rich12545

HAHA I was wondering if now that I'm not going to post about the AI anymore, everybody would let it go and move on. I wondered if some would feel compelled to write parting personal attacks. I mean, it takes a real @sshole to do that. I knew there would be some though. Slaver and emptyT Is that it? Will there be more? Or there only two @ssholes here? Time will tell.

More from emptyT in the other thread: Ok I can't contain myself anymore. Rich - if you weren't such an obnoxious, self opinionated, know-all fool you would have a friend you could play with and we wouldn't have to put up with your bitchin here!

The AI will never be fixed, we're going around in circles and this is taking way too much of my time. But Brit can be sure that any time EoS comes up in a forum I will explain how the AI works. I wish someone had done that for me a year ago.

Actually if you were to poll wargamers you would find a huge majority agree with me. I've been on many forums and have read a lot of posts about FOW. Except for fools defending Brit on this forum, every single post agrees with me. No AI FOW is a game killer and hardly anybody would have bought this game is that was known ahead of time. Maybe that's why Brit never mentioned it until a year after release.

Sorry, but you are just pathetic. You're introducing stuff that is totally immaterial. Shock Force started poorly. It is now a super game. My quote was from a long time ago. If you had bothered to read this thread you would know it is obsolete and why. SC2 has FOW. I have no problem with cheats that are user controlled. Since you did not play the games in question you really don't know but show your ignorance by posting about them anyway. I can't mention games that have an all-seeing AI. Other than EoS I don't know of any. Here are some games that I play. From BFC Combat Mission Strategic Command 2 TacOps From Shrapnel Games ProSim Series From Matrix Games Battlefront Academy Harpoon Battleground Campaign Series Advanced Tactics Operational Art of War From Killer Bee Empire Enhanced Perfect General All are from indie devs or small groups. All use Fog of War. ALL these devs were able to implement FOW into their games. And all the AIs are good enough. They all could do it. But Brit couldn't. He should have done it from the beginning. He never should have made the game without FOW. Or, since he did, he should have let us know so we could decide if we wanted to buy it that way. FOW is so important it should have known from the beginning. Since you brought up what I previously wrote about EDEE you either didn't read it or were incapable of understanding what was written or are dishonest and brought it up anyway. We all know Brit isn't going to do it. That's beside the point. The reason you people keep posting is you resent I complain about it. So you make excuses for poor Brit. It's too much for him. Blah blah.

Name me 10 wargames that have an all-seeing AI. Why do I have to continue repeating myself? I guess it's because you people don't pay attention to what's already written. Other games including Empire Deluxe do just fine with the AI using FOW. So can EoS. What part of this don't you understand? I can't think of a single wargame that's currently available that uses the all-seeing AI. How about CMSF? SC2? TacOps? Those are three that I play sometimes and they do NOT use an all-seeing AI. I could go on with other companies. Everybody else does it but you people keep saying it's too much for poor Brit. He can't do it. Do you people think poor Brit is incapable of including in his game what everybody else does? Do you think he's so stupid he just can't do it?

This has to be the dumbest post yet. Haven't you noticed that my posts are in response to others? You people keep beating the dead horse. When you people quit posting, I won't be responding and it will be done.

You really don't have a clue. This has already been answered. And it was $35, not $20. What does it entitle me to? A playable game. A wargame that includes a decent AI.

Actually you don't seem to get it. Brit explained a couple months ago what needed to be done. I don't remember the entire post but I recall it was mainly getting the units able to search. I already posted this. It would take some effort but it wasn't a huge deal and Brit indicated he wanted to do it. You need to read posts before making incorrect statements.

I agree with a couple of points. The AI is a very difficult thing to improve. However, nobody is suggesting Brit spend any time improving it. It seems pretty good as is. It's the all-seeing AI that needs to be removed. And units will need to actually search. That's about it. And I don't see it as real time consuming to change. I agree the game will remain as is. It's a shame. It makes the game unplayable to a lot of people. Just like there are many people who won't buy a game with DRM, there are FAR more who won't buy a wargame with an all-seeing AI. It is truly a game breaker.

When the game first came out I asked about this. There was some technical problem but I don't remember what it was. Brit said he could fix it if people wanted but it never became an issue. Because of the slow expansion inherent in the game I never cared much. I calculated it is about the same size as 80x60 in EDEE.

This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Have you not been paying attention? Sorry to be snippy but I've covered this ad infinitum. I'm getting sick and tired of you folks answering my posts obviously without reading them. I've said over and over that Empire Enhanced has a good AI and it doesn't cheat. I'm satisfied with it. It is a similar game to EoS. Just what is the problem with you people? Again, sorry. But please read what I say before posting wrong conclusions about me.

Brit brought up Galactic Civilizations so I did a search on their forum. FOW was asked when GC2 was in development. Here's the answer. "The AI still has to deal with the fog of war. That was the case in GalCiv 1 and it will be more so the case in GalCiv 2. Whether the AI will know the locations of yellow stars or not is of some discussion still." So Brit was wrong. He also said a lot of games cheat. We're not talking about that. We're discussing FOW specifically. NOBODY has brought up 10 wargames where it can be proven they don't have FOW. Everybody just says most games cheat in one way or another. I don't know of a single other wargame that doesn't have FOW. Maybe there are a few somewhere but they are in a very small minority.

A while back in another thread we were talking about what it would take to implement full FOW in the game. Brit stated a few things that would need to be coded and then he could simply implement it. Couldn't find that post but it mostly had to do with the units being able to search. It's just another capability that the AI needs to be given. It's something pretty standard that you find in a lot of games. Here's what I said in another thread about the AI and what I'd like to see: "AI. Basic expand, attack, etc plus don't do stupid stuff. Each unit does what it's supposed to do. Fix the see all ai. Nothing fancy is necessary for the basic game." The AI already does most of that. The only thing it needs is to search. A general search capability could be programmed. How much searching particular unit types do can be in the ruleset. That's it. Not a big deal. Brit, in his post, said: "How long will it take to make the ultimate AI that players are clamoring for? I don't know. A long time." "I'm looking at hundreds or thousands of extra hours" Nobody is looking for "the ultimate AI" at all. Brit is referring to something different from what we have been "clamoring" for. So, in fact, Brit did NOT validate what you have been saying. Except in your dreams. Nice try though. Empire Enhanced doesn't have "the ultimate AI" that's for sure. But it's good enough and it doesn't cheat. You don't have to worry that if you're sneaking your sub toward a battleship that it's seen and the BB will simply sail the other way. That's what ruins a game like this. It completely eliminates tactical play. You can't invade the enemy's island without him knowing it and overwhelming you. I'll say one more time, If EDEE can do it then EOS can too.

And for the record. Any personal attack I made was in response to one. From the beginning of my inquiries in this thread I was attacked as being petty, the game was fine, Brit made lots of updates and I'm being ungrateful for even asking. When I responded in kind then you, and one or two others, started upgrading your personal attacks. My assertions were never outrageous or incorrect and I challenge you to prove they were. There weren't rational responses to my assertions. Several times there were outrageous responses and I challenged them. Nobody ever responded just as I don't really expect you to respond to my challenge about your outrageous assertions in the post above. Your posts have been, for the most part, personal attacks and opinion that you wanted accepted as fact. You didn't challenge my statements with fact, just more bs. There is absolutely no excuse for your behavior in this thread. It has been disgraceful. Your post above is an example. I made no attack against you personally. Yet you used a general statement where I did not mention you to make one against me. When you stop with the personal attacks against me, you can be assured I will do the same against you.

Brit, this is my last post on this subject. I'm glad you finally posted to let us know what's going on. If you would have done this days ago it would have saved a lot of hassle. Communication is very important and goes a long way toward resolving conflicts. 1. Re Galactic Civilizations, I play that game off and on. It has a number of different levels. There's one where there are no bonuses. Go one way and the player gets some, go the other way and the AI gets some. I wouldn't be surprised if the AI has other cheats on higher levels. But it's player choice. If I discovered the AI was all-seeing on all levels I would quit playing all together. 2. When discussing cheating AIs in this thread we're concerned specifically about the all-seeing AI, not no cheating whatsoever. In some games that might not matter but in one like EoS it is very important. I've never heard of a wargame that has an all-seeing AI. You mentioned Civ had it, but only for a while, it was fixed. Maybe there are some but I never heard of them and I've been playing for 30 years. So there can't be very many. 3. I still believe that if Empire Enhanced could do a decent job with its main AI and not cheat, so could similar games. 4. In EoS with the all-seeing AI, I'm not as concerned with the strategic play as with the tactical and how well the AI reacts to situations. Perhaps you could give some sort of an idea how the AI would react to a couple of specifics. Your answers would be very helpful. 4a. Suppose I spot a battleship with a search plane. I send a sub, which is a couple turns away, after it. Would the BB recognize the threat and send destroyers if it has them handy, or have the BB flee if it doesn't? Or would the BB not react very much? 4b. If an AI controls an island and I send an invasion force from the other side, would the AI react by sending a bunch of land units to intercept? 5. This thread has been an eye opener for me. Simply posting my opinion, which goes against the mainstream, left me open to personal attacks by infantile posters. 6. I can understand your financial situation. I was in business all my life until I retired a few years ago. It doesn't always go the way you want and it can be difficult to get going again. Fortunately you have a skill where you can get a good job even in the current economy. 7. I'd really appreciated it if you would take a few minutes to answer #4.

A few days ago I wrote a ticket and asked for a refund, even a BFC credit. It was turned down. I really have nothing against Brit. I'm sorry the game didn't sell better. I posted in other forums promoting it so I did my part. I don't blame him for getting a full time job. There are things I'd like to see in the game like a terrain editor that will never happen. That's life. What I don't understand is his unwillingness to work on the AI in his spare time and leave on a positive note. Instead he's saying screw you I'm leaving. Frankly that doesn't sound like him but maybe I don't know him all that well.

I respectfully ask that you post on the forum what all it would take to fix the all-seeing AI, about how many hours it would take and why you won't do it in your spare time.

What are you so tired???? NOBODY forces you to read this thread. You don't like it? Don't read it. But don't tell me what to do. I PAID for the game. If Brit and BFC refund my $35, I'll disappear from this forum. In the meantime it's my money and I want some answers.

The real problem with this thread is Brit is AWOL. Why should he post when he has his groupie fanboys to do it for him? WHERE'S BRIT????? He should be here explaining, honestly, how many hours it would take to fix the AI and why he is refusing to do it in his spare time.

The only person who's obnoxious is you. You consistently come up with meaningless posts that are nothing more than personal attacks. No content. Just enough to show what kind of person you are. Kind of shallow and bitter. Nobody forces you to read this thread. If you don't like it, if it's so obnoxious to you, feel free to stay away.

If you like Empire Deluxe you might want to go to Killer Bee and pick up EDIE. It is simply a remake of Empire Deluxe for modern computers including a somewhat better AI. The dev got the rights to Empire Deluxe so was able to do this. I played it for a couple of years before EDEE came out and it's a good game.

The interface with the side bar has been the subject of many complaints. I never saw it as a problem. Personal taste I guess. There's a lot of stuff you can do with the sidebar once you learn it. If you're going to play the game against the computer, you'll need my mod or you'll play against a dumb as a rock AI.

Empire 2 wasn't exactly an Empire game regardless of the name. It was a wargame. It wasn't 4X. First you had Empire Wargame of the Century, then Empire Deluxe, then Empire Deluxe Internet Edition and then Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition. I played them all starting 20 years ago. I look at EoS as a cross between EDEE and Civ, a bit closer to EDEE though. Better graphics. More features. Potential to be an all time great game. In spite of shauny's rants about my posts I really like EoS. If I didn't I wouldn't be so insistent Brit fix it and make it the great game it can be.

Correct. The AI knows where all the cities are. It knows where all the best cities are. The AI knows where all the player's cities are. It knows where all the player's units are. It knows where his battleships are so it can his subs. It knows where all his subs are so it can send its destroyers. And on and on. Do you get the picture yet?