Squatdog Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I have the save files of the three tanks reversing when they were hidden and had clear shots so can send them but not sure if BTS really wants them? Not sure it is a broken game mechanic in the eyes of BTS? I am sure the Beta Test team must have had similar results? Anyway if BTS or a test team member wants the file(s) I will gladly send. I am now interested in why the German tanks went to rattled when the majority of the German Inf were rattled but the American tanks stayed OK but the their infantry were on the whole broken. As mentioned the only difference I can think that might account for it is the loss of HQ's. If time allows I might run some tests to see if it is really down to the HQ loss. You could FRAPs it and upload to Youtube. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I have the save files of the three tanks reversing when they were hidden and had clear shots so can send them but not sure if BTS really wants them? Not sure it is a broken game mechanic in the eyes of BTS? I am sure the Beta Test team must have had similar results? Anyway if BTS or a test team member wants the file(s) I will gladly send. I am now interested in why the German tanks went to rattled when the majority of the German Inf were rattled but the American tanks stayed OK but the their infantry were on the whole broken. As mentioned the only difference I can think that might account for it is the loss of HQ's. If time allows I might run some tests to see if it is really down to the HQ loss. Couldn't really say, but polishing the behavior of the TAC AI is in everyone's interests. With the relative quiet from BFC right now it does appear they may be a bit stretched working on items, but it is worth hanging onto and when folks schedules permit reopening the discussion. I think we are all still struggling to understand C2 and it is definitely not outside the realm of possiblity that some unexpected behavior is showing itself. I'd save as much of the game as you can, zip it up and hang onto to it once BFC is ready for it. I think it is pretty clear they they have several meaty issues on their plate plus a module to work on. It isn't that they are ignoring stuff, it seems more like they simply have their hands full. Any experiments you can do that would narrow the focus would I am sure be appreciated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I wish the TAC AI would withdraw tanks when they are getting hit by artillery or mortars, they just sit there and cop the punishment. I guess the TAC AI needs a threat direction to be able to withdraw from it but usually the tank will be facing towards the objective/enemy so a generic reverse 50 metres would be prefferable to sitting there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I wish the TAC AI would withdraw tanks when they are getting hit by artillery or mortars, they just sit there and cop the punishment. I guess the TAC AI needs a threat direction to be able to withdraw from it but usually the tank will be facing towards the objective/enemy so a generic reverse 50 metres would be prefferable to sitting there. What if it were to take them into LOF of an AT gun? Man I would love it if I could force those Panthers to back into a position that I could line up in advance. Drop a few mortar rounds, watch em roll right into the gun sight. mmm them's good eatin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 I have just spent some time looking more closely at what happened and some observations. 1. The German tanks were linked via C2 via the 1st Platoon Inf HQ which had been killed by lazer 60mms. Hence all the Germans were out of C2 and this I guess could account for the rattled status. Lesson is that perhaps the designer should have made one of the tanks a HQ tank and not linked to the infantry HQ? I will have to check how the American Tanks were set up. 2. I now have some video files but beyond the limit of Flickr and I will see how I can get them down to size. What does not seem right is that in the video I have infantry which are blazing off with small arms at the American tanks with no chance of doing any real damage and really just announcing to the Sherman hey shoot me with that HE you have that I so love.... While the one thing on the map that could take a shot decides that hey that gun can hurt me so I won't even shoot and just pull away... That does not seem right IMO and if there is anyway to tweak this I hope it can be done so that at least the tank will fire one shot before pulling back? Right off to find a place to host large video files, or find a way to edit. I have not used video stuff before so a bit of a learning curve and the good news is FRAPS has overcome my inability with Win 7 to take screen shots... H Update now uploading video to YouTube but will take some time......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Holien, you can send me the save. PM me for e-mail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Link for video sorry no sound to try and reduce file size... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Thanks for the saves. I don't see any particular issue with the retreating armor in these saves. The tanks are out of command (initially), rattled, and watching all the other units in their formation (1st platoon) get slaughtered. Then they are presented with threats to their front that have a high probability of killing them. (You as a player know that you have "surprised" these threats and spotted them first, but the AI does not know this.) As mentioned, the scenario designer probably should not have attached these tanks directly to the infantry platoon, as it made them very vulnerable to morale hits from formation integrity. SDs need to be very careful with how they use the attach "single vehicles" feature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Thanks for the saves. I don't see any particular issue with the retreating armor in these saves. The tanks are out of command (initially), rattled, and watching all the other units in their formation (1st platoon) get slaughtered. Then they are presented with threats to their front that have a high probability of killing them. (You as a player know that you have "surprised" these threats and spotted them first, but the AI does not know this.) As mentioned, the scenario designer probably should not have attached these tanks directly to the infantry platoon, as it made them very vulnerable to morale hits from formation integrity. SDs need to be very careful with how they use the attach "single vehicles" feature. Thanks akd. I wouldn't have even thought to consider the effect of attaching them directly to an Infantry platoon or even a company. I have a lot to learn before I consider trying to create a scenario. I'll stick with doing maps, that's hard enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Thxs for looking AKD I think I had already come to the conclusion that it was just part of the current game mechanics and your confirmation re-confirms that view. IMO the designer should have had the tanks as a separate unit and HQ unit, not sure how that is done as I have not played with picking forces, just designed scenarios. I will post on the thread for Derfel to pick up the point and I hope he will tweak the design. I am still not convinced about any tank crew just pulling back without taking a shot, but if that is the way the game does it that is how I shall have to live with it. Also I need to do more checking on HMG's firing at Tanks and Inf squads. If the tank is buttoned I don't think they should fire at it and I seem to think I have seen quite a bit of that. I need to re-play vids at some stage and double check what I think I have seen against reality. Anyway good to know that you really have to keep HQs safe or as a player you will pay a price which is all fair in a game... Cheers H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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