Biltong

JM, in earlier posts announcing MPs I think it's pretty clear you just choose the 'next' battle named appropriately for your battle type... Pragmatically though, unless these maps were all in a searchable database indexed not just by attack type but also point size, map size... I don't think you can really pick a map 'blind'- you really have to look at it. For me it doesn't matter- the way I'm doing this, don't have the option of using them, boo hoo. Eden</font>

Joking??!! No jokes there - I spend the last 2 days writing modifiers for the effect of mold on feed (you know when it's raining) and the difference of the weave of the bags on grain loss... I haven't got to the horses yet... I still have to figure out the effects of vertilizer of feed production etc etc but eventually I'll get to the horses... Damn - just thought about the different types of grain... will have to do some more research... :eek:

Hmmmm – was hoping to get to the Scalpels errata tonight, but the posts have been too interesting… Apache “ I also wonder a little about the scrounged units now. … I must admit I do not use the scrounged element of the rules myself. I rarely find the point values make it worth it…”, The points have been upped (if you have the favor to buy them)... Reasons for keeping points for scrounged units low: 1. Your Auxiliaries are the main ‘supplement’ – (read cannon fodder)… Scrounged units are just a little ‘gift’ – to enable you to buy what you want to fill the gaps left by the QB decided Auxiliaries. 2. Some guys machines won’t handle too large battles Apache cont. ”…I think the gun towing element is a good point too…. an AT gun stuck way back in the woods generally being about as much use as a chocolate fireguard!” Inclusion of Vehicles in the Scrounged category has been on the list for a while and was scheduled for tonight… was... Pete Wenman Apache has got close to an idea I have been toying with. That of running an armoured Pz Gr Coy (Bttn ? ) through the campaign. Hence my large maps Someone else also working on this idea as well – I think a lot of guys would love this. BTW I’ve scheduled to hunt for a mod database site to store BCR mods and descriptions. How about core attached units. These would represent bttn/regt/div assets attached to the force, but only for certain tasks. I.E. a recce plt would be available for a probe or attack, but a pioneer plt (coy) would be available for an assault. However when on defence these attachemts may be withdrawn, but replaced with points value, mines, wire, bunkers etc. … This would have the added effect of making attached units more valuable, rather than cannon fodder. Lose your recce force, it will take a while to replace it. Lose your pnr' plt, don't expect to be able to build bunkers and plant wire and mines. I like this…. Bit worried that it might make battles too large for some PC’s … might have to fall in the mod category… Do some work on it Pete – I think guys would be interested. BTW – my one kid is playing your map and loves it History Buff; Eden Smallwood; Grog vs RPG or rather Easy exp gain vs Difficult exp gain Apache summed it up neatly: “Reflecting the historical accuracy to some degree may actually prolong interest. Have to be careful here I think. Most PC games work on the basis of the levels getting harder etc for that reason.” BCR’s Goal is to: 1. Enable players to play a Campaign from June 41 through all of the CMBB terrain until the final day of battle in Berlin. 2. Make sure that the Campaign never becomes Boring – the difficulty must increase, it must be varied and the Campaign must end in a climax. Battle 5 you’re co is Vet – Battle 10 you’re co is Crack – Aug 41 you and everybody else is bored and stop playing….? We’re lucky that the Axis decline offers us the opportinity to fight realistically tougher and tougher battles… All we still need is a climax – and that will come (if you’ll excuse the pun)… Apache “Multiply the Aux Forces by the correct modifiers when attacking etc. (this brings your force size up a little but, leaving out the core, not by as much)… Take any scrounged unit points (from you LAST battle), multiply them by the modifier if attacking etc…” This sounds interesting as well… Both you and Pete on the same track here? Keep us informed… History Buff; SuperSulo; Eden et al Points for killing & Favor I Cut down on the Battle Group sheet: 1) to make it simpler 2) to reduce exp points gained so that we won’t get those Crack troops so easily (see above) But, SuperSulo’s remark: “Maybe if any infantry casualties are caused or received it should be +1. That would separate out the troops that sit through a battle without making contact with the enemy from those who were on the front lines” pressed the right button… - will be investigated/fixed. Off the top of my head: 1 point per squad/team etc (max) if they had any kills – now I’ll have to find a way to take those points away again Eden The question of whether a soldier takes out mortar, et cetera, is a matter for his experience, (for reasons which hopefully are self explanatory), but is not a matter of 'favor'. Hmmm – don’t agree here. Initially (pre 1.4) troops got exp for killing nearly anything.. I decided for KISS and realism to stick to what really makes a troop shine in his comrades eyes… Simply: what could have resulted in a medal/ribbon/patch…. Out went mortars etc… No one ever got mentioned for taking out a mortar… a MG bunker – now we’re talking! Even more absurd: a tank crew gaining experience from taking out a MG bunker or a mortar?!! Kissed goodbye. Favor When your co reports to his co, he takes along a sheet with confirmed enemy kills/Tanks Ko’d/arty/mortars/captured etc etc… If his sheet is empty although the enemy ran away… not much favor, believe me. His Co needs to report up and so on and so on… “those 2 pillboxes who were holding us up – history sir! We lost 30 men KIA; 50 wounded; killed 87 and captured 20; got 7 artillery pieces and 3 tanks, Sir!” And tanks were and still is really important in this regard, History Buff - Watch CNN in a couple of months I agree Mortars – not really very important for favor (hence the 2 points) – If you say reduce them to 1… maybe. But tanks/Lt armor/vehicles/guns/bunkers – definitely important. Why don’t I stick with KISS here? – go with Eden’s One Favor option? I liked that the player gets close to what he did. That he’s forced to examine the battlefield afterwards… not just a question of writing down the CMBB AAR, but: I took out a tank here – a mortar there – an AC here etc etc… Low flying through the battlefield – reliving what happened. "Ahhh there's that bloody AT gun that got my..." The Summary… The Greek monologue at the end of the tragedy… ya get my drift: ‘Closure’. But I couldn’t do this via the Battle Group Sheet and give experience for crazy things (above), and I can (realistically) give favor to most of the important elements that made the battle what it was. BCR philosophy 101 Great discussion guys

Manstein22 has been busy!! 22 NEW MAPS!! as well as some updates on existing ones. Map Pack 1 has been redone and loaded with more variety. Manstein has some tricks up his sleeve. Saw some ‘Bogus’ Flags on one map, be careful Download the latest BCR Map Expansion List v1.4.1 (55 Maps!) and the updated Map Pack 1 here: Scooby’s Site or here SuperSulo’s Site

BCR’s Goal is to: 1. Enable players to play a Campaign from June 41 through all of the CMBB terrain until the final day of battle in Berlin. 2. Make sure that the Campaign never becomes Boring – the difficulty must increase, it must be varied and the Campaign must end in a climax. 3. Keep the Campaign as Historically accurate as possible. 4. Keep it short and simple enough to allow most players to understand and use it. 5. Enable anyone to Expand or Modify BCR to his own taste. 6. Provide Excitement, Tension and just good old-fashioned Fun!

Unfortunately we only do an update every 2 weeks... Next one due on 27th, but I won't be surprised if it comes out a bit before Christmas Biltong

They came along from Wreck's old rules... I liked them because: 1) In war you scrounge... mostly weapons certainly, but for short periods men as well. 2) It affords the opportunity to get and play with units which you don't normally get from the QB... Note: They have to be used as replacements first in an emergency reorganization so they don't hang around for very long... v1.5 "If you have a Scrounged Unit that can 'realistically' be used as a replacement for casualties. Use up Scrounged Units first. E.g.: A Scrounged Mortar crew won't be used to replace Infantry, but Scrounged Inf could replace a MG crew". Logic? Eventualy all scrounged units get recalled to their rightfull units... we normally have them for a short time. If it's a long time it's because our CO paid someone off. They get replacements because the QB won't allow us to buy partial squads etc.. In 'real life' our CO loved the scrounged team or whatever so much he gave them replacements out of our new intake of rookies. The Scrounged guys were hot and he wanted to hold onto them for as long as he could. As for replacement mortars etc... we give them our own & then we claim from Division... normal story Scheduled to be cleaned up

I'm extremely worried about these horses... Just to start: type of feed; wagons, lorries, soldiers etc to transport feed and the one that really worries me is how much feed does it take to transport feed? This is going to delay the release of BCR by at least 6 months!! Very worried... :eek: Biltong

Thanx Hawker - good of you to pop in - as for waiting... no need - see post above - we're just dotting t's (this happens) Yes & No... I've stated before it will more than likely never be done... Since it's a non-commercial product driven by the players themselves, without the constrictions of manuals/packaging/marketing etc - we'll keep on refining it...(until CM3 comes out?) As for waiting until it's finished before releasing it - see paragraph above What the hell - it was released warts and all... guys downloaded it - got hooked - asked or bitched if something was wrong or unclear and before they knew it became involved in developing the rules themselves... A virtual orgy of feedback .. can't think of any other way it could've come this far so fast - the best ideas/solutions/expansions came from the campaigners themselves... Still needs some work on clarity in some areas, but most guys figger those out quite easily. There's no need to wait anymore - all mayor changes have been done - download and get going, you're missing out Expand Walkthrough - scheduled - see Update doc Goal in Intro - done - see 1st post of this thread Don't worry - be happy & start playing... Biltong

No need to wait any longer Lou... The changes that are being done now are in the fine-tuning category... minor and mostly to do with clarification of the rules & tying up lose ends. We don't plan/show/have rules for what happens between battles... That is outside the scope of BCR... But I won't be surprised if some enterprising gent comes up with an expansion to cater for that perverse perfection

FAVOR Good news: Minor changes that shouldn’t affect your current campaigns much… Bad news: Most guys asked for a lot and got little… As always: Everything is up for discussion and debate and if you convince me… I’ll change anything Max 4/12 & Apache 5/12 Ask to be able to use the points left over: “you are allowed to purchase up to 1720 points for an Axis Assault by the QB, but your rolled forces are only 1660” to be used in exchange for Favor. Max spent a lot of time and effort on this… Sorry Max Decided against that – A one to one ratio against the AI is too easy. I’m already worried that the Purchase Points adjustment (Provisional Force Size calc) we made earlier makes it too easy for the Axis. Easy = boring. However: “… sometimes the increase in points is only 20 for Inf/Support, which may only allow you to pick up a sharpshooter or flamethrower. When I think about how favor with your CO would have been used, I think about asking (begging?) that 1st platoon from Company C, or the heavy weapons platoon, be attached to your Company for whatever action you are going into. For vehicles and armor, I'd think the smallest unit would be a single tank, or maybe a pair of armored cars for recon.” Here I met you halfway and increased the die roll modifier to 3 for Inf/Sup; Vehicle; Armor & Fortifications. This means in most cases you would be able to nearly double your purchase points for that category. E.g.: Inf/Support from 100 to 175; Vehicle from 80 to 140; Armor from 100 to 175 etc. Obviously the Allies will also get more points… You will have to take that into account. Pascal “I just realized that there's no favor for any Infantry kills and survival - is that intended ?” also Eden made an impassioned plea: “Why not use the calculated 'points' in the CMBB AAR as one's "Favor" points? The people at BTS have already gone to some effort, we believe, to make that final "97% , 3%" victory calculation…” While designing the rules I purposely left out a separate Inf kills calc and as for Eden’s suggestion of using the AAR – both of these are already in place: The Favor gained or lost due to “Result Favor”. CMBB is doing both for us when calculating the battle result – Enemy killed plays a large part in this calculation. To give favor for enemy killed or for the % that each side gets would mean ‘doubling up’ on the Favor given/lost due to the Result… That doesn’t make sense, unless I missed something. However – I explained the enemy killed inclusion in the Favor Note: “Note that Enemy Infantry killed etc. is deemed to be included in the Favor obtained from the overall battle 'Result' See Top Right of Favor Sheet.” and increased the Favor effect of the “Result”. Result Favor Total Defeat -50 Major Defeat -35 Minor Defeat -20 Tactical Defeat -10 Tactical Vic 5 Minor Vic 10 Major Vic 20 Total Vic 30 I’m just guessing re the. real difference between Minor and Tactical – If someone has info in this regard – please post here. Mare Ichthys 10/12 “…was wondering about how people are using favor in these rules. Specifically, are you spending your favor points before rolling the die, or are you using favor as a way to 'improve' the result only if you don't like the original roll? “ Added this in Note 9 - Favor You can trade in prescribed points of Favor to alter the die roll by a maximum of 1 (or in some cases 3) up or down, when you feel it would help your cause. E.g.: You have 30 Favor points available and roll up (18) Force Mix - You get a '6' (Mechanized). If you want, you can 'buy' a '7' (Combined Armor) by spending the prescribed 10 points of Favor leaving you with 20. Max 10/12 “…As far as that goes, should you be able to affect the date of a Defensive action?…” Removed the Favor option out of Date (1) – Can’t see where else that could happen, Max? Eden 10/12 “... I captured three Platoon HQs, and two Co HQs, which struck me as the one thing which would impress my commander a lot more than knocking out a few weapons...?” Favor Sheet now caters for ‘–5’ or ‘+4’ for Prisoner HQ’s/team Max “…maybe it is too cheap to use the Favor to improve future battles….” What I am saying is that we need to look at the balance of how many Favor points we receive, and the "cost" of using that Favor. If after one battle (in which I had only minimal success) I can use Favor with my CO to have him delay the next battle, I think that is a little unbalanced. I should have to show by repetition that my decision should be trusted - basically, I should have to fight a few winning battles to have enough Favor to adjust certain things. Some costs increased: Time(2): 20; Force Mix (18): 20; Immediate Attack(53): 40; Normal Replacements (56): 20; Difficult one – this ‘Earn/Spend’ balance might need more fine-tuning down the line… SuperSulo “… I have 503 favor points after 5 battles! All thanks to the "Prisoner(s) Theraft 2x" part. When the enemy surrenders, you get A LOT of prisoners, and the favor skyrockets….” Changed the points earned and lost for prisoners, eg.: Friendly 1St Theraft HQ's -5x -3x -5x Enemy 1St Theraft HQ's 3x 1x 4x … Also introduced a 50 Favor Point Max earned per battle. Favor (9) “Also note that you cannot earn more than 50 Favor Points per battle - There's a limit to how much you can impress your CO “ as well as a note on the Favor Sheet itself. Apache Add a little Total box below each Favor calc to ease calculations... Done Last 'mayor' change! Not much of a change though… more of a storm in a teacup No more ‘mayor’ changes listed. Are we ready for v2.0? Next – Answer some e-mails & posts, then Clarify Scrounged Units, Scalpel’s list of errata and Mansteins new map pack. Cary on playing

I understand from the players that you now have Tactical as well as Minor defeats/vics? If that is correct when does the one take over from the other? The answer that I need is something in the line of: Tactical: when there's max 10% difference between the two sides E.g.: Axis 45% Allied 55% and Minor goes up to 20%, Eg: Axis 40% Allied 60% Or does it work in another way? Does anyone besides BTS know? An 'informed' guess? If anyone had either of those results and still have your sheets - won't you post or mail me the percentages for both sides, so I can get an idea of what's cooking. Much appreciated [ December 16, 2002, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

I understand from the players that you now have Tactical as well as Minor defeats/vics? If that is correct when does the one take over from the other? The answer that I need is something in the line of: Tactical: when there's max 10% difference between the two sides E.g.: Axis 45% Allied 55% and Minor goes up to 20%, Eg: Axis 40% Allied 60% Or does it work in another way? Does anyone besides BTS know? An 'informed' guess?

Also surprised... Maybe everyone's busy playing with the latest rules? Got it thanx Biltong

First - make sure you have the latest rules v1.4 I Assume you did not have an immediate attack or a counter attack. In that case your original company will receive replacements to 'fill up' the depleted squads - This is what happens in (56) Normal Replacements: "After each battle the Battle Group (including Scrounged Units) get replacements, except when there is a Counter or Immediate Attack." You roll a die to obtain the Experience for your replacements. This Experience is then used in Note 3 Experience Calculation - where the new experience for the replenished squad is calculated. This is filled in on the Battle Group Sheet in the collumn: After Replacement (Exp)for each HQ/Squad/team etc. When you start your next battle you will fill this same exp in the collumn 'Exp Before Battle' on the new Battle Group Sheet. Plus does anyone know if it is possible to change individual squads experience in a Quick Battle? How do you do it? Note 7 - Generating the Real Battle: "Unfortunately you won't be able to buy the squads/HQ's etc. in your Inf. Company at different Experience Settings, so you have to average the Experience for the Company. Add up the experience of each Co unit: HQ/Squad/team and divide by number of units." Give it another try - we are working on making things clearer... If you have more questions - post, someone will answer Biltong [ December 15, 2002, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

Busy fixing Normal Replacements in the rules and refined the Replacement Exp a bit more: Axis Replacement Experience for East Front · June 41..... 10% Vet; 60% Reg; 30% Green; . Sept 41..... 30% Vet; 40% Reg; 30% Green; · End 41...... 20% Vet; 30% Reg; 50% Green; · Summer 42 30% Vet; 30% Reg; 30% Green; 10% Con · End 42...... 20% Vet; 20% Reg; 50% Green; 20% Con · Summer 43 20% Vet; 20% Reg; 30% Green; 30% Con · End 43...... 10% Vet; 10% Reg; 40% Green; 40% Con . Summer 44 10% Vet; 10% Reg; 30% Green; 50% Con · End 44...... 10% Vet; 10% Reg; 20% Green; 60% Con · End War..... 0% Vet; 10% Reg; 20% Green; 70% Con As we get more accurate info on replacements, these will obviously change, but at least we have something in place and I'll be surprised if it's way off... BTW - It's not as if you'll be facing just Crack Soviets towards the end either... A grog send me this: "A couple of things you might want to keep in mind here. One is that the German troops in the last stages were not uniformly miserable. Some of them were highly experienced veterans with plenty of fight still left in them. After all, I think the Reds lost 200,000 dead in the battle for Berlin. Also, the Soviets were having their own problems with troop numbers and quality. While there was more training after the first months of '42, they also began suffering manpower shortages after mid-'43. By the end of the war, they like everybody else, were scraping the bottom of the manpower barrel. A lot of their troops didn't even speak Russian. They were taken from the non-Russian republics and there seem to have been disciplinary problems with them. They have been described in places as no more than an armed mob, but how much of that is racism/cultural chauvanism I can't tell. Proceed with caution." So it might end up Conscript Axis vs Conscript/Reg Soviet mix with some Regulars/Vets and a Crack or 2 mixed in on both sides!! Sounds bloody We've got at least a year or 2 to come up with a 'good' climax!! Biltong [ December 15, 2002, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

Good points!! I've got 6 pages (smallprint) of Favor feedback already... My main problem is that my spellchecker says it's Favour and not Favor... The rest should be easy...

To be honest - I wouldn't mind playing one like that myself It wouldn't take much to modify BCR to do that... Once BCR has settled down someone might volunteer Excessive prisoner favor noted

Still on the list, Apache - I don't take things off it Check the Update doc As I remember it's quite high up, but 1st things first Biltong [ December 15, 2002, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

Ok guys – got what I wanted Experience Gain – Replacements Solution (for now) From the posts above and e-mails received I’ve taken the following: 1. Apache “Better perhaps to start with higher quality and gradually wind down with your unit getting weaker and weaker troops replacing the losses” 2. Andy … weight the experience of the surviving members of the unit more than the newcomers, new experience = (3*8*old_experience + *new_experience)/(3*8+2) 3.Myself 1st we have to plan the replacements for the war as a whole… So: 1. Start Battle Group off as Regular 2. Note 3 – Experience Calculation (Men left x 2 x Experience After Battle*) + (Replacements x Experience**) divided by (total men in unit x 2) = After Replacement Experience* for unit. Round up from (and including) '.5' E.g.: 6.5 will be 7 and 3.49 equals 3. * See Battle Group Sheet; **As determined in (56) Normal Replacements. 3. Axis Replacement Experience for East Front · June 41 10% Vet; 60% Reg; 30% Green; · End 41 20% Vet; 30% Reg; 50% Green; · End 42 15% Vet; 20% Reg; 45% Green; 20% Con · End 43 10% Vet; 10% Reg; 40% Green; 40% Con · End 44 5% Vet; 5% Reg; 30% Green; 60% Con · End War 5% Vet; 5% Reg; 20% Green; 70% Con Notes I diluted Andy’s formula from 3 to 2 loading for survivors. We are in uncharted territory here and this might (more than likely) need adjustment once we have 20 or so battles behind us. BTW – Please hold onto your paperwork – In time we might need all players to give us some feedback on their results for ‘fine’-fine tuning. Thanx guys – your feedback really makes my life easy BTW – talking about feedback… Some of you might feel that you don’t know enough; might be wrong and get shot down… that you’re ideas are vague/incorrect/unsubstantiated etc… Please! ALL FEEDBACK IS WANTED & NEEDED… even if wrong it still stimulates though and discussion. Without feedback BCR would be a dead duck. Next: FAVOR Biltong [ December 15, 2002, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

The Scalpel mailed me the following (trust him to go for the crux) “… what is the purpose of this campaign? Is it simply enduring the approximately 200 battles the campaign creates in the four years of war on the Eastern front? Is it to have a higher quality force at the end than historical trends allow? Should the player aspire to Battalion level command? Keep more Germans alive than happened in reality? Win more battles than other campaigners? What is the ultimate goal we set for ourselves in this simulation? The rules generate the environment for the player to work in, but what is that person trying to accomplish within this framework….” The goal has always been in the back of my mind, and I’ve stated some portions of it before, but never formally – so here goes: BCR’s Goal is to: 1. Enable players to play a Campaign from June 41 through all of the CMBB terrain until the final day of battle in Berlin. 2. Make sure that the Campaign never becomes Boring – the difficulty must increase, it must be varied and the Campaign must end in a climax. 3. Keep the Campaign as Historically accurate as possible. 4. Keep it short and simple enough to allow most players to understand and use it. 5. Enable anyone to Expand or Modify BCR to his own taste. 6. Provide Excitement, Tension and just good old-fashioned Fun! BCR is just for yourself… the battle is between yourself and an enemy who grows stronger every year… You will have to become a better commander for you and your men to survive till the end. Obviously we still have to do the other years and fronts, but, as for the main rules - I think we're 90% there. Some fine-tuning to be done - quite a bit of fine-tuning But BCR's up and running. Thanx to all of you!! Biltong

Effect of Replacements on Exp Gain Scalpel picked this one up fast TG... It had the potential of bringing all our games to a halt after 10? or so battles... We better solve it. He states the problem as: 1. Currently the player has little hope (or motivation) of ever having troops better than the replacement level. The higher the current point value of the unit above the replacement norm, the farther it drops when substitutes show up to fill in for casualties (and there will be bodies). And 2. If the existing unit is of lower quality than the replacements, then the commander has a strong incentive to kill off those troops to get the higher quality newbies. I spent some time looking at Scalpels suggestion posted above, but I have a number of concerns: 1. Main Concern: (56) Replacement Exp modifiers: Date; Company CO Exp. and esp.: FAVOR negated except in the case of Total Casualty State. 2. 2nd Concern: Bit complicated and long to explain to newbies. Will need another Note and some spreadsheet work at least? Also: 3. Have to bring in ‘Half ways’ of exp levels 4. Need to calc 1/3 & 1/2 of each unit strength which has casualties (plus rounding) 5. 56 Normal Replacement Exp must still be calculated for Total Casualty State – it is not as if the new calcs will replace it Possible alternate Solutions 1. Increase Overall Exp Gain to 2 (don’t like this much – feels like a step back?) 2. Modify Note 3 Experience Calc to soften effect of replacements – math wizzes? 3. Prevent homicidal CO’s through Favor loss – Heavy penalties for · Overall % casualties · No of Squads/teams wiped out 4. Slowly reduce quality of replacements through the year from Sept onwards up to Dec when average = 20% Vets + 20% Regulars (returning or posted to the front); rest: 60% Green. I think from what I read in the Grog mails that this was close to reality in any case. So – maybe I was going arse about face… 1st we have to plan the replacements for the war as a whole, e.g.: Chances Replacement Quality: · June 41 10% Vet; 60% Reg; 30% Green; · End 41 20% Vet; 20% Reg; 60% Green; · End 42 10% Vet; 10% Reg; 50% Green; 30% Con · End 43 10% Vet; 10% Reg; 40% Green; 40% Con · End 44 5% Vet; 5% Reg; 30% Green; 60% Con · End War 5% Vet; 5% Reg; 20% Green; 70% Con This slow reduction in replacement quality + Favor penalties should curtail the homicidal CO. (problem 2) As for Scalpels problem no 1 – Wasn’t that what happened anyway: Replacements dragging a squad’s quality down - through all the wars, through all the centuries? But maybe one of the math wizzes can come up with an easy formula to reduce this effect? Feedback guys, please – lets kill the little bugger .

Scalpel wrote some months ago? "I would really like to get some vehicle transport for my scrounged units." Feedback? AND FORGET ABOUT TANKS!! [ December 14, 2002, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]