Fishu

No-one forced you to be such an offensive turd, but you're doing a fine job. Pardon me if I don't revel in revisionist neo-nazi propaganda like you do. [/QB]</font>

Johndsalt, Zb26 and early bren had very little difference - since the bren is originated from Zb26. What comes to bigger calibers, look at the bofors, that was used by many countries and each country had it different. OZ77, Finns knocked out two KV's with 20mm Lahti ATR's :>

FHA worked well against early 2pdr

Like said above.. It is a bit inspired by Close Combat II, city fights. fairly big cities but just a handful of troops in disposal. So if makes this a small battle, you can choose your defensive area there yourself and keep attacker more guessing how the defenses are deployed. Defender can also wear down the attacking enemy with smaller losses by deploying some defenses up front and pulling them back to next 'frontline' after few shots at the enemy - more casualties for the attackers and less casualties for the defenders - while the main objective is kept and secondary objectives can be counter attacked by remaining defenders - thanks to preserved troops. So you can have small battles in there if you just get on the mind set It isn't overall that large place. Thats pretty much the analogy which the design is based on. Flexibility in tactics and suitability for different size battles. Therefore I've tried my best to keep the town variable but yet believable in the layout, to make the best ouf of the city fight... hopefully I will work it out :> Just needs to expand the town area a little bit more to make it complete. Then has to design the lesser populated areas, which will be probably hardest of it... for a perfectionist at least. The whole project begins to look more of a small battle maps glued together, when I'm trying to make some outskirt town area, rural area and also add a cemetary. Maybe I have to make it even wider Updated the screenies too.. with updated maps.. the city found the edges and some erm.. woods placed in. so much of area to cover still :> [ April 29, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Fishu ]

the short 75mm is actually more accurate than the 37mm .. However I don't know whether it is modelled into the game. Oddball, My 150mm guns have usually turned the whole area into dust by the time of 10th turn Although I prefer the infantry guns.. higher RoF and cheap Seems more accurate too :confused:

Flamingknives, If guns are produced under license, to my knowledge the case lenght doesnt need to be of same lenght. For smallarms I can name a few: Zb26 -> Bren & german version 7.62mm PPSh 41 rechambered for german stantard 9mm SMG caliber(!). Finns also rechambered lots of captured guns to their stantard rifle calibers. License built cannons from what I know are in quite many cases different caliber in a way or another.

To my knowledge, no other mass produced panzer models than I and early III's had double MG in any single position.

This is screenshot of SdKfz 233, but the model used is 231/232. 233 has open top and no turret, the 75L24 gun is right side of the driver. H39 and S35 has R35's model. PzIIIF has double coax gun, like seen on the screenshot, however game data lists only single coax & bow MGs. In an another tank there was listed "2 bow, coax" on a tank which had twin bow gun and single coax, which indicates that F has only one coax MG. F's had single coax gun only on upgunned & uparmoured conversions. [ May 01, 2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Fishu ]

I made up a QB mission as russians and set up AT pillbox at the end of road.. it was very nice road going through the frontlines! Indeed, a dozen tanks got piled up along the road, knocked out. ...albeit the pillbox got knocked out before hitting the first german tank. In half a minute period, PzII knocked it out 3-4 times from +600 meters. thats quite well for such a puny tank versus a pillbox from the range. I also had an MG pillbox set up, then T26 stumbled across it 300 meters away and knocked the pillbox out in a single shot. I replayed it just to see it again few times and every time it got knocked out within 3 hits. It's a pillbox for crying out loud! I find regular MGs and ATG's more durable... Indeed funny that a tank can have several hits into such a small hole, but miss ATG several times, which has much bigger protective plate than the firing slit on pillboxes and unarguably a hit on the shield would have somewhat catastrophic effects. Funniest is that the crews often leaves pillbox without or with just 1 casualty..?

by the way, that map is to be 1360x1360 I just couldn't find smaller one good enough for a good sized city and have space around on the flanks and in front of it for some flanking maneuvers and possible outskirt city fightning if the defender chooses so. After all, you aren't supposed to do following in the map: 1) be in the city already 2) be limited to just one approach direction at the city So it'll be a map for a fair sized battle. 2000 or so pts :> Although nothing says it couldn't be edited to a city only fight by adding some borders and then rules for the battle to not cross the borders. [ April 29, 2003, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Fishu ]

Jaykey, What do you think this little begining of a map: Screenshot #1 Screenshot #2 Just been doing it for who knows why River will be removed and the city will be expanded some more, which after the surrounding terrain will be added and topography modified a bit. Currently I'm thinking of having some small hills outside the city and some smaller and bigger forrests, so it wouldn't be too open nor too enclosed with LOS. Not sure whether I will finish it.. not sure am I happy with its begining [ April 29, 2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Fishu ]

1. with certain gun, you have better capability of penetrating the KV - Good example is 5cm KwK 39 - with bad ammo it wouldn't have a hope of penetrating KV. However it can do it, thanks to the 'good' ammo for the gun. 2. with certain tanks, you won't get the field address changed to "6ft down" after the first hit by KV. - good example being the uparmoured PzIII's, which could withstand a hit from KV, without instantly breaking up. With well designed and manufactured ammo, there would be far lesser chance of surviving a hit. In any case, KV's had higher reputation than production numbers So you'd have to make the example with more common lighter tanks. [ April 29, 2003, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Fishu ]

OZ77, What exactly does the bad ammunition have to do with gigazillion tanks and artillery prepared for offensive war? They can still have bad ammo, like they did :>

You said higher muzzle velocity? Maybe they did give it a longer shell casing and shorter projectile -> lighter projectile & higher velocity. Or soviets could be simply using shorter shell overall, which would reduce weight. for good example just look at browning 12.7mm and MG131 13mm shells - you'll see that 12.7mm is clearly longer and heavier. I've also noticed that APHE rounds in the game seems to have higher penetration figures than most commonly seen penetration tables for the guns. Maybe representing the maximum armour thickness those guns can hope to penetrate at the given angle - maybe something to do with extra spalling caused by APHE round? (like we know, unpenetrating projectiles doesn't just scratch the paint, but can make a sizeable dent and if adds a little explosion in there, it might cause some spalling) Although it could be also the globalization of penetration tables - about every major country used different methods in making up the penetration tables. US vs. German testing methods are like comparing night & day for example.. quite loose requirements for penetration in US tests versus german. I found the weights as well.. Soviet 37mm is 0.665kg and german 37mm Pak is 0.680kg This according to a single source. [ April 28, 2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Fishu ]

Andreas, You don't have to move the gun to traverse it ;P It's on 2 wheels and prolly balanced out so that you can quite easily lift the legs from the ground and traverse it. Of course assuming you havent deployed it a bad place where the wheels couldn't roll without much hassle. I don't believe theres any problem traversing ~1800kg gun on the grass. Suppose it'd be pretty much like turning a trailer with man power. Although I'd suppose it's easier, since the gun might be better balanced around the axis than a trailer.

I haven't found any good use for 75mm arty spotters - simply too low rate of fire along with the weak blast. High RoF arty is good for suppression and powerful, but slow RoF arty is for killing. If it isn't either, then I can't find use for it. I love the 120mm mortars, it is a combination of fire volume and power :> In latest fin-rus QB I used 120mm spotter along with 4 81mm in-map mortars and killed nearly 250 men with 120mm mortars and the medium mortars also nailed some 13-19 per tube. Too bad I just didn't have infantry anywhere near, or they would've killed some 100 more with ease :> but try those infantry guns sometime, they're mean.. especially on defense :> [ April 28, 2003, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: Fishu ]

Maybe they don't follow, but rotates the gun to point towards road ahead of the T34's path and then at the right moment, they shoot.

Meach, Grab some mortars, those will keep enemies down A good setup would be to have a spotter for some high rate of fire artillery piece - like mortars - and then 2-4 medium mortars of your own. Spotter would be used to generally pin down the enemies and the 2-4 medium mortars would be used to suppress the key defense locations around your assault line. HQ's comes useful with the in-map mortars. with shift, select the mortars and then as last unit, select the HQ in the group and then target some spot and the HQ will be used as a spotter. (just take off the HQ's area fire after you're done, since they don't have a mortar and you don't want to have enemies shooting at him :>) This way mortars can be kept behind cover. These in-map mortars will keep the defenses key locations down after initial bombardment and they'll quit firing when your men are in the area, smacking down the key defenses by now, hopefully :> You could try smoke too... but I haven't tried, I always like to watch the explosions :> Some of the greatest 'suppression' tools available, are the heavy infantry guns :> As german, I just love the 150mm inf. gun, really chews up infantry and puts up some fight for light vehicles/tanks as well. Only thing is that it needs about a minute of setup, after it's slowly creeped into a position. 75mm inf. guns are cheap and effective as suppression tools, however they don't cause much casualties, but keeps heads down well and can be setup fairly fast.

It's quite hard to shoot through buildings with german tanks anyway - they got APHE rounds. 37mm, 50mm, 75mm, 88mm, 128mm.. all has a small amount of high explosives, which fuse is triggered by something like 4mm of steel. I'm sure going through couple layers of wood and some interiors, is enough to set the fuse off

They axed the floor into the basement and called it a trench in house

It is indeed real sad that theres no campaign engine for a game of this type.

"Somua S-35 model places passengers properly." Hmm? does 1.03 bring S-35 model? At least in 1.02 it's R35 model, just like H39's is.

They bail out too easily of immobilized tank, when shot by totally inferior weapons. Hardly needs one or two turns of fire on immobilized tank with 20mm and its crew is about ready to ditch it and run.

Why would you care about velocity, with the amount of explosives it has?