Sirocco

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Hankey: Anyway, I only know what I've read, and the numbers say it wasn't all that hard for a fighter to kill a tank.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This has been discussed often. Put a stationary tank in the middle of an open field, with no AA cover, and, yes, it was probably "easy" to kill a tank. Move the tank at speed and try to hit it. The chances drop considerably. Put some cover into the field and give the tank some AA protection. What are the chances of a kill then? The biggest weakness of any tank is it's logistical tail, and that's what aircraft were best at killing, not tanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr: every tank appears to have some purpose and is of some value if used appropriately (except for maybe the Hetzer!).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> :eek: The Hetzer is a fine ambush weapon with a good gun and acutely sloped frontal armour making it ideal for defence. If I had to make a choice for favourite tank, I'd probably choose the Churchill VIII, too, because of it's heavy armour and punch against armoured and soft targets. I like the Hetzer on the defence as the Germans because of it's low cost and it's strength in good ambush positions.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen-x87: But does anybody have a concrete answer on the air support? I was astounished at the level of destruction it caused.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think CAS isn't modelled accurately, but BTS would disagree, and have in the past. I personally believe CAS should "shock" more than KO. And in the example you gave, you were particularly unlucky, but that happens sometimes.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CptSwampy: Hmmm... good point, Sirocco... but lets say that Sherman backs down over a hill top all on its own... how long do you want to keep your turrent pointed at the empty hilltop whilst the infantry are approaching your flanks?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How does a human memory work? As the TC you ordered the driver to reverse the Sherman into cover. You know the KT is still there, but you have infantry approaching. If you forget about the KT you might go forward again to improve your LOS on the grenadiers, and then be surprised by the lurking KT, with the only hope that it, too, has forgotten about you and is looking somewhere else. With "memory" you wouldn't stop reversing. Just because you remember the KT, it doesn't have to mean that you discount other threats. A good threat calculation algorithm allows you to prioritise them in terms of personal threat and threat to others, taking into account LOS and other factors, and likelihood of achieving a kill etc, which CM does quite well now, but an excellent one doesn't discount a threat just because, for the moment, it's no longer visible.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Hankey: I'm not sure of the ins an outs of programming, but from what I understand, creating AI with a memory recall is extremely difficult and a dodgy proposition at best.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The collective spotting system used in CM would make it extremely difficult, but when the replacement is coded, "memory" should be a part of the process. These things are always much harder to add later than they are to include from the beginning.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CptSwampy: Actually, if you think about it, it isn't a question of the AI having a "memory," it is a question of constantly (i.e., often) scanning the battlefield and assessing-prioritizing-reacting to threats. Memory is not necessary. When that tank went behind smoke, it is no longer "there" as a threat. The Kt's threat scan therefore doesn't include it. It doesn't exist.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> To show how erroneous that concept is I'll outline a scenario. You're the commander of a Sherman, and you're facing a King Tiger. You order your gunner to fire a smoke round in front of the KT, which generates a smoke cloud which blocks LOS between you. You then notice some grenadiers around 150 metres away. What do you do? Do you order your gunner to load HE and rotate your hull and turret to face the grenadiers, or do you back into cover as quickly as possible before the smoke cloud clears? If we follow the "it doesn't exist" logic you're already issuing orders to your gunner, and he's loading that HE round. How many rounds do you think you can get off before the KT "exists" again..? That's one example why CM, or CM2, needs "memory".

You can imagine the new unconfirmed spotting reports in CM2 already: "What the..? T34?!" ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

The attacker shouldn't overrun a puppchen at all. It should have fired over the heads of his screening infantry to knock out one of his supporting tanks, and then been quickly pinned and eliminated by return fire. And in point terms that's an excellent result. The difference between the 'schreck and the puppchen is the screening infantry would have probably uncovered the 'schreck team, or it would have missed the first shot and been pinned and routed. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

When positioned properly I can't think of better AT value for money on the German side - but don't expect more than one or two shots from them. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

That's very useful. I have a much clearer picture of the American defences now, which was quite vague to me before. The German attackers will have a very difficult task, which is as it's meant to be. Thanks again for all your help. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

You have my grateful thanks for your help. Those details will be invaluable to me. The scenario covers the period of 3/4 January, 1945, and through it I'm trying to capture the essence of the fighting over those two days as the 3rd Battalion of the 26th Panzer-Grenadier Regiment of the HJ attacked towards Bizory, with support from the 12th SS Panzerjager Battalion against TF Wall. I think the attack of the 3rd Bn might have fallen on both TF Wall and the 501st PIR, but I can factor that into the scenario. Thanks again for your help in clarifying the position regarding TF Wall. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

The reading I've done suggests the Germans found the Soviets hard to predict. Sometimes they would flee at the first shot, and at other times they'd stand firm even when their position was hopeless. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

I'm putting a scenario together at the moment, based around the fighting between TF Wall from 6th Armored Division and the HJ during January, 1945. I've been looking for details on the composition of TF Wall without finding much information to clearly identify it's makeup. Does anyone have any information on this unit? ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

Well said. Good luck with Combat1, Rob/1.

I think you knew I was having problems when the 75mm AT gun "turned off" it's ambush marker and engaged infantry, allowing your Sherman to escape, or when the HMG refused to fire at your onrushing infantry which then proceeded to overpower the crew... I certainly knew my luck was out when your Sherman then strolled through an AT minefield and came out the other side intact... ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

I had a 75mm AT gun refuse to fire on a building for two whole turns in a recent PBEM game. The LOS was good. I read another thread about this kind of thing a while ago, so it does seem that there's a problem. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

That makes sense. When I read an account of the operation that was just mentioned in passing by the author, without going into detail as to why it happened. I suppose it shows the enthusiasm for airborne operations that an air-landing division was basically tied down on garrison duty. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

I'm wondering why 22nd Air-Landing Division went to Ploesti while 5th Mountain Division went to Crete. Was it more suited to the terrain, more elite, or..? ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

"We had approached the state of mind when we weren't thinking as hard about the risks as we possibly had done earlier." - General Roy Urquhart Combined with the tight schedule, that was fatal. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

With a name like Babra I should keep quiet. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

With the AA guns having been removed from Deelen after the RAF raid on 3 September - making the airfield temporarily unuseable - gliders could have landed north of Arnhem, near the bridge. That would have increased the likelihood of success of the operation, and could also have opened the way for Deelen to be captured relatively intact, perhaps. But that's hindsight. The name "Sirocco" was inspired by the fan used by Churchill tanks, which in turn came from a wind that blows across North Africa and into Europe. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

Well, my source contradicts that, but I can see problems with both plans. I doubt the Germans would leave Deelen in a useable state, for example. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

The plan was for 878th Aviation Engineer Battalion to construct landing strips north of Arnhem for use by 52nd (Lowland) Division. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

...Or to be put into punishment battalions. ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent

"Within a month of the German invasion detailed instructions were given for partisan detachments to be formed to sabotage bridges, roads and railway lines and blow up German supply dumps. A regional organisation was to be established in areas already overrun... Eventually a special department in the Central Committee was set up to deal with partisan affairs, with special cells at the Front and army level." "At first the groups had difficulty in reaching the minimum viable strength which was fifty men, but by the spring of 1942 in some areas where the front line had broken down detachments numbering thousands were formed into regiments and brigades." "Lightly armed security divisions (Sicherungsdivisionen) were formed to safeguard the road and rail links upon which the German forward troops depended for their supplies. Some of these divisions were to play an important role in Belorussia in the summer of 1944." "By the summer of 1944, the partisan movement had reached its peak of development and efficiency. Post-war accounts state that in Belorussia there were 374,000 partisans divided among 199 brigades and that they had in addition some 400,000 reserves to call upon." "The aim of the two inter-related operations, 'Regenschauer' and 'Fruhlingsfest', was to destroy the area of the Usachi Partisan Republic to the west of Polotsk, Vitebsk and Orsha. The partisans were holding strong positions behind minefields and even had substantial air support..." Hitler's Greatest Defeat, Paul Adair Well, we already have Sicherungsdivisionen, in CMBO, and it wouldn't be the Eastern Front without partisans, now would it..? ------------------ "He belongs to a race which has coloured the map red, and all he wants are the green fields of England..." - Joe Illingworth, Yorkshire Post War Correspondent