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RepsolCBR

Debaltseve Devils - CMBS scenario

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Hello...

 

My first CMBS scenario - Debaltseve Devils - is a infantry heavy, small/medium scenario using one of the stock QB-maps.

 

The scenario is uploaded to the repository but this function seem a bit slow right now so i have decided to also upload it to drop box...(first time...I hope this works)

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v84khwshvl9s64r/DEBALTSEVE%20DEVILS.btt?dl=0

 

You can download it here if you are in the mod for some infantry fighting...

 

 

This scenario will have...

 

16 AI-groups

15 AI terrain objectives (triggers)

 

Seperatists attack ukranian defenders, 120 minutes.

 

Player commands 2 infantry companies, one recon platoon and 2 russian T72 tanks...

 

 

The scenario briefing:- SITUATION - 

 
For over a week seperatist forces with the help of regular russian troops have tried to capature the town of Debaltseve. This town is important because of its possition right between the seperatist two main axes of advance at Donetsk and Luhansk.
 
As long as the Ukranians are able to hold this town they will be able to prevent the enemy from using the railroad and and also the main road conecting the seperatist possitions around Donetsk and Luhansk.
 
 
Capturing Debaltseve would give the seperatist a continues line and would greatly simplyfy logistics all over the frontline.
 
 
Although the town of Debaltseve itself is still being held by the ukranians the defenders are in a very exposed possition. 
 
Seperatist forces have managed to penetrate the ukranian defences both to the north and to the south of the town and are about to surround the ukranian forces defending Debaltseve. 
 
 
Time is running out however. 
 
Negotiations for another ceasefire is well on the way and are expected to be finalized later today. 
 
The seperatists goal is to have Debaltseve secured before this ceasefire will take effect.
 
 
- MISSION -
 
As the commanding officer of battlegroup Konev you have been given the task to spearhead our new attempt to capture the town. 
 
 
Having recently arrived in this area your battlegroup is at full strenth and much is expected of you. During the last couple of days friendly casualties have been high and your unit is one of only two in this area that are at close to full strenth.
 
Your command consist of two infantry companies and for this battle your forces have been strenthened by a recon platoon consisting of veterans from the previous fighting in Debaltseve as well as 2 of the remaining russian T72 tanks.
 
 
Your objectives are to secure the 2 bridges and then to push forward and clear the town up to atleast phaseline Tango one. 
 
Once this is achived you are to hold in place to allow follow-on forces to advance trough you and push further forward towards the trainstation. 
 
 
- FRIENDLY FORCES -
 
Besides the recon platoon each platoon in this battlegroup have been allocated some demo charges (brech teams) to allow some more flexibility when moving through the streets.
 
In addition to the three platoons your two companies will have 2 machinegun-teams each.
 
The two russian T72 tanks will be assigned to 2nd company.
 
 
These forces should be enough to accomplish your mission but if things goes badly and your attack stalls you may request assistance from the second battlegroup tasked with continuing the attack towards the trainstation.
 
This will not go down well with your comanding officer though. This battlegroup is ment to be held back until you have completed your task and secured the bridges and phaseline Tango one. Their objective is NOT to assist you with your attack...
 
If you decides to commit these reserves or not will be up to you but be prepared for the consequences...
 
 
These reserves consist of one additional infantry platoon traveling in trucks supported by a russian BMP 3.
 
 
- ENEMY FORCES -
 
Debaltseve is defended by regular ukranian army units. These forces have been very well led up until now and have been able to resist all previous attempts to capture the town. 
 
Friendly casualties in this area have been high and the defenders of this place have been given the nickname 'Debaltseve Devils'.
 
Things are starting to look better however.
 
Friendly forces have been able to bypass the town to the north and to the south and they are about to surround the stubborn defenders.
 
This has resulted in the ukranians having a hard time reinforcing and resupplying their possitions in Debaltseve itself.
 
 
It's our best guess that the Ukranian defencive possition in this area will be of about company size. These troops will most likely be supported by some armoured veichles of different kinds but all enemy tanks in this area have already been destroyed.
 
Atleast we hope so...during the last couple of days a number of enemy T64s have been knocked out.
 
What forces the enemy have north of the trainstation is a bit unclear however. They may be able to send some reinforcements to this area. 
 
Better be prepared.
 
We have also heard some rumors of the Ukranians starting to get american equipment. This is however very unlikely. We don't belive that the americans or EU dare to do anything other then to talk tough...Threatening with sanctions and such
 
But yet again...Be prepared !
 
 
- PLAN -
 
Your recon platoon and 1st company will lead the attack. Their primary objective will be to clear the area south of the river and to try to secure atleast one crossing point. 
 
In this area there are two bridges crossing the river and the river itself is fordable at several locations. The T72 tanks though will need a bridge to be able to cross.
 
 
The enemy is not believed to have any significant forces on the south side of the river but some forward observation posts can be expected.
 
Your advance will be more difficult once you approach the river. Here you will most likely come under fire from enemy supportweapons deployed on the other side.
 
 
This will most likely make progress difficult but remember time is limited ! We need Debaltseve in our hands before noon...
 
Do you best to try and secure the bridges or some other crossing point with 1st company to allow 2nd company a smooth crossing once they arrive. Wich should be in 20 minutes.
 
 
2nd company will be supported by two russian T72 tanks. Unless you have been able to secure a crossingpoint already these tanks will give you the firepower you need to get that done.
 
While 1st company is tasked with securing the bridges 2nd company should push on towards phaseline Tango One and clear the town up to that point. 
 
Don't leave the bridges entirely undefended but if you feel that you have some troops from 1st company to spare...By all means..Have them assist 2nd company in their push towards phaseline Tango One.
 
 
As a last option if your attack fails you may call on your reserv platoon to join the battle. This platoon will become avaliable sometimes later today. Hopefully within the hour...
 
 
I hope it will provide a nice battle and any feedback will be very welcome to improve future work...Good luck with the battle !
 
RepsolCBR...
 

 

 

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After some painstakingly careful recon I have taken 4 casualties, didn't want to risk losing any more men so I waited until my reinforcements arrived, saved the game, tomorrow morning soon as I get some free time my tanks are going to absolutely obliterate all known enemy positions,  in particular a enemy sniper situated in a very cunning spot is going to get a real working over, cant wait to put some hurt on him. The map is awesome RepsolCBR, a really bleak atmosphere and it feels like a real warzone in the Ukraine. 

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Thanks, TAKODA

 

Yes, snipers are suprisingly difficult to route out (in a good way) and usually requires close assulting the building to finish them of...Unless you use some heavy hitters to deal with them ;).

 

Looking forward to hear how this end for you...

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Yes - anyone think the snipers and heavy MG's are a little too tough?  I mean, with the volume of fire I am throwing at them, either that building is made out of titanium or their body armor is diamond-coated.  These guys are fighting like suicidal jihadis.  And do heavy MG's always wreck T-72s?  Mine are getting pretty roughed up from what is essentially a .50 mg, and that gunner doesn't seem phased at all by HE wrecking the wall in front of them or shrapnel.  Not sure that this is accurate, but I could be wrong, maybe this is why the pocket stayed there so long...

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Anyone win this one yet?  After rage quitting twice, and taking massive casualties from seemingly suicidal/invicible outposts (who would not rout even when surrounded and pounded for minutes on end with every caliber I had), I surrendered and got a lot at the rest of the forces -- and they seem overwhelming.  Is this a fair attack map, or is it one of those scenarios meant to be extremely realistic but not necessarily winnable?  I saw a ton of blue out there, and even the reserve didn't look like nearly enough troops, tanks or not, to get anywhere near a winning condition on this map.  As a side note, both tanks were completely tore up by the higher caliber MG's, and I wasted all of my HE rounds taking out just one of them.

 

I would love to see a youtube of someone winning this scenario and proving me wrong.

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Hello, Capt. Toleran

 

 

Thanks for you comments...Sorry things did not go to well for you.

 

Maybe the difficulty level is to high...I would be intrested to hear what other people think..?

 

 

I tested this scenario a couple of times...2 full playthoughs with resulting enemy surrenders and i think 4 times to try different ways to get across the river. I tried my best to NOT use my knowledge of the enemy in these playthroughs....

 

I managed to win (whitout the reserv platoon) but i indeed took quiet heavy casulties...My last full attempt resulted in 20 dead and 40 something wounded...Both tanks remained...

 

 

-----SPOILER ------

 

I agree that trying to route the enemy out of their possitions (especially those in buildings) with massive firepower is VERY difficult...Despite the fact that thoose troops are not beefed up with super great stats (moral, experience, leadership).

 

I think that one key to victory will be to not try to route the enemy out of their possitions with long/medium range fire (i tried that also and failed)...Especially on the south side of the river you should be able to suppress (not route) the enemy possitions from a distance and move other troops forward to close assult the enemy...

 

this has proven effective in my playtesting atleast...Even TARGET LIGHT (to save RPGs and such) from multiple possitions have been enough to sufficiently suppress the enemies to allow an assult.

 

 

With regards to the 'ton of blue' on the other side of the river...Yes... It might look a bit impossible when rewiewing the map in the AAR screen but many of thoose troops are triggered to make counterattacks and repossition during the battle to allow you to catch them in the open (atleast that is my intention...)

 

They should be a bit easier to deal with then stationary defenders remaining in some buildings...

 

 

----- end of SPOILER -------

 

 

I hope this scenario did not ruin your day  ;)

 

Feedback like this is good for future work....thanks !!

 

/RepsolCBR

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I'm finding it very difficult to winkle enemy infantry out of buildings, my tank crews were fearlessly engaging them at point blank range but unfortunately I have already lost a tank. This is a really tough mission but that's how I prefer it, I find that the toughest missions are the ones I like to revisit the most.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuWEePmMZEk

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Played the first 25 minutes and it's really well done so far. Great map! I've taken moderate casualties clearing the near side of the river, and my tanks and second company have just arrived and are moving up. That heavy machine gun was a doozy.

 

I like that you've taken advantage of the fact that CM AI is only really challenging when fighting from well-sited static positions. 

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Thanks RepsolCBR, I appreciate the breakdown, it sounds like I was doing it wrong and trying to take them out from long range.  I still find the suicidal last stand behavior somewhat unreal, but maybe that is just a limitation of the AI and nothing you can account for.  I will take a rest for a while on this one and try it again later.

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Thanks for you comments, Chudacabra...

 

Glad to hear your advance is making good progress  :).Please let me know how things end for you...

 

 

I agree that the map is a good one. This is however nothing i personally can take credit for...This is one of the stock QB maps (with very slight modifications). I think we have Marc Ezra to thank for this map as well as most other QB-maps....

 

I have tried to balance the placement of the enemy troops...Some are located as 'good' as i can think of and some other may not be quite as 'perfectly' placed...This is sort of a compromize to get the difficulty level you like...

 

Hopefully i have gotten it somewhat right but as of yet judging by the comments it might be a bit to tricky...Therefore i'm glad you seems to be fairing a bit better...

 

Good luck with the rest of the fight !  :)

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Hello Captain...

 

 

I have had the same experience as you in a number of the stock scenarios...And in this one also in my first playtest...

 

Thinking that using a lot of small arms firepower from different  directions will be enough to route the enemy...Only to find that that is not the case.

 

In previous CM titles this has usually been enough (atleast in my experience) but that does not seem to be the case with CMBS...

 

 

I for one like this 'change'  :)...Requiring the player to close assult locations more often and also to make sure that the enemy possition really is neutrolized before moving on...Several times i have belived that i had defeted the enemy possition only to find that some survivors remained in place to fire on my guys from the rear..

 

 

Once again...Thanks for your feedback and if you do decide to have another go at it i wish you the best of luck...

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Thanks, I was tired and cranky last night and maybe a bit more blunt than was appropriate.  You can see from my current rating here (due to my meltdown on CMBS launch day) that I do that sometimes, much to my chagrin later :P

 

I also think perhaps you are right about difficulty level.  I always play Iron out of principle, but the first time I did Warrior, and maybe I am drastically overestimating my own skillset vs. the difficulty.  My stubborn pride won't let me not do Iron, and I think this is probably one of those scenarios I need to get right to learn and grow.  Thank you again for doing this, and I look forward to other scenarios from you, they for sure are not overly easy ;)

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I don't think the difficultly level has much to do with it.  Certainly not Iron to Warrior - all the things that matter are the same between those three (spotting and artillery).  Obviously going for lower where the artillery call times are different would make a difference and playing Test mode would too :)

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Thanks, I was tired and cranky last night and maybe a bit more blunt than was appropriate.  You can see from my current rating here (due to my meltdown on CMBS launch day) that I do that sometimes, much to my chagrin later :P

 

 

No worries, captain  :)

 

I think that everbody RAGE QUIT an ongoing game every now and then...Not just combat mission...but any game...

 

I apprisiate your feedback...I'm not looking for exclusivly possitive feedback...If something about the scenario is not to the players liking- or seems a bit strange... i like to hear about that to...Not just the good parts (if there are any  ;) ).

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Thank you again for doing this, and I look forward to other scenarios from you, they for sure are not overly easy ;)

 

 

Thanks !  :)

 

My goal is to try and make somewhat challenging scenarios but they should not be TO DIFFICULT either...It's a complicated balacing act  ;)

Hopefully there will be some players atleast that manage to defeat this one and let me know about it in this thread...  B)​ 

 

I had some plans to give the 1st company an AGL but i feared that that would have resulted in that grenade launcher being moved around the battlefield to 'solve' every problem until the tanks arrived... 

 

With my next scenario i will try to get some playtesters to try it out before releasing it...

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I'm having better luck this time taking your advice, and also not trying to fight the whole map at once -- I think that was a big part of my problem, diluting my attack.  I will let you know if I do better by the end of it.

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Maybe the difficulty level is to high...I would be intrested to hear what other people think..?

 

It's very tough. I mean VERY tough. I was stunned at the number of blue icons present on the map after the rage quit. I got down to level one and the Ukrainian regulars seemed to be flipping the bird to my troops. As in Toleran's experience one of my T72 crews abandoned their perfectly intact ride after what appeared to be merely MG fire. The survivors were promptly gunned down after crawling around looking for... a place to die. I felt compelled to LIKE Toleran's posts.

 

Also, if you want this battle to appeal to MP'ers I suggest your provide setup zones for Red.

 

You're a meanie. ;)

Edited by Childress

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One reality this scenario really drove home for me was the caliber change in modern warfare, which for the most part is smaller bullets with less penetration power.  Troops in CMBN could hole up in a heavy building if they wanted to, but a barrage of 30-06 and the 7..92mm German equivalent (as well as 7.62x54R in CMRT, which kicks like a mule if you have ever fired a Mosin or a SVD-imitation Romanian PSG) meant that it was only a matter of time before you caught the right round in the wrong place, or the building slowly came apart.  In this scenario, aside from the heavy MG's and the tank rounds, which really make themselves known once they show up, only the Dragunov's and PKM's/PKP's have the penetrating power needed to really put someone down inside a heavy building vs. what seems like a barrage of 5.45x39 rounds against those walls.  They take much longer to have any chance of getting through some of these buildings, and while the squad now has great rapid-fire ability in the open, in an urban environment, they struggle.  I had remembered it from CMSF, but it had been a long time since I had played that (thanks antivirus programs!) and I had been playing CMBN and CMRT a lot, where urban environments didn't stand up as well to higher-caliber rounds.

 

RPG's and grenades (launched or otherwise) are still of pretty limited use on a lot of the buildings on this map.

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It's very tough. I mean VERY tough. I was stunned at the number of blue icons present on the map after the rage quit. I got down to level one and the Ukrainian regulars seemed to be flipping the bird to my troops. As in Toleran's experience one of my T72 crews abandoned their perfectly intact ride after what appeared to be merely MG fire. The survivors were promptly gunned down after crawling around looking for... a place to die. I felt compelled to LIKE Toleran's posts.

 

Also, if you want this battle to appeal to MP'ers I suggest your provide setup zones for Red.

 

You're a meanie. ;)

 

Thank you good sir for liking my posts here, you have brought me back to neutral and erased some of my self-inflicted shame from bad behavior in January.  I won't forget the good favor, cheers!

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I'm having better luck this time taking your advice, and also not trying to fight the whole map at once -- I think that was a big part of my problem, diluting my attack.  I will let you know if I do better by the end of it.

 

I hope this works for you !  :)

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It's very tough. I mean VERY tough. I was stunned at the number of blue icons present on the map after the rage quit. I got down to level one and the Ukrainian regulars seemed to be flipping the bird to my troops. As in Toleran's experience one of my T72 crews abandoned their perfectly intact ride after what appeared to be merely MG fire. The survivors were promptly gunned down after crawling around looking for... a place to die. I felt compelled to LIKE Toleran's posts.

 

Also, if you want this battle to appeal to MP'ers I suggest your provide setup zones for Red.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback Childress !

 

 

It seems that it is the HMGs that are causing the payers much of the problems...I agree with you guys...I did not think that those 50.cals would be able to knock-/bail  out the T72s. That did not happen in my testing. Sure...They plinked away at the tanks for a short time but did no damage.

 

I placed the HMGs where they are primarely to be a 'problem' for the infantry...Not to KO tanks...I can see that losing some of the armour will make this VERY difficult...

 

If you loose one of the tanks i don't think you have much of an option but to commit the reserv platoon to have any chans at all...this will give you a new HE chucker and some fresh infantry...

 

 

Yes...There are quite a few blue incons on the other side but ALL of them are SPLIT squads and a number of them will do some 'less then brilliant' moves to give the player a chans to engage them in favorable conditions (i hope ;) ).

 

I think that the toughest part of this mission will be to clear the area around the river and get a foothold on the other side...

 

 

This scenario was never intended for H2H play...Even i is not THAT mean...Having a human player command the ukranians would make an attack not only very difficult but probably impossible... B)

 

But your point regarding the set-up zones is a valid one even in singleplayer...I though about adding one but decided for this solution this time....

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