LongLeftFlank

Well in that case I'd say that Assad bombarding a bunch of cities to rubble will resolve nothing; at most it will buy him 2 years of smouldering discontent and frequent terrorism. The regime has no remaining capability to do anything but loot and terrorize, the genie is out of the sectarian bottle and the longer the opposition is repressed the more likely fanatical hardline elements will rule it when it inevitably does come to power. The reasonable reformers are also the easiest to kill, alas. Witness KR Cambodia, Taliban Afghanistan and Soviet Russia. Again, I'm not whitewashing the alternative -- it's an ugly phase the Arab world will have to go through, now or soon..

I couldn't disagree more. Densely populated cities do NOT get sealed off and ruthlessly hammered with heavy artillery and tank shells and sprayed with 23mm Shilka meat choppers every day. Since 1980 you can count the number of these kinds of heavy firepower sieges on your fingers: Benghazi (interrupted), Fallujah, Grozny, Srebenica, Sarajevo, Vukovar, Basra (1980s), Khorammshar, Beirut (1982), Hama.* Before that you need to go back to Hue (or Phnom Penh) Cities engulfed in bloody civil strife (primarily AK toting mobs) create a slightly larger list, e.g. Mogadishu, Kigali, Monrovia, various towns in Congo. I have also excluded cities that became extensions of larger conflicts as opposed to a specific siege - e.g. Ramadi, Tripoli. EDIT I guess you could add Dubrovnik and Mostar amd perhaps some other Yugoslav towns to the list of sieges. I am not contesting your premise, only your conclusion.

But listen to yourself. That messy sectarian conflict is now underway and unavoidable. It was ongoing in Iraq long before 9-11; Iraqis killed by the regime in the 1990s vastly exceed those who perished in the US period. The genocidal power of an organized army, particularly with artillery and air power vastly exceeds that of a patchwork of sectarian neighbourhood militias, as dismal as the latter prospect is. The Lebanese civil war was a miserable affair but at the end no ethnic group or sect had been exterminated (although many have lost their ancestral homes). It's the "lesser" of two great evils. As to Iraq, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, it's far too early to write any of those revolutions off as chaotic failures; The sparse population of Libya is deeply tribal for example and any new "regime" must necessarily be local not Tripoli-centered. The new USA in 1785 didn't look so great either -- Virginia ravaged, Tories being "cleansed" out (some of my ancestors in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick), Continental Congress bankrupt and divided. Peaceful revolution is simply no longer an option in Syria. Pick your poison.

Well like I said, the terrorists and Salafist Sunni supremacists and would-be ethnic cleansers are definitely there, but they neither began this rebellion, nor are they calling the shots. But the evidence of my own eyes tells me the "evil government murderers" are there in force. You seem like a decent guy, but if you're Israeli or old-school Orthodox Christian, or a cynical hard-bitten Iraq War vet, or just an old fashioned America firster saying "screw 'em, let 'em kill each other", I guess I'm not going to persuade you that the opposition aren't just wolves in sheeps clothing. So we'll have to agree to disagree. This kind of ugly sectarian confrontation is brewing all over the melting pot countries of the Middle East (i.e. everywhere that isn't 100% Sunni Muslim like Saudi and the Emirate). Traditional Islam, which has never recognized a distinction between church and state, feels menaced by secular modernity, and is lashing out against it, backed by legions of the poor and ignorant. On the other hand, these people have no answers either and in the absence of real popular support they too will fall from power. But propping up Assad or any other despot isn't going to prevent this confrontation or hold down the lid on that pot any longer. Socialism never worked any better in Arab nations than anywhere else, even when backstopped by oil wealth. Over time the Presidents have turned themselves back into old-fashioned hereditary despots, abandoning all pretense at wealth redistribution and instead channeling all largesse to a narrow clique of courtiers and Praetorians. These guys are incapable of commanding loyalty other than through terror. T62s shooting. I think the building next to them is the "Consumer Centre" -- a kind of low end shopping mall

C'est magnifique! You quite sure though that the rail line took that tight bend right out of the station like that? Seems a wee tad inconvenient for switching purposes....

Having watched hundreds of these clips now, to the point I'm beginning to recognize backstreets, I can say that the takbir is not merely a war cry or sign of crazed Salafists behind the camera. It is often being chanted anxiously as a benison against evil, much like "Hail Mary, full of grace". Paramilitary (shabiha) and/or police post and BRDM being attacked by FSA forces, although the actual attack is only heard not seen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSuS06zfqtQ&feature=related

Well, if that's a hope at all, perhaps the US at least puts some Predator Hellfires on the artillery to signal that This Is Evil and bring him to the table. Implication is that the next steps involve annihilating his air defense net and forcing him to run from bunker to bunker. Otherwise, this goes on the heap of inaction with Srebenica, Rwanda,Warsaw, etc. Boots on the ground? Not necessary or advisable. But we can definitely move the needle. Oh, and I definitely hear you guys on the opposition. I'm not blind -- I see the AQ "bug" logos and hear the martyrdom music on the vids. Those scum are definitely in there and aren't going away. But that ugly confrontation can be fought out without mass bombardment of cities followed by kids dying of dysentery and cholera, which is inevitable when the water and sewage is blown up. This is just the beginning of the tragedy.

There were just three ways that our infantry could get through the hedgerow country. They could walk down the road, which always makes the leading men feel practically naked (and they are). They could attempt to get through gaps in the corners of the hedgerows and crawl up along the row leading forward or rush through in a group and spread out in the field beyond. This was not a popular method. In the first place often there were no gaps just when yon wanted one most, and in the second place the Germans knew about them before we did and were usually prepared with machine-gun and machine-pistol reception committees. The third method was to rush a skirmish line over a hedgerow and then across the field. This could have been a fair method if there had been no hedgerows. Usually we could not get through the hedge without hacking a way through. This of course took time, and a German machine gun can fire a lot of rounds in a very short time. Sometimes the hedges themselves were not thick. But it still took time for the infantryman to climb up the bank and scramble over, during which time he was a luscious target, and when he got over the Germans knew exactly where he was. All in all it was very discouraging to the men who had to go first. The farther to the rear one got the easier it all seemed. Of course the Germans did not defend every hedgerow, but no one knew without stepping out into the spotlight which ones he did defend. It was difficult to gain fire superiority when it was most needed. In the first place machine guns were almost useless in the attack.... ....when our men appeared, laboriously working their way forward, the Germans could knock off the first one or two, cause the others to duck down behind the bank, and then call for his own mortar support. The German mortars were very, very efficient. By the time our men were ready to go after him, the German and his men and guns had obligingly retired to the next stop. If our men had rushed him instead of ducking down behind the bank, his machine gun or machine pistol would knock a number off. For our infantrymen, it was what you might call in baseball parlance, a fielder's choice.

Well, centralized control for its own sake isn't worth much either when the incumbent strongmen in question have long shed any socialist/nationalist principles they might once have had in favour of open economic plunder by a tiny clique of cronies and a Praetorian guard. What hope for a better future, or even maintaining their ramshackle status quo, do the non-crony 99.9% have? Zero -- that's why they're up in arms even though they knew the likely consequences. They'd rather take their chances with warlords and mullahs, who are at least local. Do you really believe that all these explosions (this is a single panorama from 2 minutes of footage) are carefully or even generally targeted on known or suspected points of resistance? This is nothing but pure malice, intended to punish the populace for hosting the regime's enemies.

The savage bombardment continues. No military purpose whatsoever is being served here.... Main boulevard, opposite the Al Jouri mosque. Facing north. Western edge of the district, opposite the Orontes valley and refinery. Facing south. Cemetery area -- I think facing north toward high rises next to the stadium. They were regime sniper posts, but these buildings now are being rocketed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saopdamtSVM&feature=related

Good comments here. The reason bocage exists is that the fields of upper Normandy are both exposed to bitter winds from the Atlantic and very rocky. So for the ancient subsistence farmers it made sense to create walls with the rocks. Over time these became overgrown, creating hedgerows. Then tall hedges and trees were planted up top to maximize windbreak value and compensate for the cutting down of the primeval forests. Around the Renaissance, subsistence farming gave way to commerce and specialization. With demand for meat and dairy products soaring in the cities, the Norman seigneurs found it profitable to specialize in pasturage and orchards, leaving crop raising to the more fertile river plains (e.g. the British sector of Normandy). What crops you do see in the uplands are for local use, primarily as feed. As to gaps, I feel Broadsword has it right -- nearly every wall, tall or short, should have at least one gap or Hedge segment to allow infantry to cross. I usually pair the Hedge segments with Mud tiles to reflect the delay and Bog risks.

Yeah, but in high-density MOUT I want them able to split squads. I never bought Steve's reasoning on that. And I want scenario(s) to be playable with base CMSF only, so no Airborne.

On the RL side of this, I do hope the evacuation of the US Embassy means that Predators (or Turkey-based warplanes) will be arriving shortly to take down some of the artillery presently bombarding Homs. Unfortunately, I'm not expecting that for a while, as there's no way of knowing if American citizens are still in-country. Obama can't afford a hostage crisis in an election year, so I'd guess that Mr Cautious won't lift a finger until the bloodshed hits a level at which it starts to register on the American consciousness, and his GOP opponents demand action which will give him the cover to act. Unfortunately I suspect Newt thinks that the FSA are just a bunch of Al Qaeda Salafists, so it's up to Romney and he won't say anything until he wins some more states. Alas, over the next few days the people of Baba Amr may pay a brutal price for America's (and Europe's) gridlock and compassion fatigue. I'm not the kind of self-hating liberal who seeks to lay all the world's ills at America's door, but Bush staked everything on a democratic transformation in the Middle East, and Obama has effectively endorsed that by staying in A'stan. It is stupid for the West to flinch now. Intense bombardment with Katyushas based about 15km away. The FSA have no way to get at them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLYumYeujUA This is the Warsaw uprising, happening right now.

Agreed. Nearly everyone, including the Russians, seems to have adopted kevlar and the coal-scuttle shape; the old steel pots are on their way out at least for first line troops. I'll probably use all Special Forces troops for the Republican Guard, using Ryujin's mod that puts them in green camo (and flak jackets). I'm also exploring using black-garbed Fighters for the paramilitary shabiha thugs. On the other hand, the FSA "good guys" will be Combatants, using Mord's awesome ragtag pack....

Not much going on in this little clip (Feb 4), but it does give a good-on-the-ground view of the typical tactical landscapes of Baba Amr -- the cinderblock-walled residential compounds vs the 3-5 story shophouse/apartments in the commercial district. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_c-l4ohbL8&feature=endscreen&NR=1

And if anyone wants to know what an incoming 120mm mortar round sounds like (or is under the misapprehension that it makes no sound at all until it explodes), here is a YouTube clip from the rebel city of Homs, Syria, posted today.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHGc_yJJC4 EDIT: Never mind, it's a 122mm artillery round fired by these bastards. My mistake. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhkW78idP4c&feature=related

Well, after viewing 150 or so YouTube videos, including some posted in the last few days, I withdraw all my earlier glib comments. This is pretty brutal stuff and it's very sad that the West is sitting on its arse. Homs seems like a city that would be very pleasant to visit in peacetime, especially in the spring. I've posted a few links to videos that give some insights into the tactics being used by both sides right now. I haven't gone out of my way to gross people out, but a couple of these are quite nasty.... This cameraman has some stones, sitting in front of 3 actively shooting BMP using a very strange form of shoot and scoot (turn your ass to the enemy? -- maybe CMSF pathing isn't so wrong after all). They finally notice him at the very end of the clip.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLB93R3ZRl4 T72s fire across the highway and RR tracks into Baba Amr from positions 500m east at the university (the high rise apartments are also regime sniper platforms) 122mm SP guns in the same place. Uploaded yesterday. Assad is clearly determined to pound Baba Amr into submission. What a pity we can't take these murderous f***ers out -- it would be so easy with one JDAM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhkW78idP4c&feature=related Shilka spraying 23mm indiscriminately down a residential street ....uploaded today T72 brews up FSA forces (more a mob than a tactical force by the look of it) overrun a police checkpoint, including a BRDM (there are a bunch of clips of this action). The big bearded guy in the second video is the commander of the FSA "Khaled ibn al Walid battalion" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCkXCUEOzKc&feature=related FSA "spray and pray" tactics against snipers inderdicting a street. Note the chorus of schoolkids chanting the takbir (Allah u Akbar! الله أكبر) in the background. T72s ambushed on an overpass -- one seems to be knocked out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqkCpmHCf9o&feature=related Government soldiers under fire behind a burnt out BMP, with the burnt corpses of the crew (extremely graphic and not for the squeamish). Interesting. Looks like a video "Wanted For War Crimes" poster -- a freeze frame of a Syrian officer together with a video of him shooting a rebel on the ground. Mechanized infantry deployed at an intersection

Good CNN report and footage here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exWmITZb2iY&feature=endscreen&NR=1 And it looks like I'm WAY behind the bubble on current events in Homs. At least one BMP has defected to the FSA. And Baba Amr is a full-on battleground -- the commercial district at least is looking a lot more like Ramadi these days, sad to say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ighjc3VKVuk&feature=related

Uh oh. These soundtracks sound a lot like those AQ propaganda videos from Iraq. I don't speak Arabic, but I'm hearing "A'llah" and "jihad" a lot.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=7K5oTxCs90o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxkXPVjbE4k&feature=related

From me, although I just started work tonight (click the link in my sigline to get the Ramadi scenario and map). I'm taking a break from CMBN to build this scenario, then I'll upload it to the Repository and GreenAsJade's site. I put a lot of effort into building my Ramadi map and I'm glad to find a new use for it. As the last echoes of the morning adhan fade, the armoured column and its police escort parades down the leafy main boulevard of Baba Amr, watched glumly by the citizenry. By the way, you're looking at all new buildings and street (this used to be the edge of the Ramadi cemetery). I've gotten pretty quick at building these streetscapes.

A mild repurposing of my JOKER THREE Ramadi (Iraq) map will do quite nicely for Baba Amr. North on the game compass will point east, but that's a small price to pay for not laying out 25 city blocks and over a thousand buildings. Homs is a larger, wealthier and greener city than arid Ramadi (although Baba Amr is not the wealthiest district), so the makeover requires the following: (a) More 3 and 4 story apartment buildings in the residential streets (still have courtyards) ( More/better paved streets and commercial boulevards, a lot more cars © Greener grass, more deciduous trees and foliage And no, this is not another 3 year project. Better yet, it'll be playable Red vs Red using base game CMSF only.

This. And the only ways to do this are: (1) Map design to limit long distance LOS into your defense (2) Map design to limit long distance LOS into your defense (3) Map design to limit long distance LOS into your defense .... plus making NATO casualties at least 60% of the victory points for both sides - BLUE gets points for minimal casualties, RED gets points for >8%(?) Blue casualties (i.e. if your battle makes the BBC/CNN feed due to a dozen or more friendly KIA, you lose the game no matter what you've done to RED). This by no means makes the game unwinnable for BLUE (unless you do something else nasty like starting his forces in the midst of an unavoidable ambush or setting a ridiculously short game time that forces him to rush). But it requires BLUE to maneuver and assault with RL skill and finesse.

[grumbles something inaudible under breath]

Whose blood, gore and brains mod are you using? [Makes Hannibal Lechter noise] F-f-f-f-f-f-f-f!!!!

Those are excellent points. With the hedgerow banks being 1.5- 2 meters high (and adjoining lanes also being sunken), one would think this would rule out using any hull-mounted armament or AT gun, absent a prepared position including a "gap" (firing port) excavated in the hedgerow.. And even turret-mounted guns must contend with the dense thicket of trees, hedge and vines on top. Even if you can poke the muzzle through, the foliage severely resrricts sighting and traverse. A suitable in-game adjustment might be to make all AFV fire through non-gapped High Bocage Area Fire even if the unit can "see" the target. This would need testing though.