von Lucke

My opinion of the accountants who run Sierra only sinks lower every day... What idiots! Sid Meier proved a well done Civil War game can sell. And I, for one, have been waiting a long time to see a Grand Strategy version of the Civil War. Oh well --- maybe by 2011.

von Lucke: From Hans von Luck (one of the more talented, complex, and honourable men to be found in any war), and Lucky (pronounce the "e" in the Continental manner), because I'm infamous for my "Beginner's Luck" at any game I play.

Ah, le Francais! Sure, they fought the Allies after the fall of Paris --- they blamed the Brits for running out on them, and then for sinking what was left of their navy in Dakkar! IIRC the French AF even bombed targets in Gibralter right after the surrender --- I think this is a good indicator on what shape Anglo-French goodwill must have been in even before things fell apart. On the other hand, Free French troops under commanders like Juin and LeClerc accounted quite well for themselves in Italy and France. But, as seems all too usual with the French, personalities (ie; DeGaulle)seem to outweigh abilities...

Uh, my name's von Lucke, and I'm a recovering Teutonic... That said, I have to admit that I... um... like to play the Brits! There, I said it! I'm out of the closet --- and I feel so free! Free I tell you! I'm sorry, but it was just too easy popping a whole column of Sherman's with a single Tiger! I... I... needed the hard stuff! I needed more of a challenge! And what more challenge is there than taking a squadron of Cruiser tanks (unsupported by infantry, of course) in a mad charge against a single well dug-in 88, and actually having one tank survive! Call me a masochist, but there is nothing like triumphing in the face of overwhelming odds! Pip, pip, lads! For King and country! Close your eyes and think of England... [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 04-11-2000).]

It's about time! With the prevalence of cheap man-portable AT weapons, and low-siloutte AT vehicles, and just sneaky-ass AT choppers, armor is the last combat arms field I'd want to serve in! The traditional "Tank" has been dead for years, just nobody with four stars on his eppaulettes wants to admit it...

Sure Athlons are nice --- if you have *exactly* the right combination of mobo, video card (with a little Registry tweaking), power supply, etc. Too much effort for a lazy bastid like me. The new PIII E's now (the 0.18 micron CPU's that have the 256 L2 cache running at core speed)--- that's the ticket! They're fast and Intel is selling 'em cheap because they're easier to make than the traditional Katmai PIII's. (Oh, and don't confuse these for those crap Coppermine jobbies --- I'm talking about the 100 mH FSB model E's).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Kettler: Guys, The tactical game itself seems quite interesting, but it looks like the tactical game will not be integrated with the strategic game, at least in the initial release. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, hell! That kinda changes the whole flavor of the game, doesn't it? I thought the big selling point was that the Strategic machinations you employ as a Shogun-wannabe would then be translated into the appropriate Tactical battles using your pet samurai.

Thanks for the update Wild Bill! Damn, once SP:W@W and CM come out, I may never leave the house again

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by iggi: I reinstalled Steel Panthers. Why not give it another try after playing CM Wow, now I rememered why I dropped it for command and conquer. Boringggg. Zapped of the hard drive for the last time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Funny, I had the opposite reaction (insert C&C for SP and vice-versa).

Hey Hundminen: Is PE difficult to learn?

Humpf! I must say it's rather disenheartening to see so much Steel Panther bashing going on here. Oh, hey, don't get me wrong, I think CM is the best thing since diesel powered Shermans and IMHO it will completely renovate the sagging computer wargame genre. But c'mon now: How many of you Grogs out there thought the original release of SP was the best thing you'd seen since -- oh maybe -- Panzer General? (I would have said Panthers in the Shadows, but I'm trying to be more mainstream). I, for one, played the s**t out of SP when I first got it --- and will probably do the same to SP:W@W. If for no other reason than I'm curious about what renovation work Matrix Games has done on SSI's venerable code. And, realisticly, we're talking apples and oranges here: Sure both CM and SP are wargames based on WW2 --- but after that the similarity ends. SP is a top-down, IGO-UGO, 2D, HP damage, traditional EP-based long-campaign, regimental level game that covers most of WW2. CM is a true 3D, battalion level, individual-plot / simultaneous movement, physics-based damage, simulation that covers a specific time-period of WW2. I know which one I prefer (CM), but that's not going to keep me from enjoying SP:W@W when it's finally released. So there

Ummmmm, Pirate old man, perhaps you should read the Manifesto at the Battlefront.com main page before someone less polite than I(and there are many lurking about!) reads your post...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee: If you want to talk about quality of opposition, how about what the U.S. (and others) soldiers were up against at Monte Cassino? We went up against some of the very finest warriors that Germany had to offer. Not to mention some of the most defensible terrain imaginable. Definitely no cake walk. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Everybody (Kiwis, Indians, Ghurkas, French, Algerians, Moroccans, Brits, Americans, and finaly Poles) got their asses kicked at Cassino. If anything, the whole operation serves as a cautionary tale about not becoming overly target fixated: Kesselring had given direct orders that the monastary be respected as a historical and religious site, and was left un-occupied --- that is until some New Zealand general got it into his head that the place must (because of it's commanding view) be a German OP. It wasn't until we bombed the hell out of the place that the Germans moved in --- and only then because the rubble was the only source of cover from all that bombing / arty! The monastary had already been out-flanked by French and American crossing's of the Rappido, and Kesselring had given the order to withdraw, when the final battle took place in May. But by then it was too late: The Poles lost over 850 dead and 2500 wounded in only six hours of fighting during the final assault. They also went through something like 15,000 tons of ammo --- and even so, some units were on empty after they beat back the last German counter-attack. IIRC total casualties for the entire campaign were something like 200,000 on all sides --- yet, ironically, the troops who took part in the Monte Cassino action were often called "D-Day Dodgers" by those who landed in France a few weeks later... [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 04-02-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owen: How can you even blame the British Army's performance at Arnhem for Market Gardens failure, the 1st Airborne held on for days after anyone else would have collapsed, I can't think of an example where a group of troops performed better in WW2. Quote coming up here 'The British had run out of all anti-tank weaponary, as a result the Germans were driving tanks up to buildings demolishing them at point blank range, but still they wouldn't surrender' (taken from A Bridge To Far: might it be added the book not the film) The failure of Market Garden lay in Montgomery's over optimism, and a lack of intelligence of the German forces in the area.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I will always remember an annecdote given by one of the 82nd Airborne's battalion commanders about his experience with our British compadres during Market Garden: Once the 82nd had ably achieved their goals in the face of great opposition (and I'm refering to the rotting assault boats supplied by the British here!), this particular officer became somewhat concerned that the expected British relief column had yet to put in it's scheduled appearance. Fearing some mishap had befallen our gallant allies, he comandeered a jeep and headed South in search of the overdue Brits. He soon came upon a line of British tanks (Shermans, I might add!) parked in a neat row down the middle of a small Dutch hamlet. Hearing English accented voices coming from a nearby pub, the Airborne Major leaped from his jeep and dashed inside: He was greeted with the site of a group of British officers sharing a few beers with a couple of winsome Dutch lasses! Doing his best to maintain some semblance of military bearing (ie; standing there bug-eyed with his mouth hanging open in amazement), the senior British officer present noted the look of astonishment on the Yank's face, and inquired something along the lines of "Oh, I say, our tanks are still parked out front, aren't they?" The American officer declined to give the exact content of his reply, but needless to say, I'm sure it was less than polite... And as for hanging on in the face of overwhelming odds and almost certain defeat, might I suggest you read up on what happened at a little Belgian town named "Bastogne"? But then, the 101st fared a bit better than the 1st, didn't they...? [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 04-01-2000).]

I've also read that the one functional SturmMorser Tiger unit assigned to the West also carried Goliath's as part of their TOE. I guess the theory was if you couldn't blow it up by brute force, try a little finesse...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seimerst: the residents/warriors of Somalia were burying their dead for days. Most of what the public remembers about the incident was video of the body of the crewman being dragged throuhg the dusty streets. What you didn't see were the hundreds of their own dead and wounded.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As much as I loathe being off-topic (and knowing this sort of thing leads to a lock-down) I have to say this: Don't you think that there's something wrong with this statement? After all, Somalia was supposed to be a Peace Keeping Mission set up by the UN to safeguard food supply points and distribution efforts. How do we go from that to house-to-house searches for weapons and trying to kidnap local leaders? (And before you flame me Seimerst, know that I'm a vet of the US military too --- and was active during Somalia --- and I thought the whole mission was a bad idea then too: It was like sending the Army into NYC and telling all the various gangs that we were there to restore order by taking away all their guns and see to it that food stamps would be issued properly... How do you think the Crips and Bloods would respond to that? Exactly!).

The thing that most struck me about the "movie" was near the end: When the Brit flamethrower team lets loose on the block-house. Anybody else notice how the heads of the troopers in the foreground all turn to follow the stream of napalm as it arcs onto the bunker? Verrryyy cool!

Under the heading of Successfully Suppressed Guerilla Uprisings: The Phillipine Insurrection (1899 - 1903) could be judged a success on the part of the US and it's Armed Forces. After all, it took the Japanese invasion (a "real" act of war) to rest ownership of the place away from us...

They didn't nick-name the M16 (the quad-.50 mounted on an M3 half-track) the "Meat Grinder" fer nuthin'...

Ha! You should see what they have to say about it over at evilavatar.com!

My vote goes for 17 September 1940: The date Hitler put Operation Sealion on permanent hold. Germany could never win a two-front war, and the majority of the OKW (including Hitler) new this. Their only chance was to take Britain out before the inevitable attack by the USSR (and it was inevitable --- Stalin was working on an operable timetable for the invasion of the Reich for as early as Fall of '41), or the involvement of the USA (also inevitable, thanks to FDR's goading the overly agressive Japanese). Once it became obvious that the Heer just didn't have the capability to take out England, the invasion of Russia was the only possible outcome --- and that way led to disaster. But the German war machine was overcome with inertia, and had to keep moving to stay alive... As far as the Japanese getting arms from the Germans; they did, IIRC, receive several pieces of varying sorts (including AT guns, subs, aircraft engines, blueprints, etc.), but the logistics of supply made anything but token presentations almost impossible. I do recall reading that the Japanese where rather impressed with the Tiger (and who wasn't? ) and even bought one (at double the list price ), but due to having no lifting capacity available for delivery, ended up leasing it back to the Reich... I wonder if the German crew had to wear hachi-maki's and salute the emperor before going into battle?

Yah, this sounds like a Use-Net poster awright. Also sounds like he works in marketing --- for Sierra! Wargaming is a niche market to start with, so expecting a game like CM to pull in the numbers a Quake 3 would is patently unrealistic (would that it wasn't!). It's like comparing the mass-market built cars of Chevrolet to the hand-crafted finese of a Rolls-Royce. You have to know your target audience --- but maybe he didn't learn that in marketing class...

Hmmm. The problem seems to be that people are expecting artillery effectiveness based on a wider operations area than CM encompasses. On a company / battalion front, during an actual engagement (not prepatory to) I wouldn't expect to see a hail of steel falling from the sky. I seem to recall one account (from "Company Commander"?) where a frantic American CO called repeatedly for pre-targeted arty fire to his front, and only received 3 miserly 105mm rounds per mission! Frankly, all those POTD's of Naval Arty have me worried. I'd rather see my battles decided by what I have on the field, then off...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tss: Actually, there was no way how Operation SeaLion could have succeeded unless the Brits decide to surrender. Failing to achieve air superiority was just about the least of German problems.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh, I quite agree with you: Operation Sealion (if you could go so far as to call it an "operation")was a morass of miss-cues worthy of a Three Stooges movie. Where Hitler failed was in allowing the Brits to evacuate the BEF from Dunkirk virtually untouched. He somehow thought this act of magnanimity would cause the Brits to seriously consider his peace terms. Funny, how through a singular act of humanity, the man who has become synonimous with evil managed to bring about his own eventual downfall. But, military history is a series of "what if's" heavily influenced by luck. Had the dominoes fallen in a different way in 1940, alle wir konnten Deutsch im augenblich sprechen --- oder mindestens Fionn wurde!

All American: That commander was Hans von Luck, and he had been chomping at the bit to launch a counter-attack from the first minute he found out about the landings. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, the Panzer Divisions in the Caen area where being held in strategic reserve, so it wasn't up to von Luck to give the go order to his own regiment (a sore spot with von Luck for years after). But in the event, when the go order came down 24hrs later, he almost succeeded... But to reinforce my own point , check out how von Luck's quick action near Cagny during the opening phase of Operation Goodwood almost single-handedly stopped the British push on Caen... [This message has been edited by von Lucke (edited 03-12-2000).]