Pak40

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen-x87: Mensch: I am not arguing the merits of a fighter\bomber in a 5000 point game. I was expecting it fully. But I am wondering why they would wait 15-16 turns to show up on the scene. And why they only showed up after the Tigers and Panthers started moving. That seems a bit strange to me. Gen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you think the fighter pilot really knows what "turn" it is? I think BTS programmed the airstrikes to be random. I once had an air attack come in closer to the end of the battle than the beginning, but that was a user made scenario. I think the QB battle scenarios are very random, though. As for the planes coming in one or two rounds after your tank was moving, its pure coincidence. In no way does the computer AI cheat.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deanco: I'm surprised no one has thought of this. [ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: deanco ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You shouldn't be surprised because I think everyone has already thought of it. Actually, when I first got the game last summer and was getting used to the controls, I tried selecting several squads and pressing CRTL-1 but was disapointed when it didn't work. I thought for sure this would have been coded since it was such a common feature of games where you need to control multiple units.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moriarty: Unfortunately, that turn was pretty early in the game and I no longer have it. I would agree that the round could have missed hitting the target, but I would think that a 105mm round would still be rising 786m out. Maybe not, I don't recall the effective range of the 105mm HOW and, the more I think about it, the angle of the barrel at firing would have a lot to do with it. Maybe t he ricochet formula in CM kicked in? [ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: Moriarty ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If I recall my physics lessons correctly , the round technically starts falling towards the earth as soon as it leaves the barrel (horizontal shot). But in your case the gun was slightly elevated, so the shell was on the rise when it left the barrel. It's hard for me to say without seeing the movie. The effective range of a 105mm How is several thousand yards (or a few miles), but that has nothing to do with this.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moriarty: Pak 40, I do recall some discussions of that. And, I readily admit that the second occurrence could have been just a shot that went long. I'm at a loss to explain the first one if it wasn't a skip as I don't believe the trajectory of the howitzer would have tagged the building if it had just missed the aiming point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It is possible for a gun to hit something out of it's line of sight, especially with the low velocity guns like the Howitzer. Picture the round missing your targer high. The round will keep going but drop a little, possibly hitting something out of it's line of sight. Usually these rounds land off the map but I can totally see a round actually cresting a hill and then dropping a little to hit a building. I'm not sure if this is what happened but it's interesting. Do you have the movie file? I'd like to see it if you do.

Interesting occurance but I don't think that was a skip shot. I asked Steve a long time ago if the physics model was going to allow skip shots off the ground because it was a rare tactic the allies used to try and kill a Panzer. The "skipped" AP round would bounce off the ground (since the angle of deflection was near 180 degrees) and strike the more thinly armored underside of a Panzer. Anyway, Steve's answer was no.

I don't think it matters if your tanks are moving or not, or if any of the enemy units have seen your tanks. Planes make a flyby to look for a target. They can usually see any vehicle on the battlefield. Sometimes they don't see the big targets, often they do. Im not sure if hiding your vehicles in trees will help them stay undetected. Two possible reasons for your 75 FO having a 5 min. time: 1) Quality of the FO - Conscript 75mm can take up to 7 minutes 2) Changing your target - If you place the target area then change your mind and place it in another area far enough away, then the computer tacks on extra time. Sometimes it's enough time to bump it up an entire minute. Keep in mind that not all FOs are created equal. If you buy 3 Regular 75mm FOs they will all have slightly different times, so there is some randomness.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen-X87: Um I beg to disagree. I have played about 8 QBs agains the CPU in the last 2 months. 4 of the times they had Fighter\Bomber, one of the games they stuck around for over 17 turns killing almost everything I had before I had to go somewhere I only wonder how many more turns they would have stuck around. ????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry, I stand corrected. I play mostly small QB under 1500 points and never see the computer pick airstrikes. I can understand that they'd be more common in larger battles. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erwin: Ahem... Replies have been v. interesting, but re original question - Does anyone actually know what % probability there is that the plane(s) turn up, and is it a different probability for Axis and Allies????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The answer is nobody knows. I doubt if BTS even knows the exact percentages. You can bet, however, that certain conditions do make it more possible to see airstrikes. It seems like larger QB point values do affect the decision making of the computer. Weather will probably also be factored in as well as Axis or Allied sides. Also, the month of the battle might play a part of the decision making process.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen-X87: Um I beg to disagree. I have played about 8 QBs agains the CPU in the last 2 months. 4 of the times they had Fighter\Bomber, one of the games they stuck around for over 17 turns killing almost everything I had before I had to go somewhere I only wonder how many more turns they would have stuck around. ????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry, I stand corrected. I play mostly small QB under 1500 points and never see the computer pick airstrikes. I can understand that they'd be more common in larger battles. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erwin: Ahem... Replies have been v. interesting, but re original question - Does anyone actually know what % probability there is that the plane(s) turn up, and is it a different probability for Axis and Allies????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The answer is nobody knows. I doubt if BTS even knows the exact percentages. You can bet, however, that certain conditions do make it more possible to see airstrikes. It seems like larger QB point values do affect the decision making of the computer. Weather will probably also be factored in as well as Axis or Allied sides. Also, the month of the battle might play a part of the decision making process.

Maybe I'm getting a little too picky about my OOBs but isn't the U.S. heavy weapons Company supposed to have the water cooled .30 machineguns and six 81mm mortars? Currently it has 8 air cooled .30s and one 81mm spotter. The spotter's ammo decreases 4 rounds at a time, so I'm assuming that means only 4 mortars are firing. Please excuse me if this has been beaten to death already.

Hi Steve, It looks like you've got your hands full with all of these questions but I have to ask this one: What kind of improvements will be made to the Campaign System? Are improvements being made in the Setup Zones between battles? For example it was very hard to create an objective oriented campagin such as the Battle for Arnhem Bridge. The current setup zone system puts reinforcements on the wrong side of the river. Also, the computer AI always wants to move towards the opposiste map side instead of attacking towards the bridge (I think Victory Flags would solve this problem) Thanks

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erwin: I know someone has figured all this out years ago... What is % probability of air arriving for axis and/or allies? How is combat resolved once it arrives.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I doubt you will ever see airstrikes in a QB against the computer, I have yet to see any. If you buy an airstrike for yourself you have no control over when it will arrive, but you will know it's close when the plane makes a flyover to assess the battle and look for a target. You will see the plane's shadow on the ground and hear the engine. You have no control over what his target is. Usually it's a tank or some other juicy target but sometimes it's your own men. After the main attack they usually have a mg strafe or two to kill some infantry.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erwin: I know someone has figured all this out years ago... What is % probability of air arriving for axis and/or allies? How is combat resolved once it arrives.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I doubt you will ever see airstrikes in a QB against the computer, I have yet to see any. If you buy an airstrike for yourself you have no control over when it will arrive, but you will know it's close when the plane makes a flyover to assess the battle and look for a target. You will see the plane's shadow on the ground and hear the engine. You have no control over what his target is. Usually it's a tank or some other juicy target but sometimes it's your own men. After the main attack they usually have a mg strafe or two to kill some infantry.

On a related subject: If you're going into a QB as the allies and you know or think there is a chance of damp or wet weather, then buy the tanks with HVSS option. This nifty track extension lowers the ground pressure for the allied Shermans. I'm not sure if the Brits have HVSS though.

Computer Games Online has fairly good write ups on wargames. They have better overall coverage of wargames than PC Gamer. They've recently overhalled their web site, so there arn't too many of the older reviews up on the site. Hopefully they will put them back up in a few weeks. www.cgonline.com

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: 12 - Heavies - K. Tiger, Jdgtiger, or Jdgpanther (your choice, subject to date) 11 - Tiger Is 8-10 - Panthers 7 - Jadgpanzers or StuGs (your choice) 4-6 - Panzer IVs 3 - SPAT only (Nashorn or Marder) 2 - SPA only (Hummel or Wespe) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I like this idea. It kind of reminds me of the forces that you could select by a card deck in the back of the original Squad Leader manual. Can someone break down the odds based on this type of system? I know a roll of 12 is 1/32 which is 3.125%, but what about the others?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: [QB]Since people are being intentionally dim, I will explain the real problem. People take Panthers all the freaking time. Not 1/3rd of the time they take armor, more like 3/4 of the games. QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmm, I've played quite a few PBEM and a few TCP/IP games and I've never played against a Panther. I myself have only used a Panther once. What I do see a lot of are Hetzers. They're all over the friggin place. Hell, I use them quite frequently. But, if I'm not mistaken, they were quite common on the battlefield historically. BTW, nice rant. You must be related to Dennis Miller

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warmaker: Hmmm... interesting way of doing nightfighting. A different approach...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> yes it's interesting but it's also a little gamey IMO. Sharpshooters don't run around with radios to tell their CO's where the enemy troops are. But in defensive situations it was common practice to have small listening posts with phones/radios ahead of the MLR. Maybe BTS should make a listening post unit?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson: Reading the posts (tactical suggestions) on this message board gives the impression that there's usually at least two mortar FOs in each and every moderately sized QB force. These should historically be available as one per (on map) battalion. - If the force on map is a single company (or less) with some reinforcements they may have access to the battalion mortars, but not necessarily. - Two companies from a battalion will most likely have the mortars as well. - A large combined arms force of a full infantry battalion reinforced with a tank company will still only have one mortar battery available. Cheers Olle<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This probably depends on the nationality of the force but in general I'd say that the availability of 81mm mortars should not be dependent of the size of the force. In the U.S. Army just about any platoon leader could act as an FO. All platoon leaders had radios, which communicated with their company commanders who in turn communicated with battalion by radio or phone. So, in theory and in practice platoon and company commanders requested artillery on their own, without the use of the official FOs. CM doesn't model the use of radios so they have to use FOs as a subsitute. This is unfortunate because if a FO is killed then the 81mm firepower is useless, which isn't very realistic. Also, this negates the real effectiveness of multiple spotters: Company commander A calls down fire missions on turn 4 and 5 then Company Commander B calls down fire missions on turns 8 and 9. The ideal situation for CM would be to have multiple FOs that use the SAME ammo supply. This would simulate Company and platoon commanders calling the battalion 81mm fire control. Only one FO could fire at any one time but you could have each FO in a different part of the map so that they can spot different areas. Or you could use one FO as the backup in case the first one died.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joeski: Flamethrowers & Wasp's. Also get a HQ unit with +2 stealth and sneak in small increments. Everything else above is solid advice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh yea, I completely forgot about flamethrowers. Finally these buggers come in handy with the close quarters of night fighting.

Everything GenSplatton said is good advice. I'll elaborate a little more on my tactics: FO's are are hard to use. In a night battle there's a fine line between dropping rounds on the enemy and dropping them on your own guys. If you have a FO, chances are that you'll have to target areas out of his line of sight which will take the rounds a lot longer to come in. For this reason I'd stick to offboard mortars because of their smaller time to impact. Onboard mortars are useless. Buy lots of infantry. I can't stress that enough. Even better are the squads with mostly automatic weapons. All firefights will take place within 100 meters and automatic weapons pack a bigger punch at these ranges. Squads with satchel charges are good too. Keep your platoons tight, as if they were in the middle of a dense forrest. Machine guns will have to be even with your squads to be effective. Armored units are a mixed bag. I've had great success with open top vehicles, such as halftracks with the .50s, but they have to advance 5-10 meters behind a platoon of infantry to keep them safe from enemy squads. I think these open top vehicles have good sighting capabilities and the .50 adds good punch to an infantry advance. If you loose one, it's not too big a deal because of it's cheaper than a tank. Tanks are ok, but like I said, always have your infantry right in front of your tanks. Keep the tanks near the visibility limit. For example, if the visibility is 80 meters then keep your tank about 70-75 meters from known enemy units. This will allow your tank to fire but he can make a quick exit if a zook or shrek suddenly appears. Always keep your tanks unbuttoned if possible, this will help him spot sudden danger. German SP guns are blind, I wouldn't buy them. Tanks and armored cars with quick rotating turrets are better, this will help them quickly fire upon targets that appear suddenly. AT and infantry guns are almost useless. Only buy them if you know the enemy is going to come down a narrow passageway. Also expect to loose that gun. Zooks and Shreks should comprise most of your AT capability. Infantry with satchel charges, gammon bombs, and rifle grenades are usually effective againse lone or loosely supported vehicles; but don't rely on them as your only AT defense. Mines and Barbed wire could be very helpful if you're on defense. These will be harder to detect in the dim light. [ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Pak40 ]

On maps where there are a lot of trees, I always buy several mines. These can effectively block narrow passages and force the attacker to bring his vehicles through routes better covered by your men and AT guns. To beat the multiple humbar situation, it would have been ideal to have a couple of armored cars with the 20mm cannon, the fast rate of fire and the fast turret could easily kill all of those pesky scout cars. Large AT guns arn't too good against fast vehicles like you said and neither are fausts, shreks or or other rocket AT guns.

It goes like this: I was brushing my teath this morning while getting ready for work. With nothing better to do while I brush, I read the label on my bottle of mouthwash. It says "Kills Germans that Cause Plaque" :eek: I do a double take and read it correctly the second time: "Kills Germs that Cause Plaque". I'm Obviously playing too much CM.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monty's Double: Remember, they are still filming Lord of the Rings down there, so right now there's about 10,000 Uruk Hai just waiting to kick some foreign ass. Be afraid.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOl! I bet one napalm bomb could wipe out an entire clan of Orcs trying to storm Helm's Deep. [ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: Pak40 ]

More experienced FOs will only bring the rounds in quicker. There is no change in blast power or round accuracy. And of coarse a better FO will be harder to break or route.

I like the "surprise" factor also but I'm definitly going to play the CMII demo. I feel that feedback from us players will help make the final version a better game. If BTS didn't release a demo of CMBO then the game we are all playing today would be a lot different. Therefore I think it is in all of our best interests to play and test the demo when it comes out.