SS_PanzerLeader
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Posts posted by SS_PanzerLeader
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Simon Fox
QUOTE:
Now SS I understand your perspective but your suggestion that people who are participating in a competitive pursuit are not competitive unless they are in a ladder made me ROFL. Given the extreme nature of the example you are using, where you were clearly thrashed, it is hardly suprising that some people are characterising you as a sore loser.
Well I'm glad you are amused, quite frankly I'm amused that you find non ladder play or tournament play competitive and by the fact that you find this to be some extreme example
what is so extreme you've lost me there
As far as your last comment - It was uncalled for, I plainly stated I was being beat
And acknowledged RONS playHad you bothered to read the entirety of the thread, you would have realized this wasn't the context of what the thread was about. But evidently you would rather take a crack at me as OB&G and ELVIS did and then adding a smiley to make it look better.
The whole thread has been about the AI and nothing to do with losing except for the fact the AI called the game. Evidently the facts of the situation doesn't matter though as you've formed your own opinion already
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SS_PanzerLeader.......out
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OB&G lol god how can you convery so much hippocracy in one statement
ANd I quote
I didn't mean to get into flame wars, but whining after the computer decided you were beaten when IT decided that you didn't have enough resources to change the fact much, then that's where it gets childish.
My god IF that isn't trying to start something
Whatever man I'm tired of trying to talk to you; your narrowmindedness shows in numerous other posts including the one on CANADA
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Hi arron
you said:
However, since morale is simulated, you don't actually get the final say at either the squad, platoon, or scenario level. If you did get the final say at the scenario level, why not the squad level?
Simple because if I manage to lose morale on all my squads on an individual level then I will lose anyhow, It should not be a cut and dried decision by the AI on a BROAD sense.
The morale checks individually ahve major impact on individual squad actions etc, but to make the FINAL say that is jsut not right in my book. THE germans were getting their asses kicked prior to the BULGE their SUPREME commander ordered them to attack- they went -period - they didnt win but they gambled thats are real as it gets.
as for your statement here -
QUote:
As for doing 'major damage' with your remaining Hellcat: the only reason you know you can roam the battlefield is perfect OOB knowledge about your opponent, because you've played the scenario before
That same OOB is what got me in such bad shape in the first place
KWAZY DOG
You said
QUOTE:
I dont see why this is such a big problem in competitive play. If I was playing and had a game where I got beat up and my troops surrendered on me Id take it as a lesson learnt, not a feature I want disabled
HAVE you played many ladder games?
then you said:
You say that as supreme commander you want the final descision as to wether you troops surrender which I understand from the point of view you are taking but realistically that is not an option a commander has.
again look at who does the surrendering at the end of it all _ THe SUPREME COMMANDERS he tells his men to lay dowen their arms - that is how wars/battles end end - Otherwise troops could find themselves getting fragged or put in front of a firirng squad.
My points are made for COMPTETITIVE games only, a player should have the right to surrender when he sees fit in this style game
How are you gonna handle the players that use
their ammoless observers for cannon fodder - this aint realistic but It will happen
VON SHRADD np man man yah the GOLD sounds good think we had already planned onthat anyhow didnt we
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STUKA!!!!!!
where ya been bud ? what happened to our game?
YEs I do like to bounce back in the endgame, a favorite thing of mine for soem reason ;P
HEhe you are right that is why I didn't flame BTW
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OB&G again I will stress this I am not interested in changing anything for normal play - but for multiplay this should be implemented as an optiont hat can be disabled
Since I dont get reinforcements until turn ten in LD the whole thing is alosing battle until the reinforcements come - They are dropped ina KNOWn location
If this same kinda thing happens in COMPEtitiVE games people are gonna start hating it TRUST ME - I'm a vet of CC2 with Probably a thousand ladder games under my belt, and this is a problem for comptetive play IMHO. When the game starts making final surrender decisions people WILL find away to exploit this in scenario design I guarantee it, Just like you will have people trying to figure out how to hack CM. A harsh reality but fact
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That was meant for OB&G since hes decided to get nasty with someonelse
Sorry for the confusion Tom
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Tom W ,
Yes basically if my units indiviually are getting the crap kicked out of them, I see the reasons why they surrender
But comptetitively If i have units that are holding their own and giving me some chance to salvage a better level of defeat, this OPTION to fight on should be mine not the AI's
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OB&G
I will avoid voicing my true thoughts of you
Basically I'm making a valid point in relation to comptetive games, You have already demonstrated your inante ability to piss people off, including people that have worked hard for this community and BTS. I will not sink to your level as my submarine is in the shop; so try somebody else
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SS_PanzerLeader.......out
[This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 04-18-2000).]
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Krazy Dog,
I'm not bothered by the fact you don't agree with me - i don't think everyone will, especially those that really have no interest in competitive style play
You said this:
BUT I really feel that even from a competitive standpoint, realism need to be considered as this is a wargame.
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Realism is greatly simulated, but in a cometitive game I should have the final decisionof surrender.
Also I had my troops way back and hidden, to avoid be slaughtered, it didnt help - and having to wait til turn ten to get reinforcements, with them appearing in a known location downt help much either. Then for the Ai to take control and surrender my forces when I am doing well with the remnants is lame - sorry But in ladder match points matter
For realism, troops should refuse to move if their morale is that low - not let me get behind enemy lines waste two tanks and then pull the rug out
If the AI let me get the tank behind enemy lines to take out 2 enemy tanks their mroale was good enuff - why the Heck would it fall further with two tank kills ? cmon! do you see my point ? :eeK:
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SS_PanzerLeader.......out
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OB&G considering the quality and tone of your posts, I will take your last comment as further reinforcement of the opinion of you I had already developed
No offense taken -
OH BTW KRAZY my hellcat wasn't just sitting ther with his infantry around crying to mama ;P
He was behind enemy lines running rings around the enemy (literally) and getting enemy tank kills - if they were that damn sacred they shoulda REFUSED TO MOVE in the first place
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Kwazy dog you are looking at things from a realisitc Grognard standpoint
nothing wrong with that if thats your cup of tea, my point is for COMPETITVE play only, I see final surrender as the SUPREME commanders OPTION . the SUPREME commander being ME ------------------
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lol you watch wrestling!!!!!!!!!!
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SS_PanzerLeader.......out
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Tom,
Unfortunately no game is ever free from cheating and this will be no exception, although it is admittadly a sad state of affairs. I love playing ladder games because most players are prety kool and the competition is exciting, but there it that small majority of A**(&holes that will be up to no good
. Even if we find away to eliminate this problem the ultimate act of surrender belongs in the hand of the player NOT the computer in a Competitive game IMHO
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Moon Ihad already taken one flag _ they would have to move intheopen to retake it should I decide to hold it - And you desire to play it out was mine also that is mypoint
I was doing VERY well with that tank - and was quite upset after smoking two tanks and about to remove several halftracks from play that I was denied this opportunity
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I was facing SS troops that had been in combat - I dont think they were in sad shape in any way
BUt.. they had lost ALL their tanks, where i still had mine full to the brim of HE (hadnt used any YET) This tank had also fired AP four times with three kills
My 12 man squad had never fired a shot and i had a mortar in Ok shape with 23 rounds HE
I also had some guys on the brink of death
BUT I was BEHIND him with my tank
and running freely and unopposed - My odds of winning - virtually none - odds of a draw - slim but not impossible, odds of reducing the victory status to minor were much better , and the odds of dropping it to a major were huge As far as the scenario manipulation goes
in comptetive play like it or not we are gonna draw some shady characters sooner or later -
this is an angle for Scenarios to be designed around,
for example
IF A player has a scenario set up similar to LD and you play it blind - odds are GREATLY in his favor if he is deceptive in representing the game. Even with full disclosurethe odds and still are better for him. I'm sure this morale issue can also be a problem by playing the angle of troop quality.
If you morale falls quicker because you didnt happen to catch the fact that he had crack troops and you had Conscripts, all of a sudden morale is the deciding factor in the game not your play . I'm sure as time goes on more deceptive means of exploiting this will surface, and unfortunately honest players like myself will eventually be taking the brunt of this. The argument that we are all nice people here won't wash either because there are players out there that will have NO PROBLEM taking any angle they can to win, It sucks but its fact.
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LOL@PETE NZ
Hear hear
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Oh BTW I ain't whining _ i feel this is a legitimate concern for competitive multiplay
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Capt Foobar,
I think you misjudge me
If my squad surrenders its one thing and to me a necessary part of the game, not interfering with competitive playability. BUT>>>>>>> for ALL my troops to throw in the towel and the AI just surrender my game That jsut doesn't wash with me - Wait till some of the more unscrupulous players get to playing laddersand they start EXPLOITING this problem in their scenario design_ I Think you will be awful pissed off when ya get a sucker map
Trust me this comes from seeing it happen in CC2, I know this is a different game butthere are alot of similaritiesas far as playability
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SS_PanzerLeader.......out
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thanks collin
I think most CC2 players are gonna see my point here too
When you play competitively the ULTIMATE decision to end the game should be the players and players alone
I am an honorable player IF I have no AT I will surrender
If I have an empty tank I will surrender
IF I have ammo I have a chance
And games that go down to the wire are fun
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Moon that open top hell cat just punched through enemy lines and took out two tanks - Im aware of its capabilities
Elvis yes I knew you were taking a shot at me and quite frankly I believe you would take an opposing viewpoint against me no matter what the issue
As far as this statement went
If that was all you had left against me you wouldn't even see my infantry to "even the score" They would protect themselves in postions where they could not be seen to be on the recieving end of HE
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try gaurding some VLS and be hidden at the same time lol - sorry No matter what you think had the auto surrender not been there with a full squad and and some remnants I coulda reduced the point spread, obviously you are'nt an X cc2 ladder player or you would probably see my point, that is if you cared to
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Elvis obviously you are still sore about the last incident based on yoru snipety remark regarding "you got lucky" lol
what ever man
THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH LUCK or anything else this had nothing to do with ron either
THIS IS about a feature which I don't care for
So don't insinuate anything nor try and stir up something that simply isnt there
THIS HAS nothing to do with losing at all other than the fact - I could've reduced the win - and in a competitive game - which is what I and many others are interested in - a total loss vs a minor or major is a huge difference
It wouldve been very unlikely I would've won - and RON PLAYED A FANTASTIC GAME, so keep your inuendos where they belong, to yourself
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SS_PanzerLeader.......out
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Quote:
Sorry, but IMHO, this sounds to me like a made dash for a victory hex at the end of a game. You had a CHANCE to reduce the level of victory by sending your men into what they considered a hopeless situation.
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Sorry a tank full of HE and that has taken out two enemy tanks in the previous turn doesnt constitute a mad dash for a victory hex !!!! I coulda cared less about the hexes
I had enuff HE and AP TO DO MAJOR dmg without the enemy having squat to stop me - Unless i got stupid and parked
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QUote
Black Sabot:
Does your morale go up with the arrival of reinforcements? I've always been too involved in the battle by the time they arrived, so i've never noticed. If not, then SS has a point.
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I just went back and reexamined the turns
opn turn 9 morale was a whole 29% on turn ten the hellcats arrived morale was 39%
a whole big increase of 10% cmon how the heck is that supposed to help - when they are dropped in plain view to be destroyed?
The were dead at the end of the turn and morale again plummeted
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quote:
Scott C :
Black Sabot -
Yes, your morale does go up when reinforcements arrive
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Scott 10% is not muc h help bud
taht gave me a whole minute of morale improvement - then Three turns later after I destroyed all enemy tanks I surrender? sSOrry but gaminess or not this isn't right for competitive play. I'm sure when this starts happening in ladder games there willbe more complaints about it.
For individual squads in close combat situations I can see the surrender feature but for an OVERALL GAME surrender - you will not convince me that it is valid for multiplayer as anything but an option
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QUOTe:
major tom
"What are oyu going to do??
BLEED ON ME!"
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I hardly think taking out a stug and a tiger back to back with a tank is bleeding on my opponent - he had no armor left other than some ammunition deficient halftracks, I was on turn 13 IIRC that gave me alot of time with HE to even the score
You seem to forget this is STILL a game, and on a COMPTETIVE level the surrender decision to end the game should be mine alone
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SS_PanzerLeader.......out
[This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 04-18-2000).]
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Sorry Scott _ i still disagree - I took out two tanks and a VL in the two turns after losing two HEllCATS its simply doesnt make sense to have this in here For multi play
YOU are all into realism _ im looking to play at a different level IE Ladder and this is a handicap period
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Moon Just reran the turn
MY morale sucked @13% BUT
MY win chances were 32% and my opponents only 40%
Now my prob is taht in LD I dont get reinforcements till turn ten - My morale is gonna suck regardless because we are WAY outnumbered- If the AI takes over and ends the game for ya, you dont get the chance to redeem yourself
For scenario design this will be anotehr handicap - no reinforcement crucial scenarios for multiplay - also MORALE will be something you are really gonna have to watch out for - In designed scenarios
Again This is something that I believe should be optionally disabled for multiplayer
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SS_PanzerLeader.......out
AUTO SURRENDER???????
in Combat Mission Archive #2 (2000)
Posted
KRAUT
I was having trouble following your post are you for The Way it stands now
IE the AI will end the game for you in amultiplayer game whether you like it or not
Or against having that donw to you during agame?
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