gunnergoz

I don't play MP so this really doesn't affect me in games much...if the AI throws a truck or kubel at me, I'll kill it for points and if I waste my jeeps that way the AI will happily kill them too. I think it is worthwhile for human players playing each other to define such questions beforehand, as this thread intelligently tries to do. Clearly people are divided on the subject. What is "gamey?" I'd say it is using a game object in a manner unrealistic compared to the real world. Is it "gamey" to recon in a kubel or jeep? No, AFAIK it was done all the time. As noted, the scouts might dismount if they felt the enemy was around the bend or over the rise, but that is just good scouting technique...to remain unobserved while you observe and evaluate the enemy. Nor do I see it to be "gamey" to have a jeep or kubel at the head of a column going into contested territory, though I suspect that most of the time real commanders would prefer to lead the column with something a tad more survivable than that just in case it hits a mine or does draw fire from a surprise encounter. Is it "gamey" to use a jeep or kubel to conduct a reconnaissance by intentionally drawing fire? I'd have to say yes, since most of the time the crew is going to be very exposed and vulnerable. If they are going to survive their mission, they won't have time to sit and carefully observe who or what is firing at them. If you are going to do recon this way, I'd suspect that most armies would send a slightly more survivable vehicle like a scout car or light tank to check out if the enemy is going to shoot at it. War entails risks, obviously, and sometimes commanders are forced to order subordinates to take great risks. But I'd vote with the side that says that, most of the time, most commanders will not throw the lives of their troops away for some short-term tactical advantage. It is one thing to drop a para regiment into enemy territory to hold a bridge and another to tell a couple of soldiers in a jeep/kubel to "keep going until you expose the enemy's firing positions, without regard for your own skins." Which is not to say it was not ever done in wartime. That is one thing that reading about the war for a hobby will do for you - teach you that almost anything you can conceive of happened during wartime. And probably more than just once. In the end, if both sides consent to such tactics, then fine, go ahead and use them. I suspect that the particularly competitive players will be all in favor of it, where the more "historically minded buffs" will say, "Now wait a moment, that's just not realistic." If you can get two such diverse personalities to agree upon anything, more power to you.

FWIW this is the Ordnance data from the ballistics manual 1944:

Sounds like a corrupt save to me and worth a look.

Wait until we get a genuine Huertgen Forest campaign...that will hurt for sure.

There's something new to learn every day. Thanks for the link.

Hadn't heard about LeClerc being told to hold back his colonials in the 2nd French AD. Was that a SHAEF order? Personally, I can't see Ike making such an order but there were others below him in the chain of command that were not as diplomatic as he was. Wiki says about 3600 of the division's troops were colonials and that some of the first to enter Paris were with a regiment from Chad.

I suspect there are professional military females who would find the game interesting but they tend to be very busy people and war gaming is probably not high on their recreational activities list when they do get some time off. When you start talking about the active duty career crowd you have a lot of military brats who have relatively exotic interests, females included.

You'd have to ask the local federal prosecutor and see what he/she felt about the matter. Potentially, yes, if they elected to throw the book at the suspects. Prosecutions and trials cost a lot of money for the government to pursue, so they'd possibly offer the defendant(s) a plea deal like trespassing on a government reservation: but you never know how that will turn out because federal judges can be pretty severe too. In any event, they'd have at minimum a federal arrest on their record and that is seldom salutary to one's career prospects unless one has an outlaw career in mind.

OCMH UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II, Special Studies, THE EMPLOYMENT OF NEGRO TROOPS Blanket dismissals serve no one.

And your constructive contribution to the conversation is...?

Maybe the combat units but are you sure about all the artillery and AA units in the list, Jon? BTW, I was expanding upon another poster's mentioning of the 92nd ID. So what is your relevant list? How about all the TC colored truck companies on the Red Ball Express? That will keep you busy looking for say, 2 minutes.

Argie - The ordnance ammo inspection manual (TM 9-1904) describes the ammo to be used with rifle grenades as being without a bullet. Having a bit of trouble finding WW2 US rifle grenades launched with ball ammo. If you can help point me in the right direction, it would be appreciated.

There supposedly one instance of an M8 winning such a duel in the Ardennes, closing on the Tiger's rear (so close the 88 could not depress) and pumping 37mm rounds into the engine compartment until it caught fire. Read of it in one of my Bulge books, just which one escapes me now. If it did happen as written, that crew had big brass ones...but one wonders since so many German tanks were "Tigers" to the GI's in those days and I'm not sure how many Tiger I's were in the Bulge. Doing it to a Tiger II defies even my feverish imagination.

One list I ran accross of "Colored" WW2 US Army units: 2nd Cavalry Division (Horse) (Colored) (inactivated in North Africa and used to created stevedore units) 92nd Infantry Division (Colored) 93rd Infantry Division (Colored) 4th Cavalry Brigade (Colored) (part of 2 Cav Div) 5th Cavalry Brigade (Colored) (part of 2 Cav Div) 46th Field Artillery Brigade (Colored) 5th Armored Group (Colored) 333rd Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored) 349th Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored) 350th Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored) 351st Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored) 353rd Field Artillery Group (Motorized) (Colored) 76th Antiaircraft Artillery Group (Colored) 77th Antiaircraft Artillery Group (Colored) 90th Antiaircraft Artillery Group (Colored) 121st Coast Artillery Group (Antiaircraft) (Colored) 122nd Coast Artillery Group (Antiaircraft) (Colored) 152nd Coast Artillery Group (155mm Gun) (Colored) 369th Antiaircraft Artillery Group (Colored) 24th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate) 25th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (93rd Infantry Division (Colored)) 364th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate) 365th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (92nd Infantry Division (Colored)) 366th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate) 367th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate) 368th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (93rd Infantry Division (Colored)) 369th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (93rd Infantry Division (Colored)) 370th Infantry Regiment (Colored) (92nd Infantry Division (Colored)) 371st Infantry Regiment (Colored) (92nd Infantry Division (Colored)) 372nd Infantry Regiment (Colored) (Separate) 9th Cavalry Regiment (Horse) (Colored) 10th Cavalry Regiment (Horse) (Colored) 27th Cavalry Regiment (Horse) (Colored) 28th Cavalry Regiment (Horse) (Colored) 184th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm How) (Truck-D) (Colored) 333th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm How) (Truck-D) (Colored) 349th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored) 350th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm How) (Truck-D) (Colored) 351th Field Artillery Regiment (155mm How) (Truck-D) (Colored) 353rd Field Artillery Regiment (155mm Gun) (Motorized) (Colored) 578th Field Artillery Regiment (8-inch How) (Motorized) (Colored) 54th Coast Artillery Regiment (155mm Gun) (Mobile) (Colored) 76th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored) 77th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored) 90th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored) 99th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored) 100th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored) 369th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Colored) 612th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored) 613th Coast Artillery Regiment (Antiaircraft) (Semi mobile) (Colored) 41st Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 45th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 91st Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 92nd Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 93rd Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 94th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 95th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 96th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 98th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 224th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 226th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 350th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 352nd Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 354th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 356th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 357th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 362nd Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 364th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 365th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 366th Engineer General Service Regiment (Colored) 758th Light Tank Battalion (Colored) 761st Tank Battalion (Colored) 784th Tank Battalion (Colored) 614th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun) 646th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Self-Propelled) 649th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun) 659th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun) 669th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun) 679th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun) 795th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Self-Propelled) 827th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Self-Propelled) (M18) 828th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Self-Propelled) 829th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun) 846th Tank Destroyer Battalion (Colored) (Towed AT Gun) 77th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun Trac-D) 79th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (75mm How H-D) 159th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D) 333rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 349th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 350th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 351st Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 353rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun Trac-D) 578th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (8-inch How Trac-D) 593rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D) 594th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D) 595th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D) 596th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 597th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D) 598th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D) 599th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (105mm How Trac-D) 600th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 686th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 732nd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 777th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (4.5-inch Gun Trac-D) 795th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (8-inch How Trac-D) 930th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 931st Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 969th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 971st Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 973rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm How Trac-D) 993rd Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun Trac-D) 999th Field Artillery Battalion (Colored) (8-inch How Trac-D) 49th Coast Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun) 76th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 77th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 90th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 99th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 100th Antiaircraft Artillery Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 234th Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 235th Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 318th Antiaircraft Balloon Battalion, Very Low Altitude (Colored) 319th Antiaircraft Balloon Battalion (Colored) 320th Antiaircraft Balloon Battalion, Very Low Altitude (Colored) 321st Antiaircraft Artillery Balloon Battalion (Colored) 334th Antiaircraft Artillery Searchlight Battalion (Colored) 338th Antiaircraft Artillery Searchlight Battalion (Colored) 361st Antiaircraft Artillery Searchlight Battalion (Colored) 369th Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 374th Antiaircraft Artillery Searchlight Battalion (Colored) 394th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 395th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 450th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Mobile) 452nd Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Mobile) 458th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 466th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 477th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 484th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 492nd Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 493rd Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 538th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 606th Coast Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun) 607th Coast Artillery Battalion (Colored) (155mm Gun) 741st Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 742nd Antiaircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 790th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 819th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 846th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 870th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 871st Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 933rd Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile) 938th Antiaircraft Artillery Automatic Weapons Battalion (Colored) (Semi mobile)

Hoolaman, my information is that virtually all the Puma's were sent West and many saw action in Normandy whereas most of the Luchs were in the East - few in Normandy. Production numbers for each were less than 200, more like half that. Supposedly the 116 Pz Div was the only user in the West.

Or it might just blow the muzzle end of the rifle into the next county. First thing I was taught was never to interfere with the progress of a round down the barrel.

So that's what the rings were for...thanks YD, good bit of info that.

I think the possible reactions of a crew to a crisis might well vary a great deal upon many factors. We can generalize and envision all we like, but in the end it is 5 individuals (or survivors) acting as unpredictably as any human beings under stress do. That does not mean we have chaos, more like there is a spectrum of responses that the game could choose from, some perhaps more likely than others. Soft factors are in fact a b!tch to get right, because there is no real "right" and "wrong to them, only things more likely and less likely to occur." As for crew loyalty, etc, there is some of that to consider, but when things get really ugly, it is just about saving one's self. I just have to recall the video of the famous Panther - M4 - M26 duels in Cologne and when you watch the crews bail from the M4 and the Panther, it is pretty much every man for himself once the fires start...seconds counted and they knew it. Nothing motivates humans into survival mode quite so much as fire imminent to their person. And survival mode is different things to different people.

Ditto here. Didn't have many habits from other games to unlearn, fortunately.

The M7 is an anti-tank rifle grenade, not a .30 cal AP round. Others beat me to it but you get the idea.

It was a collateral duty for the loader but the TC could also access and operate the radio once they moved it into the turret bustle from its original place next to the co-driver/bow gunner.

I did not mean to sound like I was brushing off the issue. Certainly the forum has a number of similar "you won't believe what just happened to me" anecdotes from the game, stories of events that stretch credulity and the odds. I don't want to sound like I'm "excusing poor AI behavior" or anything like that. I'm simply acknowledging that in their effort to make CM:N as realistic as possible from a historical standpoint, BFC has left open the possibility of such unlikely events happening in the game now and again. Which is not to say that a certain amount of this can be nerfed out, but in the process I hope that they don't neuter the Tac AI and make it more robotic and predictable.

The only place I can envision the Pz II in 1944 is maybe doing anti-partisan duty in the Balkans (or similar backwater) or alternately having its turret dug in as a pillbox on some defensive line...including the Atlantic Wall. Pz II Luchs may be the only exception and I don't think there were many of them in Normandy since most saw service in the East.

Anything that can happen, will happen, sooner or later. Put 100 chimps in a room with 100 PC's and in a few billion years you just may end up with CM:N.

Did you think of contacting one of the collectors on the site I posted - they might be willing to take silhouette photos for you.