Michael Dorosh

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: You can buy a completed model on e-bay if you want to blow the cash: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=542113375 It is done very nicely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Holy Mother of God! 117 dollars? I just saw this kit collecting dust at a local hobby shop a day after Christmas! Wonder if it is still there....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silver Stars: Actually as for the use of 60 MM shells bieng used without the Tube...... A book I own, "Heroes of WWII" describes a brief history of a few of the CMH winners of WWII. One was a Charles E. Kelly, of the 36th Infantry Division. While he and several other soldiers were surrounded by a counterattack, they ran out of grenades. So Kelly pulled the pin and the safety lock, tapped the shell on the window sill to remove the secondary pin, then lobbed it at the oncoming german positions. so while i doubt it was a common tactic, it has at least been documented as bieng done in real life.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't think that was in dispute - but thanks for pointing it out. I have heard the evidence you cite before which is why I mentioned it was indeed possible. Thanks for the reference. The question, to respond to the other posts, is not that the Americans were portrayed as heroic - but that the Germans were portrayed as complete morons from start to finish. I enjoyed the movie a great deal and would not participate in discussions this many years later if I had not. But to answer the original question of this thread - was it realistic - the answer is mixed - yes with regards to portraying the effects of combat on the human body and mind, absolutely freakin' not with regards to military history or tactics. Which is a shame, considering the money and effort they expended to get the small details right - a clear case of not seeing the forest for the trees. I thought Upham's cowardice was extremely well done - second only to Miller's break down at the radar site. Probably the best crying in cinematic history. No joke. But I guess if you buy the ridiculous premise of the movie, you are pretty much obliged to buy into everything else that comes along. My personal favourite is The Bridge at Remagen. There are some phoney "cinematic" scenes in there, too - like the barge on the river - but for the most part the movie captures the feel of the last days of the war very nicely, and presents an extremely balanced view of the fighting around the Remagen bridge. Like SPR, it was touted as "based on a true story" though the details have been altered to such a degree that any similarities between the movie and anything that happened in real life is pretty much co-incidental. Some really good acting in it, from George Segal (Just Shoot Me), Ben Gazarra (Jackie Treehorn) and Robert Vaughan.

Okay, we'll try the other server. http://members.home.net/canuckmain/cmus.htm You'll be disappointed at having to wait for this, btw.... [This message has been edited by Michael Dorosh (edited 01-21-2001).]

The mod on the page below will allow players to backdate their US Army uniforms to a pre-1944 look. Remember to backup your original files 5001 through 5004. Simply unzip the files in the zip file and save them in the bmp folder (like I need to tell anyone here that!) Let me know what you think. http://wargames.freehosting.net/cmus.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: ok....before i release it, are their any options you mod whores want? Different unit insignia options, a dead german tied to the side...anything? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> With regards to the Sexton? Yeah - come up with a way to put CT in front of the vehicle's war department number so that it looks the same reversed - ie on both sides of the vehicle! What about Allied air-recognition panels (ie the orange ones)?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: I always thought tiger's Sherman Jumbo and Firefly had way to much extra track, and that no tanks would actually carry that much extra track. I was wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, my picture is at a free hoster so they won't let you see it. :-( Thought I could get away with it. If you look at the new history of the South Alberta Regiment, they have lots of pictures of Shermans plastered with extra track. It wore down the drivetrains, but most Sherman crews figured it was more important to make it as far as the next bend in the road without getting brewed up, rather than worrying about adding 500 miles to their vehicle's life.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilhammer: Saw an interesting tactic not possible in CM, the detonation of a minefield with 60mm mortars. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Tactics in movies are not necessarily possible in real life, either....witness the Hawkins mines cum claymores in SPR.... IMDb is really a gem - by the way, was Bob Newhart talking on a field phone in this movie?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheDesertFox: Shadow 1st Hussars, Looks great, Perhaps you would love to check the following pages for canadian markings: http://www.mapleleafup.org and : http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104/links2.htm and especially Cris Johnsons excellent site: http://www3.sympatico.ca/chrjohnson/index.htm cheers Helge P.S.: Don´t forget to contact Gordon Molek <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have info on Canadian infantry unit markings at if you ever want a reference for those. http://www.canveh.freehosting.net/wwiiveh.htm I've put up some lo-res vehicle markings at my combat mission mini-website; I've been thinking of doing markings for Sextons but haven't had the time to research them. I'll be interested in seeing what you come up with, Shadow Hussars... I would definitely lose the red/white/red though - Ken Bell has some nice photos of Sextons in his photo books (he was a photographer in NW Europe in WW II). If you think I can be of any help to you, feel free to email me.

I put up a low-res Universal carrier mod; am currently working on high res - Hussar, or anyone, do you know much about Canadian paint schemes? The Wasp Carrier I inspected from the Guthrie collection, as well as most softskins in his collection, were more brown than green. The Mickey Mouse camo on your Sexton was used by the Brits, and I think also by certain Canadian vehicles types - the Sexton may have been one of them - but was the Mickey Mouse as common as brown? Any idea?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: No, it's not. The Candian Flag didn't even exist back then. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The red and white is a British recognition symbol - it was used by Canadian vehicles in Italy. http://members.home.net/canuckmain/

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyrano01: The tactical use of Universal Carriers is an interesting one. My understanding, possible misconceived, is that tactically the carrier platoon was expected to fight mounted or dismounted as needed. Essentially this gave the commander a very mobile platoon of 4 sections each section having 3 Bren Guns and 6 Riflemen (or 9 if the Driver/Mechanics dismounted, don't know if this was SOP)plus access to a PIAT if needed, albeit at the expense of one of your guys putting aside his personal weapon. Finally I should add that I have read accounts of Universal Carriers being pressed into service for all sorts of supply carrying, casualty evacuation and other portage tasks. Whether these were part of battalion carrier platoons or other units I can't say. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There were more than just carrier platoon carriers in the infantry battalions. The mortar platoon had six more to carry the three inch mortars in, and the AT platoon had six as well. Some COs may have had one instead of a jeep or halftrack. The RSM and CSMs are oftened cited as carrying supplies in them, and evacuating wounded, as you suggest. I don't know if this means they were using the carriers from the carrier platoon, or if they were extra to establishment (sometimes extra vehicles were "acquired" while on campaign), or were actually part of the war establishment (sorry, I mean to say OOB). I have some photos and info of carriers on one of my websites - see http://highlanders.freehosting.net/carriers.htm for a picture of carriers pulling stumps! Not exactly relevant to CM, but they were used for a variety of purposes.

One final unnecessary point - the German Tiger had interleaved roadwheels (look at your hi-res bitmaps again boys) and the T-34 in SPR obviously did not. How did the T-34/Tiger track link make it to the Alamo I wonder? It is on the sandbags near the detonator.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson: Also, isn't the full name Kettenkraftrad, usually shortened to just Kettenkrad? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> To be really technical, I thought they were the Kleines Kettenkraftrad. But as far as I know, there was no Grosse Kettenkraftrad so the distinction seems unnecessary.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred: FAQ and very simple; this kind of movement tactic is not implemented in CM. It will be AFAIK in CM2-Beyond Barbarossa... and btw, making holes in european buildings was a time consuming and not too easy job, to get a whole squad+support weapons from building to building... Fred [This message has been edited by Fred (edited 01-19-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In case anyone cares, the Canadians called that "mouseholing" and I believe other nations referred to it as such also. The Canadians first used the techique at Ortona in December 1943, though they did not invent it by any means. I'm sure other nations used it first. But it was definitely employed at Ortona and afterwards whenever the Canadians found themselves in an urban setting.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franko: Okay, to anyone who says that the last battle scene was "unrealistic" because the Germans advanced with armor into the town has not done their homework. First, it may have been "stupid", but that does not make it "unrealistic". In other words, in reality, Germans (and other armies) did stupid things. Remember that Panther company that entered the twin villages during the battle of the Bulge (12th SS no less), and got slaughtered? They had no infantry support, either. Morons? yes. Realistic? Yes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Have you ever heard of an entire company of infantry run down the middle of a street - and without a single lMG, no less? I've already cited the example of the recce commander at Arnhem bridge, so you have a point - but too many of those stupid things in a single movie make the whole thing unbelievable. The armour in the street one could forgive, the MG in the middle of nowhere one could forgive, the extremely stupid German infantry running around one can forgive, but added up all together - is there anything the Germans did RIGHT in that movie? Or the Americans for that matter? Hawkins mines as claymores, 60mm mortars without the tube - all possible on their own (maybe - not sure about the Hawkins) but when all rolled into one - nah.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Offwhite: Or an unavoidable reality of filmmaking, that some excellent material nevertheless ends up on the cutting room floor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I helped train the military extras for Legends of the Fall - you are more correct than you know. I think the director made the right choices with that movie - it wasn't a war movie after all - but it was still disappointing to see all that really great footage never make it to the big screen - and see the other really avoidable errors make it (like putting the wrong date on the battle even though it had nothing to do with the story one way or another)... In the end, movies are just movies. I'm grateful that SPR resulted in so much more awareness among the general population of what veterans actually went through - it increased awareness in Canada just as much as in the States. The vets deserve the attention.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav: The salmon in the bottom of the boat are in progress. Too bad you can't do 3D water tiles with leaping fish. I tried to get a registration number on the back, but it was way too blurry to read. Gustav would be even worse. Besides, the outside bow is the middle of the outside stern, so the bow would say "tav" on it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Make it a hi-res mod, you big silly! Sad to say, I actually like it. Maybe BTS will add an Evinrude to the back in their program code? I think we, as the gaming community, should insist on that.

Does this not already exist - ie Fanatacism?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Yes, in some ways a commander would be able to cater his force to a particular circumstance. But this was generally only possible when the defense was preplaned far in advance, with priorities for units, and the attack was conducted in a preplaned way. The overwhelming vast majority of combat situations at CM's level did not fall into these categories. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I appreciate the reply. I've been doing an in-depth study of one Canadian battalion at war for a website - http://highlanders.freehosting.net/ and I do respect your viewpoint. From my limited perspective, however, on the face of it, it seems to me that most of the battalion's major battles were indeed preplanned over terrain familiar to them at least by map if nothing else. Really, though, the OB of the battalion was not subject to change - but the amount of support was (and again, to a limited degree - invariably they would have had Shermans or wasps, with 25 pounder artillery, 4.2 mortars from the div MG battalion, 17 pounder AT guns frmo the div AT battalion, etc.)n - and the fiddling that game players make assigning PIATs over 17 pounders, etc., simply would not have occurred. They took what they could take - your rarity system sounds like a winner, and I look forward to seeing it. As part of these major battles though, I can definitely see your point - they would have devolved into smaller, confused, actions. Look at a hasty counterattack by German infantry, say, after a village has been taken. They would not have had time to recce the ground, and like you say - if all they had was AT guns, well, tough, they went in with them and did their best. A last thought - perhaps one of the QB options could be "set piece" battle - where you DO get to survey the terrain? Don't know if there is any merit in that but I will throw it out for discussion. The majority of infantry actions were not setpieces - but those set pieces that did exist set the stage for the other, smaller battles that all big ones devolve into. Then again, perhaps that is what Operations are for? Any chance of Quick Operations?

Incidentally, here is the URL for a board dedicated to SPR and similar topics - if anyone wants to continue this discussion there, it is the best place to go. http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/60599

Time for some mods - I haven't read the whole thread yet, but this is intriguing - tankgirl if you really want to do wavs, I don't see why the Volksturm squads couldn't be used as partisans - except for the fact that you can't make them fight against other Germans! I suspect their weaponry (except Panzerfausts) would be similar. Are there any Allied units one could convert?The Dutch and Belgians also had "partisans" that fought alongside the Allies (That is, the ones who hadn't joined the SS to fight in Russia!) The problem or armament rears its ugly head though. Volksturm would be ideal. Pity you can't turn them on other Germans. BTW - and OT - I was fooling around with CM last night, showing a friend what can and can't be done. He was truly impressed. For giggles we did up a Napoleonic uniform and dressed our Volksturm up. Poor devils! Also designed a quickie Dieppe map which proved truly entertaining. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skott Karlsson: Oh, man... I posted about women possibly being in the CM2 and the thread turned ugly and got locked down. Lets hope it stays clean on this one. ~Skott~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jasoncawley@ameritech.net: I disagree with the common statement that the first 20 minutes were realistic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Absolutely right on all counts. I think they should have made Miller and co. come in on the 5th wave - the ramps open and what do they see? Hundreds of dead GIs, and more just sitting doing nothing! It was teh Rangers that got things started on Omaha (in part) - the motto "Rangers Lead The Way" comes from that day, as you may well know. It would have been a bit more real to have Miller and company save the day after the GIs were already floundering for a few hours. Excellent point in another post about people doing unpredictable things in comment - backed up by a good example. I still think the SPR scene was obviously staged for cinematic effect - which we all know to be true. The Germans running down the middle of the street in Ramelle confirms this - there was an experienced SS recce commander at Arnhem who simply drove across the bridge and got his ass handed to him....so it did happen. But too many of that kind of thing in a movie just kills it and does a dis-service to the guys who were really there. For showing true terror and the effect of war on the human body and mind, SPR is unparalelled. It could also have been a lot more.

Excellent posts, both of you. I too would like to be able to see the terrain before I purchase my forces, which would be realistic - any battalion commander may not have had a choice as to what supporting units he would use - but he would almost always send a recce in to determine which battalion subunits he would commit to an attack.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: This is a total nit, but I remember when Ryan blew up the HT I thought that Miller and Co. would have gotten waxed by Ryan and Co. After Ryan zaps the track, Miller and his guys go running in and kill off the surviving Germs. I am betting though that the moment they ran around that track they would have been lit up by Ryans scout team. They had no idea there were other Amis around, and they were almost certainly jacked up with rather itchy trigger fingers. Jeff Heidman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Here's a better one for you - your halftrack gets zapped with a bazooka - what do you do? Personally, I would crawl - CRAWL mind you - away in the tall grass until I could get my bearings and determine where the enemy was. Why do the Germans in SPR simply bail out and start running willy nilly towards the camera? Answer - to provide a "jump" scene when Miller goes scampering off to the other side of the halftrack. Why didn't Ryan's squad shoot the Germans taht jump out at MIller, come to think of it? Maybe they were reloading, or wisely crawling away from their position - which they gave away with the backblast of the bazooka. I don't think Ryan's squad not shooting is a nit - but the Germans running around like retards definitely was.

Outstanding post, Engy. The only thing I would disagree with is that while some squads would indeed bring all available firepower to bear, the wartime memo reprinted above raises the other possibility - many enemy troops would simply flee or give up rather than face a flame weapon - I have seen it referred to as the most feared weapon on the battlefield - in Roman times as well as today. Also note how many gallons it took to produce a single enemy mortality - it would seem the game is modelled quite well. Don't forget the icons on the screen are a lot bigger than they should be (so we can see everything) and that even in relatively "open" ground there is a lot of places for a 10 man squad to hide themselves or find cover - flame is as "dumb" a weapon as an aerial bomb - it will not seek out targets, it will only go where the human operator points it. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by engy: "Pending" flame attack? As in, I see a flamethrower about to let loose at me? The psychological effects of that would be every single man in my squad firing everything he has in the direction of the flamethrower team. [<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>