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CMx1 and Classic?


Colin
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Does anyone have any of these games or even demos running successfully within Classic on an OS X machine?

I cannot wait any longer for CM:SF. My copy of CM:BO won't work, it just hangs at loading 3d. I assume it's the RAVE driver that doesn't quite function the same in classic.

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Correct, the lack of full RAVE 3D (hardware-level) support between Classic and the actual underlying OS (OS X) is the culprit. I'm not familiar with any way of getting the CM series to work under Classic (without directly booting into Classic by itself on a different partition).

CMBO supposedly could work in some manner (software rendering at 640x480), but I can't recall the details. Software rendering will be slow and look 'ugly' since the graphics will be displayed at their lowest quality.

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CMBO will use software rendering in Classic, but that only works if you remove the "Classic RAVE" extension. You will need to do this after starting up OS X, because the boot sequence for OS X will detect the absence of the extension and re-install it.

So, what you need to do is start OS X, then remove the extension from the Classic system folder, and then start up Classic. That will get you the 640x480 display size. I've used this successfully for PBEM games when rebooting into OS 9 wasn't practical, but it isn't the greatest experience.

Note to others: This will only work with CMBO. CMBB and CMAK will not run at all under OS X/Classic.

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Hello "tar"!

It seems you're experienced on the mac, so I venture to ask you a question: actually I can play our fav games ONLY starting 9.2.2 from a different partition: the other trouble is about the ATI 9200 board; in detail I'm using a DP 1GHz Quicksilver machine with NVidia Geforce4 Titanium 128MB AGP AND the 'infamous' (as per Classic support) ATI Radeon 9200 128MB PCI as a second screen; this last board is working well under OSX (but no quartz extreme, being PCI), or at least using the ATI Display utils, its name is shown; but under OS 9.2.2 and the latest ATI Display (Gen 2005) it's shown as 'Unknown'!!! It's a pity, since you lose all the subtleties of smoke and dust of the last two modules (I've checked on a ATI 7000 on another Mac and they are shown correctly, the board BEING supported by the utils), and even if the NVIDIA is working fine, to me its textures are less 'CRISP' than the ATIs.... If you have any hint or suggestion, I'll be grateful!

TIA

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ATI Radeons 7000 was the last card not to be crippled with dodgy dust graphics - There is a ATI CM patch which I use for my 9000 to improve the poor smoke/dust graphics but still not as good as 7000.

OS9.2.2 doesn't necessarily need to be on a different partition to OSX system (I've had mine running side by side for years) but Apple advise on a seperate partition. The only problem I ever had was running Norton System Works which trashed my OSX system - Now I only ever use Diskwarrior 3.0.3 for disk /file maintenance (apart from Disk Utility).

Originally posted by Gen Von Television:

Hello "tar"!

It seems you're experienced on the mac, so I venture to ask you a question: actually I can play our fav games ONLY starting 9.2.2 from a different partition: the other trouble is about the ATI 9200 board; in detail I'm using a DP 1GHz Quicksilver machine with NVidia Geforce4 Titanium 128MB AGP AND the 'infamous' (as per Classic support) ATI Radeon 9200 128MB PCI as a second screen; this last board is working well under OSX (but no quartz extreme, being PCI), or at least using the ATI Display utils, its name is shown; but under OS 9.2.2 and the latest ATI Display (Gen 2005) it's shown as 'Unknown'!!! It's a pity, since you lose all the subtleties of smoke and dust of the last two modules (I've checked on a ATI 7000 on another Mac and they are shown correctly, the board BEING supported by the utils), and even if the NVIDIA is working fine, to me its textures are less 'CRISP' than the ATIs.... If you have any hint or suggestion, I'll be grateful!

TIA

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Originally posted by Wicky:

[...] There is a ATI CM patch which I use for my 9000 to improve the poor smoke/dust graphics but still not as good as 7000.

[...]

Hi Wicky, and thanks for the infos: which ATI CM patch are you talking about??? Any link, please...?

The main problem with Radeon 9200 is about being 'Unknown' for the driver, so CM cannot possibly know there is a 9200 ready to show its 'power'... It display full resolution and crisp textures, but no effects... While loading ATI Display using a 7000 you clearly see it's recognised and named accordingly, so CM can use the specific routines for transparencies and effects...

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As an after thought, Wicky, can you confirm you can start your Mac in OS 9, i.e. choosing a different system to start with both using the Startup Disk either from classic control Panels or from X System preferences... Even starting up with the Alt key pressed, I believe you shall have a different physical location (a different HD) to be able to choose a different version of the OS...

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screen1.jpg

Contents of my primary boot HD

screen2.jpg

Start Up Control panel

<a href="http://www.battlefront.com/products/cmak/troubleshooting.html" target="_blank">Problem: I have a Mac with a Radeon video card installed (8500, Mobility 9000, 9000 Pro) and I am getting what looks like psychedelic graphics displayed when playing the game.

Cause/Solution: ATI has just released a Hotfix software update that resolves this issue. The file can be found here: http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4380.html

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hehehehe, there is no end to learning! ;)

Finally I've realised there was no absolute need to have another partition to be able to start another version of the Mac OS Classic/X, though I still believe it's safer to have them separate...

Sorry to indulge in the ATI debacle, at least about the Classic lack-of-support, but my problem is not about the functioning of the board: at least finally, after installing all available latest firmware and Display extensions and Control panel from ATI, the 9200 is working fine with OS 9.2.2, but starting the ATI Display proggy, the board is reported as 'Unknown' where usually you see the 'stylish' title (like 'Radeon 7000'), so you cannot choose any function from the left panels (if I remember correctly there are MacTV, 3D Graphics, Multimedia, etc.) just do not show, but just Informations, where you also get the device's driver aptly called 'Bugsy' from the jockers of ATI...

So the game loads and play fine, except you do not get any effects, as I wrote before...

Again, I can compare directly the look of the game with a NVidia Titanium Geforce4, but CM graphics looks more detailed, less 'anti-aliased' on the ATI...

To resume, I believe the problem would be solved if just the board would be recognised by the driver, as it actually happens under OSX!

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The ATI displays is just a control panel, even if it worked there aren't any settings to tweak relevant to CM. Is your card displayed when you check OS9's 'Apple System Profiler'?

Also I have ATI Displays 3.2 (from 2002) which works...

Picture2.jpg

Ignore OSX look as I run a 'kaleidoscope' appearance theme

[ February 08, 2006, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ]

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Hey Wicky! You've got the point: surely the functions on the left don't matter about the CM's graphic engine, but I suspect many functions are not working because the board is NOT activated, that is in your panel above you'll get just the Info option, and no Radeon logo up above, but just Unknown, so nothing about 3D Memory as well.. I cannot remember which version I'm using of the ATI panels/extensions, since I'm writing from the MS-PC at office, and possibly from the system profiler the board is identified OK... I will check and write you... Would it maybe possible you can send me your Extensions/Control panels to have a try...??? Or point me to the ATI archive you've installed, even though it's for the 9000, and not the 9200, but it may work...

TIA

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When you open the ATI displays it is probably looking at the main AGP slot and seeing the Nvidia card which is obviously unknown. For some reason it isn't looking at the PCI slot and picking up the ATI card???

Presumably it all works in desktop spanning but AFAIK CM will not work on multi monitors anyway. I could be wrong as I've never tried it.

Be interesting to see what your system profiler indicates is going on. Can you access any control panels in your system folder?

As you say CM plays fine, I'd say the ATI extensions are working with the card providing 3D accelleration. Or could it be the Nvidia card displaying the game??? Do you get CM on both monitors (spanned or mirrored) or just displaying on one?

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Hem, first of all I should apologise to Colin, who started this thread just to see it 'snatched' by some shameless intruder like myself :D , but he may as well profit from our presence!!! :cool:

Dear Wicky, after I saw your portrait, I have gained a full 'blind' faith in you! tongue.gif But I have to write you in this last case you're wrong: CM runs without a pro' on a multi-video-card system, to the point you can load it on the NVidia or on the ATI without any fuss (well, in the Display panel you just have to drag the starting screen bar on the monitor you wish to use to load CM)... Finally I was able to grab the Display panel screen on OS 9.2.2 (yes, I also use an Aqua interface Ambient for the Classic, but no Kaleidoscope): when you call this ATI utility, it opens on BOTH screens, but on the NVidia Desktop it just DECLARES it NON ATI screen, while on the 9200 Radeon it says what you see here

http://www.dbline.it/mimg/ati.jpg

viz. Unknown ATI Graphics (HOW CAN I ACTIVATE THE HTML RULE FOR MY POSTS IN THIS FORUM????)

Possibly I would try to install the 9000 controls and extensions and have a try, if you would kindly point me where to get them and exactly which ones you're using (or will you be able to archive them and just send them to me?)...

Again, the ATI card displays the CM game very well at max res, but it has a problem displaying smoke and dust (but NOT fog!): i.e. the dust is shown in its 'thick' and compatible way (so it gets useless). On the other hand NVidia has no trouble at all, but I don't like the way many textures are shown, as if too much blurred in a way (or was it something I smoked or drunk, I don't know?!?); CM load alternatively on one or the other monitor, but since I also have an old Gossamer pumped up and using the ATI 7000, I can compare directly the differences between all the ATI and NVidia cards...

BTW I also need to know since many years what are the differences between Cricket and Baseball, knowing the latter a bit: a friend from Sidney promised me one day to teach me all the Cricket's rules, but that was happening in India some five years ago, and now I believe she should be married and possibly busy with children as well, so she should have forgotten her promise. Do you believe they are playing with the same rules in Corfu too?

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You mention that you used the "Gen 2005" driver for your ATI Radeon 9200 PCI. I'm not sure if that refers to this ATI Retail Update Jan 2005.

I don't if this would be helpful or not, but you could delete (or at least move them out of the system folder) all of the ATI-related extensions and install the latest update (which hopefully has everything needed) and see if that helps in any manner.

That control panel is listing the correct 'core chipset' (RV280) for the 9200, but it is strange that it can't fully identify it with a text string. I'd guess and say that the appropriate text strings in the driver aren't being found that match whatever ID for the videocard it is looking for (probably the "Card #"). The 'Card #' most likely doesn't have an exact match in the driver and thus it comes up as 'unidentified'. However it seems as if the core is being recognized correctly and that is allowing CM to run in 3D on the ATI-driven display.

As for dust and fog looking bad. Originally when the Radeon 9000's came out on the Mac we couldn't get them to work with CM. It took a long time, but a developer finally contacted Battlefront. This developer then released a beta driver to them and voila - CM worked, but the smoke and dust were very blocky in appearance. Unfortunately there was something in the driver code that was too deep to correct for this issue, so we were left with this level of support. So ironically the 7000 series Radeons display everything in CM fine, but the 8500's and the 9000 series both are resigned to blocky smoke and dust.

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Originally posted by Gen Von Television:

Schrullenhaft thanks a lot for the detailed explanation! I still have hope one day I'll be able to use the 9200 in its full capacity under OS 9... I will try out AGAIN what you're suggesting...

As far as I know the Radeon 9200 is only enabled in OSX.
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Hehehehe, thanks a lot Wicky for the links about 'the Cult': I believe only the savages [LIKE ME] can call the Laws as Rules, but still I'm left without so much of a clue: e.g. "Law 41.2--Fielding the ball

This is another case in which the award of 5 penalty runs is to mean that the ball is not to count in the over." I presume you should be born between Land's End and Stafford Upon Avon to grasp the meaning of it all... Maybe the next life?!? :confused:

As a later developement about this subject (CM vs Classic) I made some trials and discovered that after installing the latest (Gen 05?) ATI ROM patch for the Radeon (in my case the 9200), starting under 9.2.2 CM refused to open (it loaded the flash screen at 640x480, and then it appeared the message the screen mode was unsupported); the board still was 'unknown ATI' in the panel. I re-installed the ATI soft (Ext and panels) for the 7000, and it failed to load properly to the finder (was stuck starting up); used Conflict Catcher (damned extensions: how rotten and hateful are they!?) and disabled most of the ATI ext, but no improvements; then I DOWNgraded the ROM to the HotFix for 9200, and re-installed the 9200 standard soft set: conclusion is now the board remains unknown, but again I load CM at max res, even if I'm left without smoke and dust transparencies, even if FOG looks OK... smile.gif

Sorry for the lenght! :rolleyes:

[ February 23, 2006, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Gen Von Television ]

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  • 2 weeks later...
Just now I followed your link and got MAD at those people... Even Quartz under OSX is UNSUPPORTED by default, though this may be the work of the Apple guys: you have to edit the .plist manually to let it function properly under Tiger, and even then it works all topsy-turvy: that is, usually enabling Quartz should slow down animations and such like dvd movies... Well, in my experience, on a Quicksilver DP 2002 with AGP and PCI Graphic boards it worked exactly the reverse: playing a dvd on the ATI pci was almost impossible; after enabling Quartz, it worked faultlessly, thanks God!

Later

[ February 24, 2006, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: Gen Von Television ]

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I'm glad to see someone playing on a Mac. I had to stop playing all Combat Mission games when I got my new G5.

Shucks, darn, fudge, and other comments. I am still waiting for the new engine for OSX and hoping that they will retrofit CM:BO and CM:BB with the new engine as well.

To make it even worse, the game that I migrated to Red Orchestra (an Unreal Tournament 2004 total modification) is going commercial and are orphaning all Linux and Mac players, since they are distributing the game and controlling licencing thrrough Steam.

(More unprintable comments)

So now I'm back to flying simulations.

Sigh.

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