rich12545

I don't pay much attention to this stuff since I've just played a simple ww2 ruleset. But you do know that you can easily adjust these values and for missiles?

For me there are three things to do and the game will be essentially finished. After that an expansion with some of the stuff mentioned by StellarRat plus maybe more maps and scenarios. Those three are: 1. Bugs squashed 2. AI. Basic expand, attack, etc plus don't do stupid stuff. Each unit does what it's supposed to do. Fix the see all ai. Nothing fancy is necessary for the basic game. 3. Open up the terrain. Allow for additional terrain features (mods). In the meantime I'm like Scott, I'll play a little once in a while. And wait until it's done.

Mark Kinkead is the guy who heads KBS. He has mentioned that sales haven't been stellar and has had to take a full time job that keeps him travelling so he really doesn't have time for anything. The game is pretty much done though, no real bugs that I know of and no new features that need to be added. But if you want to play solo against the computer you'd better get my mod. Out of the box the AI doesn't work. Mark still answers posts and emails but essentially production stopped some time ago. Even though there's not much going on in the Yahoo groups, I think there is still a core group of players just as there is for the Perfect General (KBS) which I also play from time to time. I've played Empire more than any other game over the years. Simple concept and game play and just plain fun without having to frazzle your brain.

The rehash company you all are talking about is KillerBee Software. The dev got the rights to Empire Deluxe and made a new one that works on modern machines. Then he made an Enhanced version. There is really not all that much similarity to EoS. It's like comparing an Escort with a two ton truck. They're both vehicles and that's about it. But those Empire games are very good as far as they go. Several months ago I promoted EoS on the KBS forum (now shut down due to too much spam). And I promoted it on the Empire Deluxe Yahoo forum. People know me there since I made a major mod for the Enhanced version. Don't know how many bought as a result though. I understand the reasons for this blitz but am disappointed because it will slow down and maybe, in the long run if it doesn't pan out, halt production on the AI and a few other major things and the game might never really get finished. Or maybe it will take a loooooong time. That kind of thing has happened before with other games. It's a niche within a niche game and probably will never sell well as long as it stays here only and keeps the DRM. I've always thought this game had a lot of potential and in the last month or so got hopeful that within a couple of months it might finally reach that potential.

Last month I finally bought a game on Steam and have to agree. They do great marketing. If anybody can get your sales up they can. 50% of a lot is better than 100% of not much.

Nice map but whoever starts around Cairo will have a big advantage (assuming this is a standard map with production staying on). Maybe turn it into a two player scenario with one player starting in Cairo and the other with three or so decent starts around the map. Or maybe simulate Torch. How long did it take to make the map? How would you be able to get reinforcements at the correct times? Maybe a year ago I discussed how I think EoS would be a great platform for making all kinds of terrific scenarios. The game hasn't been ready for it but I think it's getting close.

Yep, I agree here.

Thank you for another very nice patch. I noticed you weren't able, at this time, to remove the "know all ai." Do you have any idea about how far into the future that will be?

It's odd there would be all those flame wars here. Other companies have arab-Israeli games without any of that. Matrix is coming out with a middle east game on their campaign series and Shrapnel has one in their ATF series. I've never seen a flame in either of those places.

It's not that EoS is so complex, it's that every map is random. Anyway, Brit has said he wants to change it. I'd just like to know about when.

I never played civ so didn't know that. That's one of hundreds I guess. Can you give us some idea when this will be corrected?

Sorry but I still don't agree. I've never even heard of a war/strategy game where the ai has perfect sight. And the ones I play have decent ais so it can be done. It galls me no end that the ai can see all my units and I don't believe random patrols is the answer. Hoolaman, I see that you play Shock Force. Does the ai have perfect sight and just sends out random patrols?

Yes it is a cheat but a very minor one. It's more like a balancing cheat. Since everybody's ability is a bit different it's impossible to make an ai to suit all gamers, most games have this kind of thing including EoS already with novice, veteran and elite. I don't really know the difference between those three. I think it was posted once maybe last year but it would be nice to see it again. The two guys who made the original Empire Duluxe said their goal was to make the game challenging but expected the player would win most of the time. I think that's a good axiom for any game.

I don't buy "most games." I typically buy games from companies like Battlefront and Matrix plus a few other like companies. These are war/strategy games. So we can't compare to those. I'm comparing to, for example, Empire Deluxe Enhanced. EoS is by far the better game if you look at features. However, EDEE doesn't cheat at all. The ai follows the same rules the player does. The game was unplayable out of the box because the ai was so dumb. However there was a script that could be modified. And the unitdb could be modified. I did and made a mod that made the game very playable. The ai does a good job without cheating. If it's too easy for you then modify production rates and combat advantage. That's easy. However, EoS is a much better game due to its features and that's why I'm here instead of there. What needs to be done is make the ai better. I've been harping on this for months. Frankly I think a lot of time was wasted working on fluff. But now it looks like Brit is working on the ai in earnest and a lot is getting done so I'm very hopeful. I'm probably going to continue playing simple games until the ai is working properly and put up with it being "all-seeing." I've asked how long this is going to take but Brit hasn't answered that. If it's going to be months I'll do something else and come back. If a couple of weeks I'll just continue playing. It would be nice to know though.

You could be right. I don't expect miracles. Just a decent ai playing by the same rules. If that can't be done, I'll play something else. It would be a shame because I like this game and it has a lot of potential, but it's not the only game out there. I've been waiting a year for it to show its potential but now I'm not so sure it will.

I still think the computer should follow whatever's in the ruleset. Period. However the human plays, the computer should play.

The thing with a game like EoS with random maps is that it's virtually impossible to script unit's behavior. So the best thing is to give units general orders that can be used on every map. Expand, attack, retreat when overpowered, move to repair, escort, etc. The ai won't do all this as well as a human of course and that's why you should be able to give it some advantages as outlined above.

I don't agree. Basic in a wargame is to have the ai start equal with the human, by that I mean using the same rules. This is wargame 101. Then you can have options to make the ai easier or harder with little things such as an advantage to production and/or combat. For example you can make production + or - 5%, 10% etc. You want to adjust it so the human wins most of the time but has to work to achieve it. That was the working theory behind the original Empire Deluxe and it still is true. That makes for a fun game and, after all, that's the object of us playing games. One thing you don't want to do is allow the AI to see all the units. It's just way too frustrating. Maybe that works for you, but for me it's a game breaker. In fact I'm going to play other games until this is corrected and that's the reason I asked about how long it will take.

Yeah, I wonder how long it'll be before Brit will be able to do it. Looks like there might be quite a bit to do first.

The AI should, essentially, play by the same rules as the human player. There could optionally be slight, maybe by percentage, production and/or combat handicaps to the AI to make up for the human advantage in thinking ability.

Why? Because it's ridiculous. I'm not trying to be confrontational either but playing a wargame against a know all AI isn't right and takes away a lot of the fun, for me at least. So if a lot of people want to keep it the way it is then maybe make it an option. We should be able to play the game against a decent AI without it having any, or maybe a few optional minor, advantages. If I want to try and sneak a sub past a couple of ships to get the transport, it's not even conceivable to try. And there are so many other examples. I've really been playing the game off and on since I got it, waiting for the AI to improve. Now that it's finally getting better I've been looking forward to spending a lot of time with EoS. But not with the AI this way.

Wondering if you'll be removing the ai cheat that allows them to see all units in the game.

Ok, now I understand. Will this be changed?

This ai sighting thing is confusing. Either the ai can see all other units or they can't. If they can, then the sighting distances in the ruleset only apply to the human player because the sighting distances for ai players is unlimited. Brit, can we please get a clarification.

And the time it takes can be adjusted in the ruleset.