PanzerLeader

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It all comes back to Tommi's point that the Soviets were masters of concentrating their forces and the Germans were childlike with their intelligence gathering.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Steve, I believe that the Germans in Case Blue had great numerical superiority at the front, but I was talking about the huge operational and strategic reserves behind the front, especially in front of Moscow(Soviet Intelligence had thought that Case Blue would be a re-fight of Typhoon). The Germans had almost no such reserves. And this is why I say that it gives me the impression of great numerical superiority in favour of the Soviets, because they always had, from 42 onwards, a large reserve behind the front. The Germans on the contrary had a habit of throwing everything they had into the battle(Stalingrad, Kursk...), so at the front numbers may have been more or less equal but the Soviets had powerful reserves.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>BTW, one reason the Germans chewed through the prewar standing Red Army was because of their deployment. There were three major echelons, each with a specific purpose. When the Germans attacked the border regions were supposed to fall back to the operational reserve, then hold there. The strateigc reserve would then move up and throw the Germans back to Berlin. Problem was few of the border units made it back to the operational positions (roughly Minsk to Kiev) and because of that the operational line became easily enveloped due to it being under manned. The strategic reseverve was not ready, but things were really bad so it got tossed in to simply hold the line, which it BARELY did after some brutal fighting. Then winter hit, slowing down the Germans, which allowed troops from the Far East and Caucauses were brought up to replace the former stratgic reserves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I believe the Germans had superior numbers and firepower at most parts of the front in Barbarossa, but what fascinates me is the summer offensive of 1942. It looked like a classic Blitzkrieg with Panzers rolling unopposed on the steppes of the Ukraine, and Hitler even thought that "the Russian is finished". Yet when you look at it a bit closer you realise that from August onwards Stavka was almost toying with the Wehrmacht, keeping its powerful reserves behind for one crushing blow. During the autumn, when the Germans were sending all of their replacements and reinforcements at Staingrad, Stavka only sent a fraction of theirs to the city. All the rest was kept more or less hidden on the bridgeheads of the Don. This gives me the impression of a very large numerical superiority in favour of the Soviets.

Tommi, you convinced me I guess. One cannot do much against numbers. If the myth of Soviet numerical superiority is really a myth then it is a persistant one too.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>For example, during most of the war there were only 150000 Soviets facing 350000 Finns and 100000 Germans North of Leningrad.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> North of Leningrad? No Germans troops there...Or do you mean by extension the Mountain Arctic Korps under Dietl? If so don't forget that the terrain in front of Murmansk and in that general area was very unfavourable to the attacker(lots of rivers, swamps, mountains, etc.) A 3:2 superiority only in favour of the Soviets from Dec.41 to 1944 seems very astounding to me. In most books I've read it was stated that, by the beginning of Operation Zitadelle(summer 43), the Soviets had a numerical superiority of 6:1 in men(along the entire front and including operational reserves), about the same in tanks, and 10:1 in artillery. After that the gap must have increased even more. And then how come the Soviets lost so many men if their numerical advantage was so small? Germans lost app.3 million men in Russia, the Russians lost app. 15 million in the military...Quite a difference. And yet the Soviets won. Quite a lot of manpower me thinks.

Gee, I can already imagine the amount of posts that will go like "Yiipee, I got the game today and it is GREAT!!!! " "I love this game" "Has anybody tried this scenario yet?", etc. The amount of excitement on this forum for the first few weeks after the release of the game is going to be huge I suspect, almost too big to handle properly. Like the entire community will discover the game together, "hand in hand". Then it will more or less be silent again, until we hear the first news from CM2... The amount of excitement generated by the release of the beta demo almost makes me fear what is going to happen, when all these starving folks get their hands on the finished product...

Xavier, isn't CyberStratege a popular magazine in France amongst wargamers? I thought they gave plenty of advertisement for CM!

Yup, gold demo in a couple weeks' time.

There were a few clashes between SS troops and regular Wehrmacht units at the very end of the war, IIRC.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Besides the French bureaucrats in the Ministry of Art and Culture spend too much time wanking in public places to actually know what they are doing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What the ****?!?

LOL, in a sense you're right Speedy although probably exaggerating a little bit Only a little bit... 75% of the german casualties in the entire war come from...the OstFront!

There were cases of Polish cavalry charging german Panzers becasue they thought the Grmans used dummie-tanks, made of wood!! I recall reading that in a few books, but it probably only happened in the very first day of the war...

The Soviet early war AT rifles seem completely useless in Eastern Front 2, against any type of german armour stronger than the PzKpfwII. They do kill the occasional PzIII or IV, but it remains very rare.

I'll check out the book, Sosabowski!

My personal favorite is OstFront 1943. Kharkov(twice), Kursk, the Dniepr battles....even a bit of Stalingrad left

tss, I may have the answer though I'm not sure. Could it be "tullee"? I can't quite figure out what it could mean! (I speak a bit of Finnish, my mother being a Finn.) I know all these word relate to the verb "to come" and to the wind...

In Das Boot the UBoat, when it sank near Gibraltar, went down quite close to 260meters if I recall well! (just saw the film yesterday, it is, in one word, g-r-e-a-t ) I don't want to see any more submarine movies in my life otherwise I'd be disappointed. The end didn't quite feel right though. For the entire crew and the submarine to be annihilated just at the very end, when they were returning in triumph...just didn't feel right.

Aah, French may be a difficult language but it is also the most varied, beautiful, etc. BTW I really think that English is much more difficult to pronounce corrrectly for the newbie, from the spelling. "a cow", "a row"...Same letters, yet you don't pronounce the same way! "death", "mean"...etc The most difficult language to learn has got to be Latin though. I've been studying it 5 years now and still cannot read Cicero or Cesar...

Tom W, if you want such realism go out there, enlist in the Russian Army, and fight for those oilfields! Truly if a game were to become realistic to this point it wouldn't be fun anymore. If you want to be really realistic then we should not be able to change the camera's position during the film, in fact the view should stay that of a 1st person shooter from the commander's point of view! And you should have real dialogues with subordinate commanders, not giving orders to individual squads but overall orders for the entire battalion you're responsible of! Sounds like a hassle doesn't it? Oh, and if you get killed the game's over...(hmmm...maybe these aren't bad ideas after all! )

Thanks for the replies guys. This problem really gives me a headache...Why didn't they use a much smaller map? Why did they have to boast:"Hey, our map covers western Europe in its entirety and is only 1:2!" Hmmm...It will all sound even more ridiculous for Russia I guess I hope the game is worth it though! BTW how will the OOB work?

Iggi, I've now posted a question several times on the "infantry combat" forum on WW2OnlineHQ; however, although it is a MAJOR issue, nobody has any decent answer for me. I'd be very grateful, if you could give me an explanation for it, since you look like a WW2Online veteran(and the game isn't even out yet... ) To me WW2Online is a purely tactical game, although it pretends to cover all aspects of military planning. There are only 500 men per side on a giant map that is several thousands of miles wide and long. My question is: how will it be possible to play out a campaign that involved the entire german army with a force that isn't even the size of a battalion!? If the krauts decide to attack Paris, with 500 men, they won't even be able to capture a fraction of the town, considering that Paris is about 20miles wide and that a battalion cannot advance safely covering more than a few miles on its advance... This seems a serious gameplay issue to me(I don't want the campaign to be a series of inconclusive minor skirmishes), and yet the people out there seem not care about it! Thanks for possibly shedding some light on this, Iggi.

I happen to agree with iggi on this point, although it isn't a major one. Having it all in one move doesn't give more info. If one wants the info, one can access it by using the "l" key. The amount of info remains the same, it's just a matter of getting to the info quicker, thus making the gameplay less clumsy. For me this remains a WW2game, not a WW2sim. Anything to make the game more enjoyable whilst remaining realistic should be welcome.

BTW, which one had the better armour? I think it's the Panther but I'm not sure. In WF/EF2 the Panther has got 13 and the Tiger 12 only...

The ideal girl for me is surely one that could share my love for wargames and world war2...That way, no problemo! Riesburg and Chance Encounter every night before going to bed! I don't think such a girl exists though?!

Tom, the "battle" you are referring to is probably Villers-Bocage, when Michael Wittmann and his Tiger Company destroyed a huge amount of British tanks that were just lined up on the road, the crews having fun with the locals, enjoying a french breakfast...

hehe, might help there: "Below are some of the most common acronyms or abbreviations used in Chat. New ones are constantly being created. If you see one you don't understand, just ask, and if you'd like to submit one to this list, email your suggestions to ChatUKMgr, for entry in the competition at Keyword: CHATTERBOX! AFAIK As far as I know AFK Away From Keyboard ATK At the Keyboard BAK Back At Keyboard BBL Be Back Later BFN or B4N Bye For Now BRB Be Right Back BTW By The Way FWIW For What It's Worth GMTA Great Minds Think Alike IIRC If I remember correctly IMHO In My Humble Opinion IRL In Real Life LOL Laughing Out Loud LTNS Long Time No See TTFN Ta-Ta For Now! TTYL Talk To You Later ROFL Rolling On the Floor Laughing ROTF Rolling On The Floor (variation of above) WB Welcome Back WTG Way To Go! OIC Oh I See BRT Be Right There L8R Later CYA See Ya SWL Squeals With Laughter GTTL Gone To The Loo POS Parents Over Shoulder SSTM Smiling smugly to myself TRDF Tears rolling down my face GTGN Got To Go Now CON Call Of Nature TXL Thanx Loads GLB4UGH Get Lost Before You Get Hurt WYBMADIITY Will You Buy Me A Drink If I Tell You? SS ><)))"> Something Smells Fishy WI With Irony SI Sarcasm Intended OOO Out Of Order IASA I Am So Annoyed NOMDB Not Over My Dead Body YR Yeah Right! SOMY? Sick Of Me Yet? ROE Raising One Eyebrow