curih

I/O Error, RIT huh? Me too. curih

Hey TreeBurst, I didn't need any AA stuff to take care of your Hellcats in our game. I just wish I could say the same for the rest of your armor. curih (Alex) [This message has been edited by curih (edited 01-21-2001).]

I always found it interesting that the Americans and the Germans came up with such opposite solutions to deal with enemy tanks. The Americans built fast lightly armored and heavily gunned TDs (the M18 being the pinnacle of this design). While the Germans chose to take a standard tank and remove the turret to save some weight so that much heavier armor could be added. Then complementing the heavy armor with a powerful gun. Personally I find ( at least in CM ) the German designs to be more effective. Both are normally used from ambush, but I find the German ones more survivable after their position has been revealed. I'll leave this here for other people to weigh in on the topic. I'd like to see some other opinions. curih [This message has been edited by curih (edited 01-21-2001).]

Men seem to surrender for the reasons that you'd expect. When they are overwhelmed by superior firepower, though I've always been surprised that they didn't do it more often in CM. Your particular situation sounds like there was another enemy unit close by the one that surrendered. As soon as your guys looked away they tried to rejoin their comrades. curih

I've seen similar things. What I've decided about LOS is that obstacles are additive. So, for example, you start with LOS=100%. Then for every meter of woods, subtract a specific percentage. It works the same for any obstacle. That wall is probably accounting for 90+% of your LOS. I've seen the same thing when trying to target a building through trees. As soon as the target line touches it, that last little bit of LOS is eaten up and it reads sight blocked. Of course when I'm using a big gun, I don't need to see inside the house, just the front so I can hit it. curih

I don't know how the game models these types of encounters, but that much flame would suck the oxygen right out of a tank. Alex

He's not a grog. He just knows how to cut and paste. Follow the link. The 12 round clip was for training in semi-automatic mode. curih

Just thought I'd relate Jason's post a little more closely. Go becomes so complex that thus far no one has been able to write a simulation that can stand up to real high level players. But obviously the human brain is capable of it, at least to a better extent.

Making the Bungalow a small flag might work. I was also thinking that if the middle Gerpanese setup zone were moved further away from Garrisson Hill it might make the AI think twice about going all the way around, thought I'm not sure if that would be enough in light of what the AI did to me the first game played where it concentrated all 3 battalions at one end. I recall you're mentioning that part of the reason that the Japanese never got the hill was that the attacks were unco-ordinated allowing the Brits to just defend one sector at a time. Perhaps if the Gerpanese battalion entered one company at a time at 5 or 10 turn intervals. Or even start with 2 each and have the third enter late. curih

Aaahh, the tanks aren't there anymore. That would explain why I haven't seen them. That makes the dozen piats I layed out in ambush pretty useless. I've started playing v2.0. The AI has massacred me in the Tennis Courts, despite me defending them with a full company. The AI made no moves I could see for the first 8 or so turns, and it looks like it took that time to transfer the better part of a battalion from the Jail Hill side to help against the tenis courts. I'm calling in heavy arty (as in basically all of it, except 1 spotter) as the Gerpaneses advance up the hill. My line at the top of the hill will hold for a little while as so far they've been able to concentrated fire on 1 or 2 enemy units at a time, but they will most likely be overrun. On the other side I've evacuated Jail Hill and retreated to a line I set up at the beginning by using split squads to get some extra foxholes. I gave the AI a brief taste of 25pdr fire efore I fell back, and it looked to have some effect. It's looking like the sceneraio mugh have a new problem, with the AI now putting a disproportional amount of force against the 2 big flags on Garrison Hill. This may be fixable by tinkering with where the initial setup zones are. I'll let you know after I finish getting destroyed. curih

The Hetzer is one of my favorite vehicles. It's best used from a protected position do to it's turretless design. Pros - Decent Gun Front armor that is all but impenetrable from any reasonable distance. Cheap price. Cons - No turret Low ammo load pathetic side and rear armor limited gun traverse (even for a turretless vehicle) I remember one scenerio where I was playing a QB against the AI. My armor consisted of a Hetzer and 3 Panzer IVs. The AI had about 6 Sherman 75s. I lost to Panzer IV's early due to poor positioning and horroble luck. The Shermans crested a hill in a group coming into los of the Hetzer. The Hetzer got one and then suffered gun damage. It just sat there distracting the shermans and taking hit after hit (all 5 firing at it) allowing the last Panzer IV to circle around and take them one at a time from the rear. That Hetzer ricocheted well over 20 rounds at about 300m. curih

I have to say that I was turned off by the JagTiger after using it against the AI a couple of times. It may just be my luck, but when I used them they never hit aything before the third shot. That might not seem like a big deal since they have heavy armor, but they didn't have a whole lot of ammo. curih

BulletHead will most likely give you a better answer later, but from what he's told me about the setups, the Gerpanese forces are vets with the highest level of fanatacism. I've played through the scenerio 3 time and trust me, they fight to the death. I've seen squads lose well over half their men and continue fighting unfazed. When I played as the Gerpanese I can only think of one unit that actually panicked. As for the ammo situation you'll have to wait for BulletHead. curih

I can definitely see the advantage of formationsin certain situations, especially a column of vehicles restricted to a road. They tend to crash into each other a lot because they don't all have the same movement speeds. With infantry, you can kind of already do this. Put them in the formation you want them in and do a group move. I tend to use this a lot when I'm advancing through an area of homogenous terrain (i.e. the middle of a forrest) where moving each squad seperately to tak advantage of bits of cover is less important. curih

BulletHead, There was one other issue with this scenario that I forgot to mention. When I open it in CM the game beeps repeatedly, and as I've played more it beeps more. It's up to about 2 dozen, maybe more. The game seems to play fine and it only happens with this scenerio. curih

It's over. The Gerpanese soundly crushed the Brits with well over a full battalion remaining. BulletHead, you said before that the Brits main defense should be on Garrison Hill. I'd suggest making Jail Hill less valuable. The AI fought to the last man there. I don't have much experience making scenerios. Is it possible to change the values of the flags beyond just small and large? A side note; I didn't realize that 25pdr were 88mm (sextons?). They pack a whallop. I thought they were roughly equal to 105s from the effect they were having. Alex

Well, I'm a few more turns into the Gerpanese attack. The D.I.S. just feel to me. It was defended by just under a platoon and fell to a platoon with supporting fire from the tanks. The Brits appear much weaker than I expected in this sector. I had well over a company prepared for this assault, but they appear to have been unnecessary. On Garrison Hill, two platoons advancing up the rear slope have meticulously destroyed the scattered units there. The company that crossed the road has made good progress, losing almost a platoon in exchange for just over a platoon, definitely acceptable for a heavy jungle attack. The AI appears to still have some troops in the heavy woods on the side of Garrison Hill, but they have only put up spotty resistance and have mostly been isolated and destroyed one and two at a time. The Brits appear to be beaten, I expect a surrender fairly soon, there should be another 2 platoons or so to deal with first, and 2 AT guns are still unaccounted for. Appraisal: Most of the attack moved quickly. Casualties were at least on a 1-1 basis when not more in my favor, with one exception. The AI put up a spectacular fight on Jail Hill. Had the forces been more evenly balanced in the area I most likely would have lost. I estimated the AI to have had about a company on the hill. I took out his on board mortars before the main attack, but still lost about a company and half plus 4 tanks in taking the hill. Alex

That sounds like a good start. Why don't you let a few people help you test it out. If you e-mail it to me I'll happily give it a run through for you. curih

I have one other suggestion, I don't know what the Japanese were using in this battle, but I find 75mm artillery to be almost useless. It has a ridiculously long delay (considering that generally the smaller calibers have shorter delays) making it difficult to use in supporting an attack, and even after it starts to fall it has very little effect. I also still think that the scenerio could be evened out a litle by tweaking the brit artillery a little. The 25pdrs have the needed punch, but a very long delay. I think either TRPs or more experienced spotters would help the brits a lot. Alex

Well, now that I'm back, it's time to resurrect this old thread and continue my action report. First a suggestion, remove the VLs on the Pimple and Ridge near it. The AI as Brits actually tried to advance a unit or 2 towards them. Well, Jail Hill has finally come under my control. The AI defended it more heavily than I expected and hit me with one very costly arty barrage that was clearly observed (still haven't found him). In taking the hill I lost about a company, not all dead but the remnants aren't really combat effective (less than half squads with low ammo). I have 2 platoons pursuing the brits, while two more are going to hit their left flank and a full company is closing on their right rear. I expect this group of Brits to be completely destroyed. In the center of the Brit line I have a company waiting in the woods to assault across the paved road and cut off the Brits when they are forced to retreat. The tennis courts are mine. I have made rapid progress there with light losses, assaulting from the sharp turn in the road toward the tennis courts. As I finished securing that area, a company crossed the paved road a little further to the right and has started up the hill the flank the retreating defenders. This group stumbled upon the 25pdr and it was quickly dispatched at the cost of half a HMG team. Incidentaly the AI put that gun in the same place I did during my first game. My final company is attempting to circle and attck Garrison Hill from the rear. Unfortunately, they've been slowed by scattered units the AI left in there (a squad, an AT team, a spotter, and a couple HQ units). If I get a chance I'll post some screen shots. Alex

First, I'd like to say that i think a time limit is necessary to prevent the ammoless hiding sniper tactic. It is also needed to simulate the limited time you would have to take an objective. That being said, I can see your point. I don't personally like to hunt down eey last man, but if both players still have significant forces fighting over a VL (it's till in the ? state ) I'd like to be able to see who would eventually win. Taking the VL 5 minutes late is better than not taking it at all. The solution seems simple, at least for scenerios. A lot of games I've played would declare a victor when preset conditions were met, but offer the option to continue play. When the time runs out, the players could be given the basic AAR with the options End and Continue. If one or both chooses End, then the get the after action map view with everything visible. If the both choose continue, the battle goes on until a cease fire or surrender. Alternativley the continue option could tack on say 5 or 10 turns at the end of which continue would again be an option.

I've thought of using the scenerio editor, but you can't do a quick battle on a premade map. You'd have to buy the forces for both sides and it takes some of the fun ou of a game if you know the exact enemy force.

I personally feel that there needs to be an option between moderate and heavy trees. I find moderate to be so open that an attacker is limited to one or 2 approach routes (a bigger problemnow that TRPs are cheaper, ask my recent opponents ). On the other hand, the heavy option covers most of the map, leaving AFVs very limited in there usefulness. I'd just like to be able to get something about halfway in between for a quick battle. Anyone out there agree with me?

I've always had one quibble with the quick battle generator. There needs to be an option between moderate and heavy for tree cover. Moderate gives you a fairly open map, while heavy nearly covers the whole thing. Personally, I'm usually looking for something about halfway in between. curih

I don't think it's unwinnable, when I know where the Gerpanese are starting. Garrison Hill ended in mutual destruction, me using just about a company to the AI's battalion. And had I positioned my last stand there a little bit better at the beginning (I had to reposition just over the edge of the ridge, rather than being exposed on the edge) I probably would have won. On the other side of the battle I'm not so sure. On the Jail Hill side i have about a copany and a half facing 2 battalions. It would be possible to keep them off of Garrison Hill during the time frame of the scenario, but the Gerpanese would be in a position to take it basically whenever they want. I think that it's winnable only because of the fact that the game imposes a time limit. Though that may not be totally unrealistic. It simulates the Brits trying to hold out long enough for the reserves to arrive. I'm trying it from the Gerpanese side now. I've taken most of Jail Hill, though i lost the first 3 tanks that poked their noses out of the woods, and had a little over a platoon badly mauled by the defending brits and a well timed arty barrage. At the other end I'm making good progress into the tennis courts with light casualties. The MG42's are getting into position and I've been able to isolate the defenders and attack 1 or 2 units at a time. I have a company from each end making their way through the jungle in the Brits rear. I intend for them to join up and attack the center a few turns after i open an assault from the front with another 2 companies from the black deployment area. I expect to easily overwhelm the line there and effectively split the defenders. That's all for now. curih