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Zveroboy1

Modding/photoshop problem

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Okay let me just preface this by saying that this thread is really aimed at other modders and people who have a knowledge of Photoshop

So I am working on some mods and I having some weird issues with colours. It is a problem because one it makes it pretty hard to work properly because I constantly have to go back and forth between PS and the game to tweak the colours and two I am not even sure people are going to see my mods correctly.

It is probably easier if I provide an example.

So below is the facade of the building in Photoshop :

J5dS8oVm.png

When I save it as a bmp 24 bits I get this :

pr5QRVim.jpg

Here is the in game view I get :

MKIqvwhl.jpg

The in game view looks slightly different than the bmp but I think maybe that's due to the daylight settings in the editor. I think the biggest issue is when I save as a bmp, because when I save as a png or a jpeg instead, I don't see this colour difference. The png looks exactly like the first picture in this thread.

The PS colour profile I have been working with so far is Adobe RGB 1998. I tried switching to the one designed for my monitor or sRGB but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

How do I fix this?

 

 

 

 

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That would do it. You can set the image file to always open within your chosen color space in Photoshop Preferences. That will save you having to do so manually, each time (economy of labor!).

Monitor calibration would only matter if you made the mod in Photoshop on a separate computer that you were playing CM on. That would be two completely different devices  that would require calibration for color consistency.

Oh, and definitely go with Adobe RGB 1998. Don't let the date fool you- the color space is far larger than sRGB, which is primarily for web-based color applications.

Edited by benpark

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Okay, now you two have me wondering if the colors I see on my mods will look the same to others. I use Corel Pro (updated Paint Shop Pro), and the default color profile is sRGB. At least I don’t encounter Zveroboy’s problem on my own monitor, but I am wondering if others would see some different shades.

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People will inevitably see a different color scheme than you are seeing because it is relative- your monitor has a different calibration/color space than any given other monitor. Assigning a color space (Adobe RGB 1998 is the general "standard") allows for a little more control over that, but due to issues like color constancy you will never see exactly what someone did when they made any given mod.

That said- there is a wide margin here. A given green (for instance) should look fairly accurate (on visual inspection) with a decent monitor with an assigned color space for the file being modded. So set it and forget it, and don't mess around too much with your monitor colors/density if you have manual or software controls on it for things like Photoshop.

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So I thought I understood what was going on, but actually I don't.

When I work with the Adobe 1998 profile, I get the wrong colours when saving my work as a bmp. It only happens with the bmp format, I tried saving as a png, a jpeg etc and the colours are fine.

The ICC profile checkbox is greyed out when saving as a bmp. Is this normal?

The only way I can get the proper colours with a bmp file is by using sRGB.

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48 minutes ago, Zveroboy1 said:

So I thought I understood what was going on, but actually I don't.

 

If you want to figure this one out you're going to have to dive into the deep and dark well of colour management.

My knowledge of it is rudimentary at best and I don't use PS, but what is the source file? Adobe 1998 has a wider gamut than sRGB, so moving from one to the other could shift the colour space. Maybe if you are changing the bit-depth that is also having an effect? The option being greyed out would indicate that in PS you can't embed an ICC profile in a BMP (unless there are other options somewhere that will allow you to do so).

In the end though I have to ask, without being rude, does it really matter, especially for something as variable in hue as a stone building? The best you can do is adjust the colours until you have what you want in-game. Beyond that you have no control over the way others will see them on their hardware. I have two monitors side by side, one standard gamut and one wide gamut, and even the whites on both monitors look different. Without spending hundreds of dollars on calibration hardware and software, there is no way to correct that in a meaningful way.

 

Edited by Offshoot

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Well it does matter a little because in PS, the wall I am working with has a slight red or magenta tint to it and when I save, the bmp appears to be dull with a green colour cast. It is a bit annoying. On the other hand, it translates just fine when I work with sRGB so that's good. I am glad I found a workaround. Now if people with a different monitor see it slightly differently yeah that can't be avoided and I am not too fussed about that.

Now I am sure Adobe RGB 1998 has a much better spectrum of colours and I will use it for all my work outside of CM, but really to the naked eye, sRGB looks just fine for CM graphics.

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Oh thanks for the link, I am going to read what it says.

Probably the worst place to post a preview of what I am working on lol but hey who cares. These are just quick gyazo screenshots. Poor quality but it gives you an idea.

YHwVn4jl.jpg

xHsP9udl.jpg

Edited by Zveroboy1
asdf

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Okay interesting point of view in the linked article even though if I am perfectly honest most of it went way over my head. To be fair, he talks mostly about photography and printing, so maybe computer graphics for gaming are slightly different. Anyway, in my current situation sRGB seems to be the way for combat mission's bmp files and if this guy is correct, this is probably good enough.

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6 hours ago, Zveroboy1 said:

So I thought I understood what was going on, but actually I don't.

When I work with the Adobe 1998 profile, I get the wrong colours when saving my work as a bmp. It only happens with the bmp format, I tried saving as a png, a jpeg etc and the colours are fine.

The ICC profile checkbox is greyed out when saving as a bmp. Is this normal?

The only way I can get the proper colours with a bmp file is by using sRGB.

OK now this is what I though would happen. Yes, BMP files do not have a colour profile. I said nothing yesterday because I have a lot of trouble wrapping my head around colour issues and I didn't have access to my Photoshop PC. I am a photographer who has read fair amount - it is one of those issues that after reading a good explanation you feel like you get it and then a hour passes and you think "wait what, how does that work again" ;)

At any rate what you described is what I would expect. If you are working on something for CM edit in sRGB, stay in sRGB and be happy. If you start editing photographs then cool do some reading...

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5 hours ago, Offshoot said:

On this topic I just found this, which is quite interesting - https://kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

Oh no not his crap. Do not read this! Even if he might get things right in this article it will be largely by accident. ;) Sorry I feel slightly bad about saying that but his articles are bad, really, really bad. If you want to learn never read any of this stuff.

Here are three articles that are from reputable sites. I quickly reviewed them and they offer a reasonable explanation if you care to read more. Like I said the site above might be OK but my rule is I never ever ready Ken Rockwell's stuff because so much of it is bad.

https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167

https://digital-photography-school.com/adobe-rgb-versus-srgb-color-space/

https://clickitupanotch.com/color-space-questions-srgb-vs-adobe-rgb/

 

Edited by IanL
grammar

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I actually don't want to know any of the technical stuff (well, most of it anyway) because just like this issue you're having, Zveroboy, I didn't even know it was an issue until you and benpark started discussing it, lol!  For me, things work as is, so that's all I need to know. I do hope things get sorted for you.  And as for your mod, it's looking good!  Keep up the good work.

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Interesting, because I've never changed my color settings, they were set to North American 2 which is sRGB1996 and uses the color spacing I am pretty much accustomed to looking at. I changed to adobe RGB1998 had a look, and what popped out to me were the reds. Color spacing changes are very much a function of vibrance (or it is the product of). And I incorrectly went straight to the hue and saturation to tweak but no its actually vibrance. If things don't look right and its a color spacing issue in the game view, try a little tweak with vibrance.

 

ColorRangessRGBAdobeRGB.jpg

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11 minutes ago, nik mond said:

And I incorrectly went straight to the hue and saturation to tweak but no its actually vibrance. If things don't look right and its a color spacing issue in the game view, try a little tweak with vibrance.

To be a bit nit picky vibrance does change the saturation - just not the same for all colours. Don't get me wrong vibrance is a great adjustment to make since it doesn't make some colours look crazy as you increase the saturation of the one you want.

https://digital-photography-school.com/vibrance-vs-saturation-in-plain-english/

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5 hours ago, IanL said:

Oh no not his crap. Do not read this!

 

Haha, I'm afraid I am not up-to-date with the innies and outies of the photography world, but I think that particular article is safe to read as it essentially says the same things as the other three you linked, albeit in an uglier design.

Anyway, the take home message is the same: if you are preparing files that will only be seen on a monitor, save yourself some hassle and just use sRGB.

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Thanks for the helpful advice everyone who chimed in. I think part of the issue I had was that my photoshop settings were not configured properly and I had colour profile management or whatever it is called set to off. So when I imported say a base texture it didn't warn me that it was different from my working space profile and that must have caused the issue. That and bmp files like Ian said, not working with colour profiles. So I learned something in the process.

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