Average Height of German and Russian Troops

[stikkypixie]

I've done some extensive research and have found this picture of the notorious Hamstergrenadiere.

Fearsome indeed!

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally posted by stikkypixie:

I've done some extensive research and have found this picture of the notorious Hamstergrenadiere.

Fearsome indeed!

I think you've fallen victim to the propoganda ploys that the Germans reverse-engineered from their experience at Normandy and later used themselves on the Eastern Front. That hamster is obviously an inflatable.

[37mm]

I have always considered that one of CM's greatest weaknesses is its undermodelling of the Soviet Union’s Asiatic troops.

These troops would have had a shorter average height conferring numerous practical advantages.

Shorter men have less body mass so will require less food & water easing the logistical strain in supplying these troops.

Also because less food is required more ammo can be supplied this means that such troops will not only fight for longer but also end up more experienced in the use of their weapons.

Such troops will be able to dig adequate foxholes in a much shorter (excuse the pun) length of time facilitating rapid tactical flexibility.

Short men get all ‘uppity’ about their height & as such are more likely to fight aggressively particularly against troops who are taller than they are.

Shorter men will obviously be hit less often but also if they are hit by large caliber weapons they are more likely to be killed instantly (as a greater proportion of their smaller bodies will be obliterated) this will help ease the strain on their medical units.

Clearly though this is another sympton caused by CM failing to deal seriously with the issue of logistics.

[Zarquon]

Over four years of board history, a million posts, and nobody ever came up with this critical shortcoming of the CM infantry engine before...

- When moving perpendicular to a slope, will the taller soldiers fall over more easily? Obviously not. But is there a statistical relation between height and body mass/equipment weight distribution, i.e. center of gravity? Definitely!

The current engine does not seem to model this, though. IMO this does not neccessarily influence a battle on the flat Russian steppe but historically, it was a decisive factor in mountainous terrain like Italy, where the notoriously fat German and Italian rear-echelon sergeants were severely restricted in their movement.

- The length of your arms is a function of overall height and limits the distance you can throw grenades or molotovs. Not modelled yet.

- Being tall neither gives a bonus in close combat, nor for taking out tanks, although taller soldiers can climb on a tank's turret much quicker (to drop grenades through the commander's hatch).

- Most importantly, there is still no patch that prevents the extremely gamey use of increasing troop size (by pressing Shift-C). At +4 size, troops become notably indifferent to small arms fire and although they become exhausted much quicker, they run at a completely unrealistic speed!

When looking closely at the screenshots of JasonC's infantry advance tutorials, you'll see how he uses that bug to his advantage.

[Holman]

What's even worse is the cheat code SHIFT-M by which a crafty player can cause approximately one-third of my troops to suddenly be eliminated from the battlefield! Why does BTS still allow this obviously gamey tactic to persist through three iterations of the game engine??

Equally bad is SHIFT-T, which causes most of the available cover on the map to disappear. This cheat obviously aids the attacker, since my carefully placed units (usually as close to each individual tree or bush as I can get them) are suddenly exposed for all to see.

I have even heard that some players mod their own tanks to be invisible and mine to be bright pink. I ask you, is this fair??

Fix somefink please or do.

[Zarquon]

And did you ever wonder why, sometimes, your troops are being fired at but you don't get even a sound contact? It's because some experienced oppponents selectively turn the sound on and off. Even the dumb AI does it, sometimes.

In a way it is balanced because both players can take advantage of these bugs. But then the game degenerates to a contest of gameyness.

P.S.: And I'd like to see a patch that finally allows troops and tanks to fall off the map edge and get lost under the table, like they did in most serious military boardgames as well as in real life.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Andreas:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joachim:

the Hamstergrenadiere - as often portrayed on this board - had their origins in fighting the rabbits on their home turf but were unable to survive the harsh Sovier winter.

I am sorry comrade, but am I reading you right in saying that the superior fighting prowess bestowed by steeping in Soviet doctrine had nothing to do with stopping the Hamstergrenadiere?

Time for a spot of re-edification, methinks? Just wait, I have a nice hammer here to keep you company down in the coal-mine for the next, uh, 25 years or thereabouts. </font>

[Big Jim]

From what I can see the average height seems to be about 1cm or so- but then I do only have a 17" monitor...

[Zarquon]

Strange - mine are much smaller on a 19". But they seem to grow a little when I move my head closer to the screen! Can't remember if they did this in CMBO, too.

[Pud]

Originally posted by stikkypixie:

Not necesarilly, if one leg is much longer than the other, he would lean over to the shorter side, even to the point that he is smaller than before you pulled his leg.

Thats why these sorts make excellent mountain troops, they can run around the hills (one direction only) with the shorter leg up hill and remain perfectly vertical. If you look carefully and images of Gebirgsjäger you can see this leg length difference.

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Zarquon:

P.S.: And I'd like to see a patch that finally allows troops and tanks to fall off the map edge and get lost under the table, like they did in most serious military boardgames as well as in real life.

Absolutely. And dice - a big pile of 'em that live in the clear areas of the map and occasionally roll into the models, knocking them flying.

[subhadar]

i would not think height under fire is as important as a totally ignored dimension , that is how "thick" is the soldier? after all he'd probably be on his belly alot. thus the hampstergrenadier is indeed a formidable foe

[Michael Emrys]

But not Fatmouse!

Michael

[edgars]

Also, it's much easier to get a tank in turret-down position if the TC is a tall fella.

[Holman]

One of the most egregious gameynesses of the CM engine is the completely unrealistic manipulation of time. I have noticed many times that a player can use the "<<" button to make time go BACKWARDS! I myself have seen tank shells flying BACK INTO THEIR GUNS as a result of this bug. Is my opponent doing this to my tanks during his turns?? I can only think he is, since this would account for the large numbers of AFVs I lose in combat.

I've tried to reproduce this effect but it's hard to do. It only seems to work every other turn or so.

I don't know whether this practice damages enemy units or not because I always play with fog-of-war ON.

Has anyone else seen this kind of cheating going on?

[Zarquon]

No, but it there's been a rumour about a code in the game to turn all your tanks completely invisible and another that allows infantry to walk right *through* solid walls.

[Corvidae]

The MAXIMUM alowed height for Ghurkas is 5 foot 4 inches, the Ghurkas are the best soldiers in the world, their endurance training makes them invincible in bed, thus they can steal women from the enemy, leading to steep declines in enemy moral, i was rejected by the ghurkas because of my height,

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Corvidae:

...the Ghurkas are the best soldiers in the world, their endurance training makes them invincible in bed...

That is correct. It is well-known by now, but came as a great shock to the Axis powers. By their abiity to out-sleep any other force on the battlefield, they could always achieve a decisive advantage. One of their favorite tactics—one that drove fear into the hearts of their enemies—was the sudden nap. Their importance to the Second World War overshadows even The Bomb.

Michael

[Dandelion]

Originally posted by Corvidae:

their endurance training makes them invincible in bed...

Nah that's not the endurance training, it's all in the restricted height. You can get five or six of them in a standard single bed. And it's almost impossible to strangle six gurkhas simultaneously in a bed. I've tried everything but it never works.

The only way to do it is to drop short and heavy paratroopers on them. Takes a while travelling down - seeing as they are so very short - but they land on that bed with a vengeance and after completing the mission they can extract on skis. Seeing as they are so very heavy.

Worked in Bed Fomm.

Dandelion

[37mm]

Once again CM's ignorance of logistics comes into play with shall we say 'leisure supplies'.

Soldiers need not only food, water & ammo.

One of the most important logistical efforts during the battle of Stalingrad was getting the Russians their Vodka ration & this can effect CM tactical situations.

Is that sharphooter drunk (wouldn't be so sharp then)?

Did that Flamethrower unit have a hard night, last night?

Did my T-34 crew fail to get their ration last night meaning they are grumpy (probably resulting in increased command delays).

And of course sexual tension will also effect CM combat situations.

When was the last time my troops were 'entertained'?

How is this effecting morale?

Are the girls in this village prettier or uglier than usual (this may be an important factor for defending a particular village other than its tactical & environmental considerations)?

Are my troops homoerotic, Waffen SS boys...will this improve local morale?

CM's total inability to deal with logistics leads inevitably to these serious shortcomings.