ]

Fwiw, I find I enjoy CMBB even more than CMBO, if that's possible Yes, the modeling of fatigue and panic might well need some tweaking, but I generally see avoiding the associated tactical problems as new--and fun--challenges to overcome. Frankly, that's a downright silly expectation. I've been an ardent CM fan for a couple years now, and I also think Medal of Honor: Allied Assault was one of the best PC games released this year. Many gamers (myself and all the gamers I know, as well as many others I've observed in forums like this one) regularly play all sorts of games on different platforms. It's patently incorrect to assume that all, or even most, gamers only like one sort of game. You can just as easily enjoy a hardcore wargame like CMBB as a Hollywood-style shooter like MOH--or some cartoony GBA platformer, for that matter. Not every gamer is monomaniacal, thank goodness. The ones that are--well, that's their prerogative, of course, but they sure are missing a lot of great games because of their provincialism. Unlike you, most people I know who've been turned off by CM have been turned off not because of the inclusion of German troops, but because the games are too (seemingly) complex and confusing and/or look dated and even amateurish compared to most professional games (that's particularly true of unmodded CMBO, less so of CMBB). Then again, your profile says you live in France, and I'd think the wounds of WWII would tend to run rather deeper there than in America, and I would imagine that anti-German sentiment probably runs a lot higher there, understandably. As for people assuming grogs/wargamers/WWII buffs are Nazis, that's just silly on the face of it. However, it's no secret that among those communities "Wehrmacht penis envy" is a relatively common malady. Fascination with and/or adulation of the Wehrmacht (or more to the point, the Waffen SS) can indeed be more than a little creepy. The Wehrmacht, after all, (whatever the beliefs of its individual memebers) was one of the chief instruments of the Nazi party's destructive policies that ruined or simply snuffed out so many lives.

Unfortunately, the very weak operational AI of CMBO remains in CMBB. It more or less just sends all its units in a big jumble right towards the major flags. I doesn't maneuver or coordinate units intelligently, be they infantry or armor (armor in particular), doesn't take decent (any?) advantage of overwatch/supporting fire, makes units casually walk towards the flags instead of running when getting there first could provide a big advantage, etc. Hopefully the next CM will put more emphasis on the AI. [ October 31, 2002, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ]

Comic books? What about the original stories by Robert E. Howard?

From p. 216 of the US version manual: "Good magnification allows for better spotting and gunfire accuracy at long range, except in low-light conditions where the greater need for light of high-magnification optics becomes a hindrance, reducing their effectiveness relative to [a] lower-power lens." [ October 31, 2002, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ]

For a really good laugh, compare the discourse level of this thread to your average thread on the Counter-Strike forums You gotta love it here!

Point taken, but I'd highly recommend basing your argument on hard data about the vehicle and its weapon system, not your (patently incorrect, alas) suppositions. Your post will get more mileage that way and perhaps make a useful contribution to the game. BTS seems open to correction when people can provide them with accurate data that contradicts something in the game.

Sure, just wait for them all to casually walk in a big crowd towards the biggest victory flags while their tanks aimlessly ride around in circles Seriously, the strategic/operational-level AI is still generally weak in CMBB, particularly against experienced players, and particularly on the offensive (meeting engagements, probes, attacks, assaults). It's often pitiful in user-generated quick battles--a CMBO vet should be able to inflict ten times as many casualties as received in nearly any balanced game--i.e., one without a huge force size bonus for the AI enemy. The AI still more than holds its own against newbies, where it's a great way to have fun learning the game. The tactical AI generally seems to be even better than before (i.e., the AI determines how units react during each action phase to current circumstances--when to hit the dirt or continue moving, deciding which target to fire at with what ammo, etc.) Overall, the game looks like a heavily modded version of CMBO with some cool added effects like muzzle recoil and big smoke puffs as heavy guns fire. In other words, CMBB looks decent overall--great for a wargame, but bland and dated, frankly, compared to most professional 3D strategy games (or 3D games of any type, really). The sounds are even more realistic and immersive than in CMBO. The subject matter of CMBB is both more expansive and more limited. It's more limited in that it's just the Germans versus the Soviets with a few relatively minor allies (no flames from our Finnish friends, please ). It's more expansive in that it's the Germans versus the Soviets from June '41 to the end of the war in Europe across a gigantic geographical area--that's a vastly bigger temporal and spatial scale than CMBO. You get a massively larger number of units in CMBB, which can be hard for noobs to get a handle on, but great for WWII buffs to experiment and have fun with. Overall, CMBB is bigger and even better than CMBO, as long as you don't mind a somewhat steeper learning curve because of the new orders, huge number of new units, and so forth. You'll also need to adjust the way you play to account for the increased effectiveness of machine guns, the changes to artillery spotting, and all the other minor and not-so-minor differences from CMBO's gameplay. For WWII buffs/grogs/wargamers/CMBO fans, I imagine that all these differences and extra challenges just add up to more fun. I know they do for me. In a nutshell: great game, buy it! PS Hell yes, it deserves better than a 6.8. Like any game, it's not for everyone, but if you're into WWII or wargames, CMBB is top notch overall. [ October 27, 2002, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ]

Amazon.com, among others. Don't forget to check Amazon.de for German-language books on the war, btw. They ship worldwide.