jtcm

This is what I meant Destroying SMGs But still, would be good to get the refresher version here: --HE --flame --differential LOS into cover

There was a very good thread on this, maybe 4 years ago, with good contributions by Walpurgis and JasonC. maybe a search ? The title of "How to beat SMGs" vel sim.

Tried out this scenario out of JasonC's Little Saturn pack, as Soviets against Hungarians: depleted (but reinforced) Sov Battn attacks Hungarian held town. SPOILERS * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * As usual in scenarios, made a hash of it the first time round-- just too many units to control. Roughly speaking, sent in assault force into the heavily shelled part of the town (on my right), overwhelmed whatever I found there, then ponderously hooked left. The various reinforcements I just sent forward on diversionary attacks forward, where they fared rather middlingly. The "armoured fist" of T 34s I sent into the town with tank riders. The light tanks T-70s, I sent curving around the town, but they ran into enemy armour and died. I re-edited the scenario. mostly suppressing the reinforcements on allied side, and leaving: 1. the assault force on my right, with a. infy point, 2 rifle squads and plt. b. assault body, commanded by Battn commander: 2 SMG squads, 1 rifle sq, 1 ATR c. floating heavy weaps. groups. d. two reserves: pioneers, remaining SMG e. the 122mm FO f. reinforcement: T 60s 2. The surprise reinforcement: a. T 34s and SMG riders b. T 70s Group 1, as before, made for the ruined part of town, then squads worked their way left, from cover to cover, with T 60s abreast and SMG-heavy assault group trailing. Group 2, as before, made for the houses and the road block on my left, working their way forward with HE and SMG work. Clock ran out: good progress on the right, whenever anything encountered it was smothered by return fire, but by the end enemy reinforcements started to make themselves felt, especially light armour, which was not quite held in check by ATRs and the 20mm cannon on the T-60s. On the left, some progress, but butted into enemy reinforcements fed into the fire fight, cat and mouse with enemy PZ-IV. A draw. [ May 15, 2008, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: jtcm ]

In the Tatsinkaya scenario, the MC troops moved not in front of the tanks, but as a parallel assault group (stupid, I know)-- unloaded their guys, then zoomed back. ACs: I thought they might get holed by Flak, so kept them hanging back behind the infantry, sometimes keyholing them to buildings etc to silence or pin. So all in all, not quite the rampaging cavalry raid this should ahve been. Landser holiday: actually cover was less important than "laying alongside the enemy", in the end: a full plt "steaming" forward, well spaced out ( while others (in cover, yes) fired and pinned) moving into range. Incidentally, is there any real life evidence for mortars being used this way, i.e. marched out of covered but hidden by fog or mist or dusk or snow or distance, but within command distance (shouting distance ?) of a spotter with binoculars or whatever, who calls down mortar shells on a position ? I would have thought the mortars really too exposed-- to e.g. enemy arty fire, or a counter-attack.

The Iraq War of 2003, and the subsequent years, have not seen great respect for archaeological sites on the part of US forces. https://listhost.uchicago.edu/mailman/listinfo/iraqcrisis http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/IRAQ/sites/sitesintro.htm and especially http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/4710/chalmers_johnson_on_robbing_the_cradle_of_civilization [ May 11, 2008, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: jtcm ]

Double post

Great idea, runners. How long did the company attack take ? Sharpshooters as runners-- how about using crack tank hunters instead ? Incidentally: how widespread were radios at the plt level for infantry in the various forces ? I imagine better in e.g. US army than Russian, but pure guess. Vague memory of radios (or lack thereof, but because of various snafus) in reading Keegan's Six Armies in Normandy, recounting US airborne in action (Ste Mere l'Eglise, maybe ? Something about Co assault against German plt in farmhouse taking very long because no radios, compared in Keeganesque style to defenders of La Haie Sainte at Waterloo ?)

JasonC is right-- typical phenomenon of the archaeological landscape of the ancient near east (and not so east: Hisarlik, the site of ancient Troy, can be considered as a tell); the Turkish is "tepe", simply hill. The last one above may well have been gone over by illegal excavators.

Oh, great. I look forward to playing as the heroic 24th Tank Corps ! Little Saturn does give a whole series of varied scenarios, but there's a sense in which the whole thing might be better for a slightly higher-level game, something like the old "V for Victory" series

In other words, I should have been more aggressive, both times. Desperate times, desperate measures !

I tried the two scenarios suitable for AI play, namely the Tatsinskaya Airfield raid (NB correct spelling !), and the LS 7 breakout scenario. Very atmospheric and impressive. Oh and I lost both times, of course. SPOILERS * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tatsinskaya: I rampaged, but a little too slowly, with infantry grinding forward until hit by desultory small arms, then tanks moving forward. The 88s took out 2 tanks, but were surprisingly easily taken out by tank fire. I captured one of the flags, and had broken into the control tower by the time the clock ran out. If only the field had been full of Junkers-52 to shoot up ! Breakout: because of snow, everything had to be move, not advance. On the left, I tried a single plt. trying to sneak forward and exfiltrate. Of course, once cover ran out, it ran into Russian infantry, including an infantry gun, so had to fall back. On the right, I had an infantry "fist" or column: one point plt, 2 weapons groups trailing as support, the pioneers, and the weakened plt. This is what happened 1. When the point hit something serious (HMGs in woods), the weapons groups moved forward, set up, and shot and mortared the HMGs away. The Co commander took over an assault group: pioneers, rifle squads, fts, which rushed the woods and cleared them with some losses, alas (good use of proximity fire by ft). The weapons groups relocated to these freshly cleared woods, 2. At this point, a few enemy squads appeared on the left, moving across open ground, but were driven back by the MG-42s, and also the left-hand plt, moving to catch the enemy squads in the flank. 3. Within the (not-so) freshly cleared woods, the assault group moved to the edge of cover, the heavy weapons (MG-42s, mortars with smoke) relocated to provide overwatch. Smoke to isolate a corridor, then fire on enemy infantry in the body of woods opposite. 4. Clock is running out: all-out stampede. Alas, too late: total defeat. The point units are about 30 m. from exit zone.

Did the Germans (well, say post-Sedan) teach their junior officers that "Any decision is better than no decision" ? (vel sim)

Could anyone explain to me what this is all about ? Somewhere there was a point about mortars and ATGs, but this, I must say, I don;t get. There's obviously some back story.

Well, is it or isn't it ? (Guy Sajer actually writes graphic novels in French, under the nom de plume Dimitri-- either right-wing political satire, or Landser" type WWII (or WWI) combat narratives. I used to read them, and think "The author's some kind of Nazi", and was surprised to find out that Dimitri was actually Guy Sajer-- i.e. (as far as I believed, and still believe) a real ex-WWII Nazi soldier.)

My curiosity piqued, I actually played this. Nice to practice offensive technique, I suppose; more interesting would be setting up an effective, economical defense against this kind of attack.

"An engineer unit with panels for marking Dog Red Beach landed on Easy Red, over a mile away; they set up their panels anyway. "

Excellent, thanks. Hair-raising stuff, in staff college prose.

So what's the best narrative account of Omaha ? And where to go for the best primary (or near primary) accounts-- i.e. AARs ? I know there's a certain amt of "worm-eye accounts" of the action in things like "After the Battle" magazine, etc. Saving Private Ryan was reviewed by Soldier of Fortune magazine (which lambasted it as a "librul" movie. One of the gripes was that in the Omaha scene, MG 42s were hosing the beach down with uninterrupted fire-- whereas training requires aimed bursts. Hmm.

Hollywood-style fake German or Russian accents ? Ugh, speak of bad taste. Don't forget to throw in the occasional, comics-style bits of "original" language: "Donnerwetter ! Der English Schweinhund is komming clozer !" etc.

Under the command of Tom Hanks

Don't believe anything you read in the Daily Mail-- the article, with its sensationalism and its middle-brow simplication of everything, is typical. JasonC's post, with sources and analysis, is enough to dispell the article's fog.

Just read on the Russian Battlefront site, among the (variable) personal accounts of combat, the following: Russian Battlefront Shares many features with other such reminiscences (it's partly moulded by the interviewer's leading questions or template), but surprisingly sober and gruff. Of interest for CMBB-ers: attack starting at a slow pace (unlike Shelepov's expectancy of "Urrah"-lead charge); praise for Russian LMG; security detail for 45mm ATG; praise for 45 mm ATG; use of light mortars (to rout pinned attackers); relative scarcity (and cautious use) of German armour; close assault with grenades against armour possible, but costly and swearing-inducing. All known features, but nice to see them in this context (and reassuring for those who, like me, worry about worm's eye realism)

Must look at DAF scenario. Otherwise, one could imagine a series of interlinked "operations as seen at the sharp-end" small scenarios, good for solo play, with exit zones, indeterminate enemy locations, to simulate being part of a "recon net" being pushed forward...

whew, glad we clarified that

Apologies for being a pedant, but that can't be how MC recon was used in Real Life ? Set up overwatch, then "Mad Max" some guys in motorcycles at suspected MLRs ?