Biltong

Sound good... Sounds Good...

I was joking about 41 off course, but you're right - it should be very easy to adapt. That was the plan from the start. All that will change in 97% of the rules will be the modifiers and the composition of the Battle Group. Most of the parameters will stay as is. So far we're planning on bringing in 2 special Battle Packs: Sevastopol and Stalingrad, but the effect on your code would be negligible. (mostly done via Map Packs with some special rules in the Addendums) - see what we're planning for Kiev in the update doc I sent you. At the same time I must warn you... the players keep on pushing for changes and the rules do tend to change a lot. Hence the 7 versions we've had so far. Eventually I had to freeze all further changes to enable me to finalize 41 before the first players reach 42. So you might find that it will be an ongoing process, with changes to your code every month or so.

Wow!! Why you're about it, won't you 'code' 42 South for me Seriously - I'm sending you the 'Gold' version v2.0 due for release quite soon, so that you won't have to redo code. Couple of changes since the last version (v1.7)

I had a look at the maps - they're too small for our purposes (all medium or smaller). To cater for all Battle Types and Map Sizes we start off with a Large/Huge map and cut it down to Large/Medium and Small, changing the objectives and even some of the terrain along the way... One thing most designers won't like: that someone adds on to their maps - so I'm not even going to ask. We'll do it ourselves. It's a great battle and there's lots of visual and map material at hand so it should be fun to do in any case... Hope to give a hand myself. 15 Days/battles x 4 Map Sizes x 6 Battle Types = 360 maps!! No problem [ February 01, 2003, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

Hi Guys Peter Molloy, latest BCR Team member in charge of special maps send me this mail. Some of you might find it interesting… > i was thinking about stalingrad, how are we going to fit it in ? … > also when we get into stalingrad itself how are we going to model it as the player will more than likely lose all their > troops there. i was thinking we could try a few things > > 1. the player looses all their troops and only the CO got out and a handful of others as they were wounded and got > transport planes out. (i read the stallingrad book by anthony beevor so i remember some of the stuff) > 2. we could say that they were part of the attempted relief effort that failed and set it up so that they were taken out of > stalingrad b 4 it was encircled. > 3. finally we could create a number or special maps or have some features that allow the player to try and fight his way > out and back to german lines as i know some but very few did this. I like 3!!! Like it a lot - lot's of tension there: Maybe bring in a prize: If the CO makes it out he is considered Crack and gets a Veteran company as replacements... This should keep the players hopes up for 43. Maybe make this 15 battles spread out over Nov and December with the miraculous escape on the 31st Dec 42 > Lastly we could make up rules which decide the players course of action on 1 of the above paths depeding on the > amount of favour they had somewhere in the hundreds or thousands. If they have a lot they can be evacuated and > trade in favour, or they could be allowed R&R by trading in favour jsut b 4 stalingrad was encirculed and therefore be > part of the relief effort. Or they could choose to stay and be forced to fight their way out or lose all their men including > the CO if they fail to get out. I think they must stay and fight!! No cowards allowed in BCR But!! What about Mansteins attack on Sevastopol a bit earlier? That Maxim Gorky Fort seems just too good to give a miss (+ 24 x Nebelwerfer batteries + 600 planes!) Maybe just 5 or 6 battles spread out between (June 7 and July 9)... Terrain and fort definitely interesting. 2 large city battles in one year… Let me know what you think - we've got quite a bit of time and I should be a able to help you with those. > > Just a few thoughts > > Also we could try and highlight some major events of early 42 and try and work them into the campaign besides > stalingrad and have favour decide if they are to take part or not etc. that way it will make favour more important. > > Another thing we could do is create a few battles besides to normal ones where players can gain a huge amount of > favour by undertaking a really dangerous mission and make it so that the player can only do this 1 or 2 times every > couple of months. > > > how many people are using the campaign do u estimate ? Not the faintest idea - before they got posted on the websites roughly 120 guys asked me to send them the first batch of rules... how many are still around is any-ones guess. Not everyone's cup of tea. Hopefully the launch of the Gold version combined with the Players Guide will spark some more interest. BTW - I'm going to post this discussion - some of the guys will more than likely have some input re what to do with the battles and which ones they would like to see in 42.

Hey guys, Please put "Spoiler" alerts in when discussing force compo's in a scenario. Biltong

No, but thanx for reminding me I've just finished 41 South's (Gold?) rules. Still got to do: Battle Group, Favor and Parameter sheet adjustments. Adjust the Player Guide and revise it one more time. Redo the post-intro for the 'gold' launch. Go through all other docs that might have references to the rule numbering system which have changed a bit. Prepare the update doc and sent the rules to the team for revision. That's it (I think) Launch 41 Gold and THEN I can start on 42. One you reach 30 December (and if you're still alive mail me and I'll send you provisional change-over instructions. The Race is ON!!! :cool: Anyone else closer than that? [ January 28, 2003, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

I wasn't making an announcement for BCR, I just wanted to share this great feature I just found out about. Someone said it in some thread and I thought "What?! Why haven't anyone told me?!". I didn't mean that it should go into BCR (well, it should ), I just wanted those who use or is thinking of using the SE to know about it. So, I'll have my champagne right now. I can't wait! Wait minute, city battles are horrible! Short range, soviet SMG's, no use of "superior" optics... I'll start stocking favor points to get out Stalingrad '42! </font>

Whoa!! No promises!! Just the normal: "To be investigated" and then only for 42 South. Hold the champagne!! Thanx - this will help the "investigation" Yes, but I think you might have been unlucky. In any case the whole City Battle rule is about to change for the better. Peter (see post above) is creating maps for specific City Battles and the rules will be adjusted so that you only partake in a City Battle that really happened: Kiev, Kharkov etc.. The maps & history will dictate how long you will be 'in there'. Come 42 you might get stuck in Stalingrad for weeks with 9 or more battles per week

Ok Ok . 2 different animals. Still like both Both very realistic and bound to up the suspense. Got both on the 42 to-do list.

Aaron - please let me know what you find. I won't be surprised if you're right... well up to mid 44 in any case. Mmmm... I prefer Mansteins maps... variety - esp in setup zones and terrain features. After a while the QB maps all look the same. BTW We've just had another mapmaker join our ranks: Peter Molloy. So the risk of running out of maps are fading Peter's busy with speciality maps. For his first effort he's jumping away and making (check this)! 5 maps for a City Battle in Kiev (Sept 41) Each map will cater for the 7 Battle Types and 4 Map Sizes. So 5 x 4 x 7 = 140 maps!! just for 5 day's of battle!! What can I say? Welcome Peter!!

Not as far as I know. I use gutfeel. Lot of points with a likelyhood of a lot of casyalties for the attacker: more flags. Must be worth the attackers while. Would like to hear what the old hands's say on this. WWB/Rune?

Thanx for the Tank platoon info - 'stored' away for future use Apache's Counter/Immediate Assault/Attack Delayed Replacements. How's that for a title? Realy like the idea of them coming on later. You can even go to town in longer battles and stagger the arrival for different units. Now to formalize the idea into 'newbie absorbable' rules One last question? The 'Replacements' we're talking about is the Task Force right? Not some extra replacements over and above the Task Force? As for 'exciting' - I'm sold alread [ January 27, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

Apache! I think you’ve just given me what I wanted for 42 South. I love the tank replacement delay!! It will make us so bloody careful with our tanks it’s not true! I’ve been worried that the 3 diverse tanks in the Battle Group prevent us from learning about the tank platoon command problems. So: what about 2 tank platoons (different types of course) for 42 south combined with your replacement delay? What do you guys think? As for your 2nd idea re replacements for counter/immediate attack: “…allow the both sides to roll up troops/points accordingly on the basis that my clobbered Axis troops will undoubtedly ask for back-up from the Bn which they may or may not get.” Love this as well – you’re really cooking!! As I understand it – you want to move them off the map and buy extra replacements in their stead. My first reaction was, why don’t you just keep the dead instead of replacing them, but then I realized it must be because of the experience difference… Is that right? If we use (SuperSulo’s?) Scenario Editor option instead of the QB you won’t have to ‘buy’ replacements – you could just set the 'dead/replacements' experience and keep them back until they should arrive. To be honest – I haven’t tried the SE way yet – Reason being: I don’t like the idea of the player placing the flags – worried about subconscious cheating. This should be out of the player’s hands. Also worried about the player creating setup zones for the same reason. Obviously you can use the default QB setup zones, but they are quite boring. Using the pre-designed maps solves all of this, but I’m worried that we’ll run out of pre-designed maps to play on. I can’t convert the rules to the SE option hoping that we’ll have enough maps and I can’t put both options in since it looks(?) like quite mayor changes (confusion for newbies/too long rules). Maybe SuperSulo (or other players using the SE) can convince me otherwise: I’ll also play my next battle using the SE… That should give me a better idea. Getting back to the replacement delay… If we use the SE option it will be straightforward, but if we buy replacements and move the dead off the map, the Allied will get extra purchase points for the dead. I‘ve got no problem with this, but would like to hear what other players say. So for 42 South: 2 platoons of tanks & implement a time delay for reinforcements. Dead/replacement tanks placed hidden away, facing the map edge, hatch closed and a small, 5m. covered arch towards the map edge. If you’re discovered and die before 'arriving' – tough! What do you guys think? If we carry on this way we’ll end up with Apache’s Battalion in 45 [ January 26, 2003, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

Hi Apache, Sorry I wasn't sure who you were talking to Got the sheet and send a reply. My reply did not take into account your line above: "keeping it simple is a MUST" so you can discard it. Fot Battalion duties it should work quite well - once it's printed it will be a very quick and easy reference. Guys - if you hate the 1.25 calc - ask Apache for his sheet... It doesn't cater for the extreme cases such as Conscripts getting a lot of Vet replacements, but for the average replacements it will be a lot easier and faster. Pity it's such a pain to put sheets into these posts. Biltong

Apache/SuperSulo Some time back you pointed out possible confusion in the Date instructions: I’ve added some lines that will hopefully make it a bit clearer: 1- 5 Days Roll again for the number of days that you must add to your previous battle date. Re-roll if the result is greater than six. 6 – 8 Week(s) Roll again for the number of weeks that you must add to your previous battle date. Re-roll if the result is greater than three. Then roll for additional days, in accordance with the instructions above. 9 – 10 Month Add one month only. Don't roll for days or weeks. The Scalpel’s ‘Player Guide’ also explains this, so it should be reasonably clear for newbies. Let me know what you think.

Hi Guys, This thread has gone quite quiet Max even wondered if it was still worth his while doing the auto parameters. You might have wondered if I have disappeared, but I’ve been quite busy testing – let’s be honest: PLAYING BCR (and doing some work on 42 South). I should have a draft ready in a week or 2 – want to spend some time on it this weekend. Aaron/History Buff, Nice feedback . Aaron: 17 battles Wow!! I’m only on 7. Just managed to sneak into July TG! Favor: Some guys like it and even want to expand it and some guys hate it and would like to get rid of it…. The expansion/contraction has been discussed at great length (previous thread?). I try to be in the middle - with no real success. Replacement effect on Experience: I like this a lot – a lot simpler: I’m putting this on the list to be investigated and (more than likely) implemented in 42 South. No promises though As for the 2nd Chart – you say: “The advantage of this method is that Replacements can never be used to gain Exp for you squad (unlike the current system)” Bit worried about this: what happens if a Green/Conscript squad loses most of it’s men and they get replaced by vets? BTW – 41 South is under ‘feature lock’ , because we’re busy writing the 'Player Guide' (Walkthrough). All further changes will be implemented in ’42’ South. [ January 25, 2003, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

Hi Guys – Max’s Auto Param’s for ver 1.6 is now up at SuperSulo’s Site or Scooby’s Site Lots of work there Max… hate to think how long it took you. Thankless work that’s much appreciated

Just a quick update. Starting ‘coding’ on 42 South this week-end. Haven’t got all the parameters I need, but I’ll replace the guesswork as better data becomes available. As soon as I get the Walkthrough from The Scalpel I’ll launch version 2 of 41 South… Basically what you have now (ver 1.6) with some very minor changes. Had a thought (it happens) There have been a lot of good suggestions for additions to the rules that was ‘locked’ out of the 41 South rules, but what I can do, maybe, is add one for each new year (42, 43 etc) as an optional rule that players can implement if they want to. Which one would you like? Cast your vote. Biltong

Thanx HB - 2 more pieces of the puzzle Can't wait to get to the winter/snow fights myself, allthough I've only just managed to 'escape' June after 6 battles. Like your ideas for variety in battles... the holdup is specialized maps. The QB 'city' maps are quite useless. They'll have to be designed and the rules formed around the maps (I think). Keep the ideas coming. Biltong

Apache pointed me to a Grossdeutschland site that had some weather data specifically for game/scenario designers, but it had only 15% of what I needed... I did multiple searches on various search engines: Got some interesting sites, but hardly any weather data. I think the data will mostly be anecdotal and locked within reports/stories. “Such and such a date, so and so was delayed because 2 tanks got stuck in mud…” etc. That’s why I ask for any bit of info…. If you come across a single piece, eventually we’ll have most of pieces of the puzzle.

Very True!! I think that's exactly what I'm going to do.

Has anyone had an indication that the AI can/does use Sewer Movement? One of the BCR players mailed me the following: "I did an experiment to see if the computer would use sewer movement if it were the only way to accomplish the mission. The AI would not. I made a map in the Scenario Editor, split it in half with a river. I put the required buildings on both sides of the river, and a platoon of Russians and Germans on opposite banks. The only flag was near a building on one side of the river. I played each side to ensure that the sewer movement option worked, and I was able to cross the river using sewer movement for both forces. The AI would NOT do the same. As a side note, in an earlier test, I created a narrow, minefield strewn path from one side to the other. The AI would send multiple units across a known minefield if that was the only option to get to the flag. The AI could have avoided the minefield by using sewer movement, but it chose not to." Doesn't sound to good. Biltong

Scooby's site is up for those of you who want to download or view the rules etc in PDF format. Thanx Scooby!

Great help Apache! Any other weather data out there, guys? And is there anyone getting close to 42?