rune

More detail, Of the T-72B, NOT counting the t-72B1, just the plain T-72b, there are NINE variants. Searchlight, snorkle, Boron mats, gunner's site, and found it! The T-72B variant 2 with the smoke dischargers as in the game. Here is a list, and I included the T72b1. T-72B - Fitted with thicker armour on the turret front. T-72B [Variant 1] - Schnorkel moved to rear bin and extra turret bin fitted T-72B [Variant 2] - 7+5 sgd on turret front T-72B [Variant 3] - Boron mat on turret roof and drivers roof T-72B [Variant 4] - RHS turret stowage moved back and MG ammo box reduced to one T-72B [Variant 5] - Boron mat on the drivers roof is extended to cover the drivers hatch T-72B [Variant 6] - Fitted with larger gunners sight T-72B [Variant 7] - Fittings for ERA and larger gunners sight T-72B [Variant 8] - ERA fittings and small gunners sight T-72B1 - Main Battle Tank fitted with 227 ERA segments I will continue to see what I can find out about the armour. I have one US Army source that says the T72A was the Dolly Parton, and the T72B was the Super Dolly Parton, but will see if I can dig up more and hopefully get more information from the blueprints. As a no hard feelings, IF i can get a set of blueprints, [Russia get paranoid still about things like this] would you like a copy? Will be my way of apologizing for thinking i mentioned one thing at a time when I didn't, which again, apologies for. Rune

Because I deal with one issue at a time. My apologies, as I thought I had said that, but going back and reading, apparently I had not. However, Let's look at Janes, their database says "as reported by Russian Sources". OK, Blueprints from the factory and the fact several sources state there were early and late versions of the T72B which included Janes by the way. Also you completely ignored the fact theat these same sources state the laser moved from right to left. More information I found is posted in a later message, read it first. Admit you are wrong about the smoke dischargers, and I will see what I can dig up on the armour. Let us deal with one issue at a time. For that my apologies, as I should have stated I was dealing with one thing at a time, which I did not. Rune [ March 10, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: rune ]

Another German source on their T-72s, look at the smoke dischargers. http://www.reserve-info.de/kpanzer/t72.htm Rune

Follow-up, asked the guys, and they will confirm but they think the blueprints was from the UKBM Nizhny Tagil factory, but they are getting them out to confirm. Hopefully later today I'll be able to specify either that one or the Malyshev HMB Plant. Rune

Or try to go to the blueprint, and even Janes which states the smoke dischargers are on either side. Janes says, and I quote: T-72B (1985) This version was developed under the designation of the Obiekt 182 and later the Obiekt 184 and was first seen in 1986. Its turret has a new armour package that provides a much higher degree of protection than any previous model of the T-72 MBT. In addition the glacis plate is provided with 20 mm of appliqué armour. Late production vehicles also have an anti-radiation layer on the hull roof, which is also fitted to some T-72A vehicles. Mounted either side of the turret is a bank of 81 mm forward-firing electrically operated smoke dischargers. Smoke dischargers on BOTH sides of the turrets. You locked into one source, but don't realize the T72B early production and late production were different. Even the side the laser was on changed. Tanknet.org is a great source, but photos, blueprints, and Janes itself say otherwise. Rune

Well, I have several sources that state differently. These sources are Russian, so who is correct, a Western source or the people who made the tank? Sources include: www.armscontrol.ru which is the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology Center for Arms Control, Energy and Environmental Studies http:www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t72tank.htm which states The T-72 has the same integral smoke generating capability as earlier T-54/55/62, tanks, and variants have been observed with smoke grenade projectors mounted on the front of the turret. Another source from those pesky Russians, why look at the smoke launchers listed. http://www.vojska.net/military/equipment/tank/m-84/default.asp Then we have the Germans with photos of their T72s. Note the smoke dispensers. http://www.lexikon.fungamebtl.de/lexikon/land/t72/en_t72/en_t72.html Janes even states the the T72 has smoke dischargers on BOTH sides of the turret. Another photo: http://www.army.lt/armor/t-rus/rus30.html Also found sources from Finland, Isreal, Hungary, etc, which also state the T72B had the smoke dischargers as shown in the game. The Russians moved them part-way through the T72B production run. Rune

And see my reply to you. Those are the actual Russian designations. You refer to the T-72B1 and not the first T72B. Rune [ March 09, 2005, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: rune ]

It could be a t-72b, as there are multiple versions of the t72b. You are referring to what in the west is called the t-72b1. For example: T-72 First version of the T-72 to enter production with early versions having searchlight mounted on left as well as the standard production type TPD-2-49 coincidence rangefinder sight that protrudes from the turret. T-72K Command version of original T-72 with additional communications equipment. The K-series tanks are essentially the same: company Ks having two R-123M or R-173 radios, and battalion/regiment versions have one R123M/R-173 and one R-130M that has a 10 m antenna when erected. T-72A This has the coincidence rangefinder replaced by the TPD-K1 laser rangefinder. Called T-72M in the former Warsaw Pact with export versions being called the T-72G. Also has plastic armor side skirts in place of the flipper type armor panels found on the earlier models. This skirt covers the upper part of the suspension with separate panels protecting the sides of the fuel and stowage panniers. T-72AK Command version of T-72A with additional communications equipment. T-72B This model has the thickened frontal turret armor and is commonly known in the United States as the Dolly Parton. It also has improved engine cooling and a plate of 20-mm appliqu? armor added to the top of the glacis plate. The T-72B with 12 smoke mortars on the turret front is referred to as the SMT M1981/3. The SMT M1984 has its snorkel moved to rear aft of stowage bin, and a third stowage bin added on left side of turret. Late models have appliqu? armor matting on turret roof and either side of the driver's station. T-72BK Command version of T-72B. T-72BV This is T-72B with explosive reaction armor packages fitted to the hull and turret. The glacis plate is covered with a layer of single ERA blocks while the turret is covered by one, two or three layers with one being the more usual. A single layer of ERA also covers the sides of the vehicle to provide protection to the suspension and upper sides of the hull. There are two types of former Soviet ERA blocks. First the standard shoe type box which has overall dimensions of about 25.5 cm by 13.5 cm and second the wedge type block. Both of these often have an arrow indicating the way that they should be installed to provide the maximum degree of protection. The standard ERA block has an ERA element (two plates of steel separated by explosive) which can be positioned in one of two positions for maximum protection while the wedge type has a fixed ERA element. T-72B1 This is the first T-72 with NDZ armor and externally identifiable with the considerably thickened turret frontal armor, this is referred to as the Super Dolly Parton. The SMT M1988 has eight smoke mortars on left side and has explosive reactive armor and larger gunner's night sight housing. The T-72B1 is fitted with the fire control system for the 9M119 Svir AT-11 SNIPER missile system. T-72B1K This is a T-72B1 with additional communications equipment for use in the command post role. T-72B1V This is a T-72B1 with explosive reaction armor packages fitted to the turret and hull. T-72S This is an export version of the T-72B1. T-72BM This is the T-72B1 fitted with 2nd Generation Reactive armor, similar to that on the T-90. M-84 This is a Yugoslav version of the T-72 which is almost identical to late production Soviet T-72 with two banks of smoke dischargers mounted on the turret front, seven on the left and five on the right. The main areas of difference are in the computerized fire control system and vehicle optics. The M-84 has a distinctive mast containing sensors fitted on the forward part of the turret to the immediate rear of the 125-mm gun. An improved version, the M-84A has a number of improvements including a more powerful 1000 hp diesel engine which gives a higher road speed, greater acceleration and improved power-to-weight ratio, and improved armor protection. TR-125 This is the Romanian version of the T-72 which has a number of significant differences to the original Soviet MBT. The TR-125 weighs 48 tons, due to increased armor protection over the frontal arc. The TR-125 has seven road wheels of a different design, a new one piece skirt and is powered by a more powerful 880 hp diesel engine. PT-91 Twardy This Polish variant of the T-72 has a number of improvements over the earlier T-72M1. The major improvements include: Polish-developed explosive reactive armor Type ERAWA-1; four laser warning receivers, which warn the crew if they are being targeted by a laser rangefinder or designator; new computerized fire control system, with optional thermal sight; new passive night sights; improved automotive components including 850 hp engine, rubber bushed tracks, and a modern fire detection and suppression system. T-72AM Banan The T-72AM Banan is an advanced T-72 design, equipped with the same 6TD-2 diesel engine (1250 hp) as the T-84 (see T-84 in T-80 Variants section). The vehicle is covered extensively with early generation ERA tiles and thus looks very similar to the latest Russian T-72s. T-72 with PW-LWD mine clearance system The Polish Army has deployed a tank-mounted rocket propelled mine-clearing system on a T-72 chassis. This system consists of a rocket that is attached to a 170 m explosive filled hose. The complete system is carried in a boat-shaped container that slides onto a special mount on the hull top at the rear of the vehicle. The vehicle halts on arrival at the minefield, and the PW-LWD system is fired. The explosive hose falls to the ground and is detonated, setting off any mines in its path. MTU-72 AVLB The FSU has deployed an armored vehicle launched bridge. Hope this helps. Rune

Notice, Ladies and Pond scum of the MBT, that instead of taking his medication and trying to remember something, Joebob Shaw just rambles on in a different direction. This just proves that Logan's Run was correct, and Joe should be put out as a target to shoot at. Berli, I know I expect a lot from pure evil to actually read, but it has been posted all over. The 19th I will have a get together at my home to demonstrate T-72 and to drink alochol and kick Seanachai in the nads, depending on when he arrives in Chicago and if he can break the roadblocks. Rune

Bump Still a go for the 19th. Rune

Bump, still a go for the 19th, but no, no discussion on CMX2. Rune

Where to begin? Joebob Shaw, yes, I should of assumed with your advanced age, that you forgot I have a wife and Children. Remember, Chris was making scenarios 5 years ago at the age of 11, and they ARE STILL BETTER THEN ANYTHING DESIGNED BY YOU. [Ahem] Isn't it time for you to go get your dopamine pill? As for wife, I have a saint to put up with me, and she isn't a Mormon wife. Lady Moraine, of course I still love you, as you are one of the Ladies of the Pool. I admire the way you carry on, while having the baggage known as Hiram about your neck, like the old man of the sea. No Good Cavscout, ye who comes from the land where cheese is not a food, but a wearable hat, how could I forget you? [Not that I haven't tried in multiple bouts with alcohol, but it only dulls the senses, kinda like being 37mm. Talk to your commander, how often does one get to drive a T72, while drinking beer and NOT be in the Russian Army? Seanachai, the Illinois National Guard, State Police, and Chicago Police have all been notified, and roadblocks are being planned. Let me know the exact date you are approaching this fair city, so that I may sound the air raid sirens and the people can take cover. If you won't be around on the 19th, just let me know and I will allow the home to be used for a party sooner, and warn the wife and Elvis. Elvis, not you of the bolded name, but the Shar Pei my wife had rescued was named that. Old, wrinkley, it seems to fit. Berli, let me know if you are coming on the 19th and or maybe sooner if we get a schedule from the gnomish one. Failure to show, and I could be bribed to give the bottle of Scotch, which cost more then Joebob makes in a year, to the gnomish one. Bauhaus, come out of hiding, now is your chance with the gnome. Nidan1, First, it is an excellent comedic musical, it got the Rune's thumbs up. However, may you take a taxi in NY, and that is all that needs to be said. Anyone else in the Chicago area check in so that I may make arrangements. Ahhhhhhhhh....almost forgot, speaking with Steve and the Brain in the Jar, we have determined a way to place anti-gnomish code into CMX2. The point was brought up how do you make someone that sucks playing suck even more, but we have a plan, and no, it does NOT involve sheep [sorry Mace} Rune

Seanachai , You pillock, of course I am not reading your drivel. I am out east, in the land of Noreasters, meeting with those who shall not be named. We are discussing the anti-gnome code that shall be added into CMX2. Yes, yes, I see you are coming to Chicago, I will try to be sure to be out of town then. On the other hand, I do have Berli's bottle of Scotch still being held for ransum. However, the thought of having you near my wife and children scares me to no end. Heck, my Shar Pai may even lose its wrinkles after seeing you. All this being said, I am having an open house for T72 on the 19th, so let me get back home and I will contact you. No Good Cavscout, what are you waiting for me to do? Are you coming down to see T72? I'll be back on the forum more when I get home late Friday. Rune

Ardem, You do realize the captured T-34 is NOT the same as the generic Russian one? Cupola for better viewing, different ammo, and etc. Rune

Lars, Congrats! and to show you what marriage will be like, I am sending you a scenario. Yes, yes, it will cause less pain, but least it gives you the general idea. Rune

Seanachai, It wouldn't have to do with a scenario where I made you an Aussie, and left you in the sand with your boys in hand now would it? Could it be because I called you the Joebob Shaw of feedback? Never sending one? Could it be because I have an extremely expensive bottle of Scotch waiting for berli at my house, and hence, I don't get Mondays? It matters not. I still say: Boo>Nidan1>Seanachai but that REALLY isn't saying much. Rune

Anytime dear, but what did Hiram send you? Hiram! HIRAMMMMMM!!!! I have a monstrosity to be re-tested, are you up for it? Anyone else, want to test one, it is the night/70 turn monster scenario. Want to see how it plays out 2 player. Rune

Actually will send out my address when time is a little closer. Windy City and Wartgamer so far. Mr Spkr, check your emails. Rune

Yep, and it is posted in there too. I have permission to post in here, since we usually wind up with people playing CM anyway after the preview. Rune

It is about that time again. A sneak peek at T-72, Down in Flames, and maybe another. [No, there will be nothing on CMX2] March 19th, at 11:00 AM. This is in Chicago only, because that is where I live. Let me know here if you are interested in attending. Rune

It is about that time again. A sneak peek at T-72, Down in Flames, and maybe another. [No, there will be nothing on CMX2] March 19th, at 11:00 AM. This is in Chicago only, because that is where I live. Let me know here if you are interested in attending. Rune

Not ont he same screen, but we had side by side computers playing the same tank. Should also be possible with internet play. Rune

try a Series of Misfortunes from the Companion Book, available as a free download here. Rune

The Beta testers have already been selected. Rune

Oh give me a break. I suppose you never played Germans either. Rune