Stuart Recce - What's the point?

[JoMac]

2 hours ago, Pelican Pal said:

The general thrust that most CM scenarios are not scenarios where recce units excel I would agree with fully, but in addition to that the 1:1 nature of CM + the rather static animations makes gun turrets more dangerous than they probably should be. The gunners in most vehicles stand essentially upright with a decent portion of their bodies exposed to enemy fire and switch between unbuttoned and buttoned in a rather binary fashion.

 You can see it in this video where both the men firing from the half-track, the man sitting in the track, and the .50 gunner are relatively high up.  More so than would be absolutely necessary. The Bren gunner is firing from a fully standing position when huddling below the armor deck and resting the Bren on the vehicle would likely be more stable. Around the 1:10 mark the gunner engages infantry within 20-30 meters of him who are using an identifiable object as concealment. The gunner maintains an upright position on the gun while engaging and remains upright between bursts. He is not receiving return fire, but if he was it seems possible that he could drop down behind the gun and spray the object with fire dynamically popping up and down to check his fires.

Compare that to this video from a gunner who is taking fire. (2:28 mark or so)
 

After receiving near misses the gunner is only exposing himself to fire a burst at the enemy and is otherwise below the armor. This sort of dynamic up/down action isn't seen in CM and even the base stance in CM is relatively high. In CM the gunner also has to be up on the gun to fire it. In most combat videos you see the gunner will also be on the gun when firing, but occasionally you will see a gunner firing from a position that keeps him largely below the armor.


This is a limitation of programmer/animator time, and I wouldn't expect to see gunners dynamically moving while firing on targets. However, I think its important to understand this  limitation so that the player can make decisions not only around tactics but also with better knowledge of the tool they are using.

Correct...And, If BF enhances the 'Savings Rolls', if you will, to at least represent the fluid up/down motion of Vehicle Crews/Passengers (that happen in RL), then it would be better represented...Of course, this also means less or inaccurate Outgoing Fire (since you are in that Fluid up/down motion)...

The above should also apply for Passengers on Tanks that have that generic sit down posture when receiving incoming fire (in RL, they would be in various ready combat postures)...A better Savings Roll would help them out a little as well.

As it is now, you will have to compensate for these shortcomings and fit it into your Tactical Planning.

Edited May 1, 2018 by JoMc67

[Warts 'n' all]

10 hours ago, Bearstronaut said:

You Brits have an odd sense of humor... and I damn well appreciate it.

I'm not a "Brit" I'm a Limey. But, I'm glad my sense of humour gave you a giggle.

[Baneman]

On ‎02‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 8:41 AM, Warts 'n' all said:

I'm not a "Brit" I'm a Limey. But, I'm glad my sense of humour gave you a giggle.

You're a damn Sassenach, is what you are.

[Warts 'n' all]

7 hours ago, Baneman said:

You're a damn Sassenach, is what you are.

Paddy mumbles into to his pint of black "Yerse won't find many of them in County Meath".

[Oliver_88]

On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 10:42 PM, Warts 'n' all said:

Two, garnering more info either by moving into a hull-down position, or having the crew dismount and find themselves a decent vantage point.

 

On ‎29‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 12:45 PM, ASL Veteran said:

A recon vehicle would more typically be positioned somewhere that a vehicle commander could use his binoculars to scan the terrain for information and in many cases that scanning would probably be done on foot with the vehicle in a concealed spot nearby.

I just picked up CMFI and found it interesting that unlike CMBN the Stuart Recce's available in the various formations have their crews divided into two units, the driver and gunner as one unit, and an three man scout detachment as the other. Just like how the carrier platoons are setup. Do not leave the vehicle empty and unprotected then and the dismounted crew are given better than just five revolvers to defend themselves with should they bump into someone. And you then have the option of bringing the vehicle to the crew instead.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Oliver_88

[Michael Emrys]

17 hours ago, Oliver_88 said:

I just picked up CMFI and found it interesting that unlike CMBN the Stuart Recce's available in the various formations have their crews divided into two units, the driver and gunner as one unit, and an three man scout detachment as the other. Just like how the carrier platoons are setup. Do not leave the vehicle empty and unprotected then and the dismounted crew are given better than just five revolvers to defend themselves with should they bump into someone. And you then have the option of bringing the vehicle to the crew instead.

Very interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

Michael

[MikeyD]

Playing CMSF I often find myself dismounting Scimitar crew so they can scamper up to a building roof to see if they can spot the enemy in the distance. But CMSF is very different from CMBN, where you're liable to stumble on a German mg squad one hedgerow over. The peculiar nature of Normandy terrain make dismounted spotting problematic - and mounted recce even MORE problematic. Most maps you're rarely outside of rifle range. I'm reminded of an anecdote attributed to Patton where, after he lost contact with the enemy during the Cobra breakout, told an aide to hop in a jeep drive up the road until he gets shot, then report back to him about the enemy's whereabouts.